30 minutes well spent, so very Biblical

[Stan]

[Gail]

Love it!

[Gibs]

Stan,

For me I don't understand a SDA listening to Joel Olsteen. I'd rather hear Pastor Butch Paugh or Texe Marrs or dig up some of J.L. Tuckers or HMS Richards Sr. old sermons.

But to each his own.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gail]

Osteen does have some good things to say. I caught him once giving a sermon on clean and unclean foods. He was doing that work for us :)

[Twilight II]

Osteen preaches a "soft" prosperity message, has always been my impression...

We are also counselled to "judge righteous judgement".

But what is interesting, is that to tell someone not to "judge" in any way shape or form is to actually "judge" them for "judging"...

:-)

[Twilight II]

I wonder what those that promote the "don't judge anyhing" argument, make of the following texts?

Quote:

Mat 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

Quote:

Mat 23:17 [Ye] fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?

Quote:

Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Quote:

Rom 2:20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.

Quote:

Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

[BobRyan]

Matt 7 - do not judge lest you be judged...

Matt 7 - so then you will know them by their fruits. A good tree does not produce bad fruit and a bad tree does not produce good fruit. Not everyone who says "Lord Lord" will enter the kingdom of heaven but rather it is he who actually does the will of My Father.

in Christ,

Bob

[Twilight II]

What God is trying to say to us, is that we should not "judge" those things that we do not know.

What is on someones heart for instance.

But when "action" or "words" reveal the heart, then "righteous" judgement is called for.

What is not biblical, is this "hugging someone into eternity" idea that says all "judgement" is wrong.

That to "rebuke" is evil.

That all "reproof" is evil.

That all "censure" is evil.

Those ideas are totally un-Christian...

Jesus and Paul both pointed out error and sin whenever necessary, as have all of Gods prophets and messengers.

Without "judgement" that would never have been possible...

[Gail]

How do you decide which of your judgment is righteous and which is not?

[Twilight II]

How do you decide which of your judgment is righteous and which is not?

Very simple Gail.

If you hold someones actions up to the Bible and those actions are contrary, then it is a correct jugement.

But if you hold up what you believe is someones motives, then you are on the wrong foot.

But first you have to be willing to have yourself held up to the Bible.

That is the Biblical counsel.

The idea that we are "never" to judge is unbiblical and actually is totally unrealistic, as even the judgement to "never judge" is a "judgement".

[John317]

dig up some of J.L. Tuckers or HMS Richards Sr. old sermons.

Or L.E Tucker's.

Don't SDAs still love those sermons?

[John317]

I really liked it and think Joel is right to condemn gossip and back-stabbing in the church. I would like to see everything he said applied to ClubAdventist.

I noticed that near the end, he said that if people are saying bad things about people we know, we should step up and defend the person being bad-mouthed. I agree with that. I think that's something that's too often missing and should be done more often on the Forum.

While I agree with Joel in what he says in his sermon, I also think we need to bear in mind and practice the following verses in the Bible:

1 Cor. 5:11-13

But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. [12] For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? [13] God judges those outside. "Purge the evil person from among you."

2 Thes. 3:14-15

If anyone does not obey what we say in this letter, take note of that person, and have nothing to do with him, that he may be ashamed. [15] Do not regard him as an enemy, but warn him as a brother.

Titus 3:9-11

But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless. [10] As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him, [11] knowing that such a person is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned.

Titus 1:10-14

For there are many who are insubordinate, empty talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision party. [11] They must be silenced, since they are upsetting whole families by teaching for shameful gain what they ought not to teach. [12] One of the Cretans, a prophet of their own, said, "Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons." [13] This testimony is true. Therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith, [14] not devoting themselves to Jewish myths and the commands of people who turn away from the truth.

[Gail]

Quote:

1 Cor. 5:11-13

But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. [12] For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? [13] God judges those outside. "Purge the evil person from among you."

I can't imagine how believers would want to form anything deeper than an acquaintance with such, seeing as how their mindsets have so little in common...

I don't see how it would be possible. It would drive one or the other crazy, don't you think?