Finding the Light?

[M. T. Cross]

I repeatedly see it mentioned here that those of us that have left the church "had the light given too us but we rejected it". I see many other mentions of "the light"

I really feel that is way over simplifying it. There is a huge difference between receiving a message and receiving any light.

Its true. I was an SDA for over 15 years. Raised in it, studied it diligently and at times fervently.I got the message, I got the words it was saying. But I never ever received any "light".

Now I am not saying that there is not light in the message. For some there is. For some it is a great shining beacon of light apparently.

But for others it is not. For others, no matter how hard they try, no matter how much they pray for "the spirit of God" to move them to find the light - it just never happens. For some, like myself, it actually is quite the opposite. It leads to a deep deep stifeling darkness.

So, the question is this. Why do you think that it comes for some but not for others? (there will be more questions later trust me)

***sidenote*** please try to respond with real thoughts, not just random bible verses that excuse you from actually formulating your own thought. thank you.

[Igakusei]

My answer would be that we're all unique. We each have a unique set of genes and a unique environmental history (still true but to a lesser extent in both cases for identical twins), and there is simply no one-size-fits-all answer to anything. We see it every day in medicine, and here you're just seeing it in psychology.

Some people can smoke for years and simply walk away from it, while others struggle for decades despite trying everything from God to Chantix to hypnotism. Does it mean that the former has better "self control" or a more direct line to God? Of course not, it just means that we're all unique and what works for some doesn't work for others. It's an oft-repeated cliche that we each have a "God-shaped-hole" in our psyche somewhere that we can either attempt to fill with "things of the world" or with God and that only God can really fill it, but that doesn't make it any less of a lie.

Religion does great things for some people, but you can't pretend that this indicates that if it doesn't do great things for everyone else, then everyone else is just doing it wrong.

[Woody]

A most excellent OP and follow up post. Thanks for this discussion. I just pray that some SDA with hydrocephalus doesn't come along and ruin it.

I don't claim to have the answer to your question EC. But it is an excellent question. And so let me just propose one place you might get a glimpse or clue - Try a more in depth study of the Great Controversy. That study has given me a number of answers to deep questions such as this.

[Woody]

Oh. And another author that might shed some light on this is Morris Vendon when he discusses "God's Honor Guard".

[M. T. Cross]

I agree with the idea of that Igakusei.

I think that there is light to be found. I simply think that it may come from different sources.

In my case it came from a spiritual place other than the Bible and the SDA church. It came to me in a way that actually helped me look again at the message of Jesus and gain respect for it.

What it is that baffles me is when people can not even entertain the notion that the thing that brings light for them may not work for everyone.

[Woody]

Quote:

What it is that baffles me is when people can not even entertain the notion that the thing that brings light for them may not work for everyone.

[M. T. Cross]

Oh. And another author that might shed some light on this is Morris Vendon when he discusses "God's Honor Guard".

That might be a better choice of authors for me as EGW was really instrumental in my getting to that very very dark place. No offence to those that get something from her writings - I am honestly happy that you do - but she gives me the creeps.

[M. T. Cross]

hydrocephalus

See now this is awesome. I had to look that up, so I have learned something today.

And I am also laughing pretty hard as well which is a good thing.

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Woody

Oh. And another author that might shed some light on this is Morris Vendon when he discusses "God's Honor Guard".

That might be a better choice of authors for me as EGW was really instrumental in my getting to that very very dark place. No offence to those that get something from her writings - I am honestly happy that you do - but she gives me the creeps.

Sorry to hear that EC. But I am not surprised. There are days I wonder if Ellen White does more over all harm than good. Just sayin' you are not alone.

For me she has blessed me greatly. More good than harm. But there has been great harm also.

I purposefully did not include her name when I said look into the Great Controversy. For I think one can find truth regarding the Great Controversy without Ellen White. Just contemplate about why we are here rather than the words "The Great Controversy" since any EGW connection might cause you grief. :)

[M. T. Cross]

That makes sense Woody. I actually do think about that a fair bit. Alot of what you will see me post (outside of the odd sarcastic comment) is a result of those thoughts.

[Woody]

We each can (and are called to) glorify Him who created us in a different and unique way:

“Ye are the light of the world.”“Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.”

"He hath showed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?"

[M. T. Cross]

Question to you Woody.

Do you think that someone that is not convinced or does not believe it ONE true God still honours his/her creator by living a good life with solid values and morals?

[Woody]

Question to you Woody.

Do you think that someone that is not convinced or does not believe it ONE true God still honours his/her creator by living a good life with solid values and morals?

Yes. Most certainly. For ALL good comes from God. It is a response of the heart to God. The person may not know or recognize the cognitive ascent to God yet. But yet they are responding with the heart.

[M. T. Cross]

Originally Posted By: EmptyCross

Question to you Woody.

Do you think that someone that is not convinced or does not believe it ONE true God still honours his/her creator by living a good life with solid values and morals?

Yes. Most certainly. For ALL good comes from God. It is a response of the heart to God. The person may not know or recognize the cognitive ascent to God yet. But yet they are responding with the heart.

Cool- we are on the same page there then.

[phkrause]

I repeatedly see it mentioned here that those of us that have left the church "had the light given too us but we rejected it". I see many other mentions of "the light"

I really feel that is way over simplifying it. There is a huge difference between receiving a message and receiving any light.

Its true. I was an SDA for over 15 years. Raised in it, studied it diligently and at times fervently.I got the message, I got the words it was saying. But I never ever received any "light".

Now I am not saying that there is not light in the message. For some there is. For some it is a great shining beacon of light apparently.

But for others it is not. For others, no matter how hard they try, no matter how much they pray for "the spirit of God" to move them to find the light - it just never happens. For some, like myself, it actually is quite the opposite. It leads to a deep deep stifeling darkness.

So, the question is this. Why do you think that it comes for some but not for others? (there will be more questions later trust me)

***sidenote*** please try to respond with real thoughts, not just random bible verses that excuse you from actually formulating your own thought. thank you.

Excellent question EC. Not sure why some see the light and some don't. Obviously we are all different, and in that we all see or receive light in different ways. As for me I don't it as being "over simplifying it." I've read the Bible quite a few times and find new light each time. I'm guessing that you've read the Bible? I guessing that there are parts that you find hard to take? Well your not alone. Especially in the OT. Those parts alone allow me to see that God is not hiding anything from us, he's letting it all hang out there. That alone gives me some light into God. So have you read Daniel and if yes what have you taken from this book? I've read this book a number of times and also commentary books about Daniel and when you read history books you see that Daniel's prophecies are pretty accurate. This gives me more light into the Bible and what I believe in. So as you see that this portion of the Bible is correct, you start to say to yourself, well if this is correct there must be other parts that have to be correct. Like the history of the Jews. As archeology is now showing many of the Kings are being found, cities are being discovered that they have not been able to find, etc. As more things come to light (pun intended, LOL) the Bible becomes more alive. I guess another thing that maybe needs an answer is what do you or anyone consider to be light? Maybe we are looking at light indifferent ways. Maybe when reading the Bible we should read it as a personal letter from God to us, and see what light he is revealing to us. Probably something different to each one of us. Sorry to go on and on, so I'll just stop now. :)

[M. T. Cross]

PK I have read the Bible a number of times. I read parts of it other times. I read it with much prayer and genuine seeking. Read it believing it was the word of God. It left me empty. No light. No anything but thinking it was a great history book with some good lessons.

I really loved David and Simon Peter. But thats it really. Jesus, I loved his message over all. But it never struck me as being the word of God. It was not until I began researching other religions and value system that I began to really appreciate Jesus. When I read about the Celtic deity, the Nordic deity. Their stories made what Jesus said make more sense to me.

I can't really explain that. It just is what it is.

[Woody]

Yeah. I agree in some ways. The Bible is not meant to be totally understood. It's kinda like an mystery. If God really felt we needed to understand it all he would have made things clear. The Bible is far from being clear on ANYthing.

The message of salvation is so simple a baby could understand it. That is what is required. The rest is gravy. I think it makes a great study. But I wouldn't take it as serious as some here do.

Having a relationship with God is far more important than thinking we know some doctrine. We have all of eternity to learn of the doctrines. And we are told that is how long it will take to really learn of God.

[BibleOnly]

***sidenote*** please try to respond with real thoughts, not just random bible verses that excuse you from actually formulating your own thought. thank you.

*grin*

At the end of the day, every church has people who leave it. A church that is not based on a real experience of God, has to be held together by social glue. That's my conclusion, anyhow.

[12tribes]

Quote:

I repeatedly see it mentioned here that those of us that have left the church "had the light given too us but we rejected it". I see many other mentions of "the light"

I really feel that is way over simplifying it. There is a huge difference between receiving a message and receiving any light.

Its true. I was an SDA for over 15 years. Raised in it, studied it diligently and at times fervently.I got the message, I got the words it was saying. But I never ever received any "light".

Now I am not saying that there is not light in the message. For some there is. For some it is a great shining beacon of light apparently.

But for others it is not. For others, no matter how hard they try, no matter how much they pray for "the spirit of God" to move them to find the light - it just never happens. For some, like myself, it actually is quite the opposite. It leads to a deep deep stifeling darkness.

So, the question is this. Why do you think that it comes for some but not for others? (there will be more questions later trust me)

***sidenote*** please try to respond with real thoughts, not just random bible verses that excuse you from actually formulating your own thought. thank you.

EC I was not brought up an SDA but I would just like to ask what light you are looking for?

[M. T. Cross]

I have spent the better part of my life looking for a light that says "this is the truth", something that sets the light bulb off for me, something that speaks to my heart, to my soul. Something that explains what I want to know. (and I want to know a lot of things so I am not gonna list them LOL )

I think I can explain it better like this.

I have known a few people in my life that you could see the light shining through them. Their every action was calm, it was with a smile, if they were angered they would give a gentle rebuke (usually with a smile) but still done in a way you got the point. Its like they had a secret or a knowledge like no other.

One was an elderly SDA lady

Two were native Shamans

One was a Buddhist

One I did not know but you could see it and that was Mother Theresa.

I call them "holy people"

They all had that exact same light to them even though they came from very different places.

Thats the light I seek.

[12tribes]

EC it is probably difficult to give a correct answer not knowing your experiences but, even though you have heard this before I will let you know. Jesus said "I am the light" and since that is the case then we need to have Jesus in our heart for the light to shine. Faith is not something we feel, faith believes even though we do not fully understand. If you are waiting for a feeling then you could be waiting a while but believe even though you do not feel.

For example we are forgiven by faith, when we pray to God for forgiveness our feelings may tell us we are not forgiven but the word of God says we are so which should we trust? As I said it is probably difficult to give a correct answer not knowing your experiences so I hope this helps.

God Bless

[M. T. Cross]

EC it is probably difficult to give a correct answer not knowing your experiences but, even though you have heard this before I will let you know. Jesus said "I am the light" and since that is the case then we need to have Jesus in our heart for the light to shine. Faith is not something we feel, faith believes even though we do not fully understand. If you are waiting for a feeling then you could be waiting a while but believe even though you do not feel.

For example we are forgiven by faith, when we pray to God for forgiveness our feelings may tell us we are not forgiven but the word of God says we are so which should we trust? As I said it is probably difficult to give a correct answer not knowing your experiences so I hope this helps.

God Bless

Thats just it 12. I really don't think there is a "correct" answer. I think its something that each of us has to find for ourselves.

The question I often ask is this. What did the SDA, 2 Shaman, a Buddhist and a Nun all have in common that they had that light. That they had it shine out of them in a way that was undeniable?

They had very little to nothing in common spiritually. Yet they all share that light.

[Gibs]

The light any and all must have is Jesus Christ. He is with us by His Spirit. He tells us,

Joh 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

This one reveals the secret,

Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

His Words come to us in the Holy Bible but are print on paper and it is His Spirit with it that brings out the light and life.

We must have His Spirit when we read His Words. We have not real life without Him within.

Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

For sure then,

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.