Minister

[teresaq]

What is the role of ministers/pastors?

[Woody]

to serve us

[teresaq]

Shouldn't we be studying on our own and not need teachers?

1Jo 2:27

[Gail]

Feeding the sheep

[phkrause]

To guide us. Obviously most of us can not go to Theology classes, or don't feel the calling. So we need someone to guide us. Than after listening we need to study for ourselves.

[nuff sed]

Get real... You did not discover everything that you DO know by yourself. You went to school and learned what others discovered before you. It is the same in the spiritual life as in any other type of learning. "Learn from the mistakes of others, you don't have time to make them all yourself". By the same token others have been able to ferret out hidden truths that some of us sometimes miss.. We need ministers and fellow church members.

If they are not available then this is a different story altogether.... Nuff sed....

[teresaq]

Interesting thoughts....'nuff sed...

Except that I'm curious as to how we perceive the role of the minister/pastor.

So far it seems to be to "teach", except Woody's "serve".

(But yes I am surprised that "teach" is seen as the minister's role, and I don't think I need to be "attacked" because of that. )

And if "ministers" are not available then how are the people expected to learn?

[Woody]

OKAY PK. This is the original rules so I won't quote you BUT -

I wouldn't trust a Pastor's word or guidance anymore than I would trust my own study and prayer.

Their opinion is just one opinion. Not much more valuable than anyone elses in the congregation.

[phkrause]

I don't buy that Woody. This is there job per God!! Now again I'm not saying that we should not study what they tell us. We need not be led down the wrong path as the Jews in Jesus' day.

[Woody]

I can understand where you are coming from pk. But not all pastors are lead by God.

[phkrause]

That's a given. But who are we to say who is or who is not? You? Me?

[Woody]

We don't have to say who is and who ain't. We just have to say what is Truth and what is Not. That's why you have to rely on YOUR study and not the opinion of the pastor.

Like I said if I am allowed to quote myself as an original idea:

"I wouldn't trust a Pastor's word or guidance anymore than I would trust my own study and prayer."

[phkrause]

So than if you don't even trust your own study, who do you trust than? If not the Pastor, the bible teacher, yourself, etc. Than who, how about EGW? God?

[Woody]

Yeah. I can go with that. God and Ellen White are good company.

Seriously pk . I don't trust myself and I REALLY don't trust pastors.

[teresaq]

We all have our own ideas dgrimm60. And I was more about engaging you in conversation. :)

[teresaq]

Even tho I started this topic I got thinking about it. I know there was a time when I thought a minister/pastor was an "authority" more along the lines of papal authority...til that was blown out of the water by some good people.

Yesterday I was thinking that minister/pastor's role is to lead us to Jesus. Not "teach" us (except for new converts, and that's the job of all in the church), it's our job to study and show ourselves approved.

Not be an authority of what is ok and what is not, that is the job of the church as a whole.

The pastor's job, and our job, is to lead us to focus on Jesus, to lead us to depend on Jesus.

Them's my thoughts and while any are free to disagree with them, I'm thinking no one really needs to belittle and degrade them. :)

[Woody]

Very Good teresa. Well stated.

[rawprawn]

To live a comfy, easy life on your tithe. They are like politicians who live a very affluent life on our tax. The funny thing is, very few actually believe the doctrines of the church, but they have to present as if they do to keep the money coming.

I think Paul avoided the pitfalls and kept his integrity intact by not being paid by the church. When you have to teach and preach what people want to hear to keep the pay cheque coming, it destroys not only the pastor's integrity, but the church as a whole.

That's probably a bit harsh, but try getting your pastor to convince you that he thinks the Catholic Church is the beast of Revelation 13 that comes up from the sea. Give it a shot.

[Gail]

I don't know of any rich pastors... The ones I do know seem to be decent, hardworking folk. It might be different in your area

[phkrause]

And I haven't heard one that didn't believe that the Catholic Church is the beast of Revelation 13 that comes up from the sea.

[rawprawn]

How much do you know about your pastor's financial situation? I doubt it is common knowledge. How much property does your Conference President own? You might be surprised.

[rawprawn]

I think that is what I said PK, they will not tell you that. Some will believe tht stuff, for sure, especially the young ones. But most that have studied Theology at a college or Uni, will be hard pressed to give you a straight answer.

[teresaq]

I know a younger pastor who didn't think twice about "lifting" a piece of statuary from Greece that the people were asked not to, and commenting that he still had it.

Goes back to meditating on the law that I mentioned in another thread a minute ago.

Our pastors, just like the president of our country, comes from the people. What we are, they will be.

The pastor at my church now does seem to know ethics/morality/whatever one wants to call it...and definitely his goal is to try to lead us to Christ. Not that I agree all the time with him biblically, but I do appreciate his efforts, his heart.