Stan Posted December 3, 2011 Posted December 3, 2011 Some will like this, some will not.. New International Version (©1984) Men do not despise a thief if he steals to satisfy his hunger when he is starving. http://bible.cc/proverbs/6-30.htm Just saying' that's all. If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com
ClubV12 Posted December 3, 2011 Posted December 3, 2011 You know what happens to the thief when they catch him? They don't despise him, they understand and have sympathy for his plight. BUT, if he can't pay for what he stole, he will be sold into slavery to satisfy the debt. Though they might do it with tears in their eyes, he is still going to pay the price. God works the same way, with tears in His eyes, He will in no way clear the guilty. ....just sayin' :)
Stan Posted December 4, 2011 Author Posted December 4, 2011 Have you ever seen true poverty? A dad with kids who have not eaten for days? The people who let this happen should be the ones put in jail. Am reminded of the starvation a few years ago in Ethiopia.. There was warehouses full of food, in the cities there. If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com
M. T. Cross Posted December 4, 2011 Posted December 4, 2011 Have you ever seen true poverty? A dad with kids who have not eaten for days? The people who let this happen should be the ones put in jail. Am reminded of the starvation a few years ago in Ethiopia.. There was warehouses full of food, in the cities there. Stan - to that I will give a great big AMEN
Administrators Gail Posted December 4, 2011 Administrators Posted December 4, 2011 God loves the hungry, too. Solomon was wise so there must be some light to what he said here. It shows mercy, for sure! After you feed him (and his kids) then you can give him some work :) Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.
Stan Posted December 13, 2011 Author Posted December 13, 2011 and if I was the father in this situation? If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com
ClubV12 Posted December 13, 2011 Posted December 13, 2011 What would you do if you were a father in the situation with the starving children in the picture Stan? I ask that question of all, actually, and not in a mean spirited way, but a sincere quest for the truth. What WOULD you do? From the picture I would gather there are many fathers with starving children in the picture. Should anarchy then become the rule of law? Every father, and mother, for himself and his children? Would you conspire to eat the other families children first? The Jews trapped in Jerusalem did. Would you steal food from another family to feed your children and let the other family starve? Would you murder another father or mother to feed your children? How is this situation any different than a group of starving people trapped on a mountain? In a cave? Adrift in a life boat at sea? Or a village, town or group dieing of starvation in Africa? Who will decide who lives and who dies? Who will ration the last bit of food and water? The infamous Donor Party trapped in the winter in California is yet another of MANY examples of how ruthless man can become under conditions of starvation. Does society forgive them for their acts of cannabilism? Can that be justified under such horrific conditions? NO!!! Death, for a Christian, is preferable than life with dishonor. Not my opinion, Sister White said that. A DIFFERENT question this picture address' is what do WE, who have so much do about those who have so little? A profound question, but not one of stealing, vice or dishonor for those who actually face genuine starvation.
BibleOnly Posted December 13, 2011 Posted December 13, 2011 "Not my opinion, Sister White said that." By this, you mean that statement is therefore equal to scripture, better than scripture, what ?
Members phkrause Posted December 13, 2011 Members Posted December 13, 2011 Originally Posted By: Stan Jensen Have you ever seen true poverty? A dad with kids who have not eaten for days? The people who let this happen should be the ones put in jail. Am reminded of the starvation a few years ago in Ethiopia.. There was warehouses full of food, in the cities there. Stan - to that I will give a great big AMEN I second that Ah-men phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
M. T. Cross Posted December 14, 2011 Posted December 14, 2011 Death, for a Christian, is preferable than life with dishonor. Not my opinion, Sister White said that. Where is the honour in letting ones kids go hungery?
CoAspen Posted December 14, 2011 Posted December 14, 2011 There ain't none! There are some Religions, that SDA's condemn, that will let their children die rather than give a blood transfusion. What is the diff?j
ClubV12 Posted December 14, 2011 Posted December 14, 2011 Where is the honor in stealing from another man so HIS kids go hungry and face death so yours can survive? The difference is, you have a choice to make. You can withold a transfusion, or not. What choices do you have in a life boat with others adrift in the ocean? What choices does an African family have when the entire village is facing death by starvation? What choices did the Donor Party have trapped and starving in the mountains during the winter? They could choose to die honorably, or they could choose to kill and cannibilize. What would you choose, CoAspen, BibleOnly? Would you kill to feed your children? "Death before dishonor or the transgression of God’s law should be the motto of every Christian." Testimonies for the Church, Volume 5. (147)
M. T. Cross Posted December 14, 2011 Posted December 14, 2011 Where is the honor in stealing from another man so HIS kids go hungry and face death so yours can survive? There is so many ways to do that without making anyone else go hungery dude..........
Moderators Bravus Posted December 14, 2011 Moderators Posted December 14, 2011 Quote: Where is the honor in stealing from another man so HIS kids go hungry and face death so yours can survive? One more example of the insanity. There are (except possibly in parts of Bombay and Ethiopia) many, many more people who are doing OK than people who are on the verge of starving. Not that hard to pick someone who won't even miss it, to feed your family. Of course working is always a better alternative, but if it was not possible for whatever reason, a rigid morality that puts property values above human life... is just plain insane and evil. Truth is important
ClubV12 Posted December 14, 2011 Posted December 14, 2011 Did you see the picture Stan posted? The starving children. Are you aware of the thousands of people dieing right now of starvation in this world? Not a few isloated cases, ENTIRE VILLAGES, thousands of refugees fleeing war. What options do they have, "dude"? WHO are they going to steal FROM? Some are going to die today, fathers and mothers will see their children expire on the way to some refugee camp. Infants and old people will be abandoned on the way, left to die. What choice would you make, in the lifeboat adrift at sea, to feed your children? Would you hide the rations and let others suffer to secretly feed yourself and your children while they starve? This is NOT some hypothetical question, these things happen, have happened, will happen again to real people, making real life and death decisions. We HAVE addressed the scenario where a starving man CAN steal from those whom he considers "have enough". No man will despise him for that, BUT,,,, I say again BUT, that man will be required to pay for his "crime". And it IS a "crime"! He will be made to repay seven fold and if he can't, he was to be sold into slavery to cover the debt. Sure, I understand his situation, I feel bad for him, I do not despise him, but the biblical way is to pay when the tears are wiped away.
M. T. Cross Posted December 14, 2011 Posted December 14, 2011 Quote: Where is the honor in stealing from another man so HIS kids go hungry and face death so yours can survive? One more example of the insanity. There are (except possibly in parts of Bombay and Ethiopia) many, many more people who are doing OK than people who are on the verge of starving. Not that hard to pick someone who won't even miss it, to feed your family. Of course working is always a better alternative, but if it was not possible for whatever reason, a rigid morality that puts property values above human life... is just plain insane and evil. Exactly, but its so obvious that I did not really think it needed to be stated. I can't imagine not making sure my kids did not get food out of some misguided sense of "honour"
ClubV12 Posted December 14, 2011 Posted December 14, 2011 You guys never answered the question, Bravus glossed over it like it didn't exist. The PICTURE STAN POSTED, HELLO!!!! Who are you going to steal FROM to feed them if your in that village? What WOULD you do? How far WOULD you go?
M. T. Cross Posted December 14, 2011 Posted December 14, 2011 As you glossed over the other questions asked Club. If I lived in that village where there is a long long long history of stavation I would keep it in my pants and not procreate.
ClubV12 Posted December 14, 2011 Posted December 14, 2011 I have glossed over NOTHING!!! TWICE I have stated that IF a man CAN steal to provide for himself or his family he is not "despised". BUT, he will also be REQUIRED to repay for what he has stolen. IS THAT FAIR OR NOT? Don't gloss over the answer, YES or NO? If he cannot pay, SEVEN FOLD for what he has stolen, he was to be sold into SLAVERY for his CRIME. Steal, if you must, but know this, you WILL PAY in some way when your caught, though you won't be "despised". Now back to the question: In countries like Ethopia, "keeping it in your pants" to not procreate is an entirely western civilization concept. There is no birth control available, people ARE going to have kids. Many WILL die whether they have food or not, so they have a LOT of kids so that some may survive. Now the war has started, the entire village has been burned, the food stolen. You, your family and thousands of others are on the road to escape the murderers. Your children are starving. What will you do?
Dr. Shane Posted December 14, 2011 Posted December 14, 2011 Some will like this, some will not.. New International Version (©1984) Men do not despise a thief if he steals to satisfy his hunger when he is starving. What about the government that that taxes the rich so they can feed the poor so they don't have to steal to sastisfy their hunger? just asking... Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted December 14, 2011 Administrators Posted December 14, 2011 The point of the picture is not that there is a risk of those starving children becoming thieves to survive. The point is the sharply contrasting embarrassment of riches shown on the right. Who exactly are the thieves? It is certainly not the children. The crime against humanity is that we have far more than we need whilst millions starve to death. We are robbing them of what they need by hoarding our riches vastly beyond what we need. Stealing the food right out of the mouths of starving babies... A lack of concern for the poor by the overfed rich was the sin for which Sodom was destroyed - See Ezekiel 16:49. "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.)
CoAspen Posted December 14, 2011 Posted December 14, 2011 Quote: We are robbing them of what they need by hoarding our riches vastly beyond what we need.
Dr. Shane Posted December 14, 2011 Posted December 14, 2011 We are robbing them of what they need by hoarding our riches vastly beyond what we need. I don't buy into that. I don't believe our riches are the cause of the poverty seen in some parts of the world. I believe that most societies could be prosperous without causing other societies to be poor. And we are seeing that happen. Many societies that have struggled with terrible poverty are decreasing poverty and starvation as they modernize government, agriculture and markets. Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity
M. T. Cross Posted December 14, 2011 Posted December 14, 2011 I have glossed over NOTHING!!! TWICE I have stated that IF a man CAN steal to provide for himself or his family he is not "despised". BUT, he will also be REQUIRED to repay for what he has stolen. IS THAT FAIR OR NOT? Don't gloss over the answer, YES or NO? If he cannot pay, SEVEN FOLD for what he has stolen, he was to be sold into SLAVERY for his CRIME. Steal, if you must, but know this, you WILL PAY in some way when your caught, though you won't be "despised".
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