Israel and Gods promise.

[M. T. Cross]

Just so the Salvation thread can get back to Salvationing.

Who/What is Israel.

{to me its the nation with one of the most incredible intelligence agencies in the world. Thus ends my contribution}

[BibleOnly]

Cool, someone actually started a thread. This should be interesting. The nation called Israel today consists of people from every nation and does not have the marks that God said would follow Israel, so I don't regard them as Israel. Nevertheless, those who say Israel was replaced by the church ignore verses like :

Mat 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

The church will judge Israel. They are not the same thing.

Rev 21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

Rev 21:11 Having the glory of God: and her light [was] like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;

Rev 21:12 And had a wall great and high, [and] had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are [the names] of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:

Why are the names of the tribes written on there ? If this is just for the church, are we each 'given' a tribe to be in ?

Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: [and there were] sealed an hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

Rev 7:5 Of the tribe of Juda [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad [were] sealed twelve thousand.

Rev 7:6 Of the tribe of Aser [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses [were] sealed twelve thousand.

Rev 7:7 Of the tribe of Simeon [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar [were] sealed twelve thousand.

Rev 7:8 Of the tribe of Zabulon [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin [were] sealed twelve thousand.

Rev 7:9 ¶ After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Why is Israel standing separate to the other nations ?

Act 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

Act 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Why did Jesus not say 'you will replace Israel in a few days' ?

Many of Jesus' parables are about Israel and Judah, and not about the church. The restoration of Israel was central to why Jesus came and died. It's a theme right through the Bible, and you can't just say that none of it is true in it's most obvious reading because you can replace 'Israel' with the church, that does great violence to scripture.

1Th 4:13 ¶ But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

This happens when Jesus returns, and Revelation unfolds from there.

Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth [his] sheep from the goats:

Mat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Note he's separating the nations. Note further down that they earn their kingdom through works, not through obedience to God. This is not the church, nor are they inheriting the promises given to the church, which come by faith and not works.

[Gibs]

After the dispensation ended for Israel after the 70 weeks of years allotted to them then the Jew needed to come to the Redeemer same as the Gentiles. From then on it looks to me like the Israel of God became Spiritual same as who Paul says is now a Jew.

Ro 9:6 ¶ Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Ro 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

Ro 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

That explains it for me and I'm more sure scripture can be gotten on the subject.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[phkrause]

So tell me what Israel is today????? Are they a true believer in the Messiah? Do they except Jesus as the Messiah? Being of Jewish descent I know for a fact that the majority of Jews do not believe that Jesus was or is the Messiah and more than probably will never believe this. The Israel of today is not a religious country, they are a secular nation. There are a number of Messianic Jews and even a few Adventists that live in Israel. Some day before Jesus comes I pray that many of my relatives that are still alive and many other Jews, of course, will accept Jesus as the Messiah.

[12tribes]

Jesus is the true Israel

Matthew 2:15

(15) And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.

Hosea 11:1

(1) When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.

Hosea 11:1 is the prophecy and it is fulfilled in Christ as Matthew says.

Galatians 3:29

(29) And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Jesus is Israel and those who belong to Christ are of Israel

Romans 9:6

(6) Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

[Lysimachus]

BibleOnly,

We do not believe the Church replaced Israel, at least I don't. But before you jump to conclusions, I encourage you to read my article on this:

The Israel of God and the False Charge of "Replacement Theology"