Enticing words

[BibleOnly]

I am curious to know:

1Cr 2:4 And my speech and my preaching [was] not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:

1Cr 2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

No matter what church you go to, how is your preaching not in words, but in *demonstration* of the power of God ?

[ClubV12]

The demonstration of the power of God in one's life is how they conduct their daily affairs. It's how you do the dishes! How you do your job. It's the little things in your daily life. A kind word, a touch of the hand to someone who needs some warmth. It's a living, breathing connection to Christ that people, your neighbors, your friends see. It is NOT some "great work" some "miracle" some pronounced event or super natural thing you can demonstrate. It's a helping hand at the right time delivered to a stranger. It's working in your community to better the welfare of all. It's laying up your treasure in heaven where men don't see it, but God is keeping track.

An older friend of mine (83 years old) said to me the other day he didn't want to just "fade away". He wanted to do one more big thing for the Lord. I would be content to just "fade away" myself. Fade away into a life and character that consistently reveals the Saviour. Fade away that self may utterly die and He alone is revealed. I won't look at my "work" here on earth and "count" the souls saved, the results of my testimony, the end product of my life. We WILL do "big things" when we empty our lives of "self". My prayer is that I may "fade away", whatever the end results, they will be known in the coming Kingdom as God wills it.

[BibleOnly]

BIBLEONLY

maybe that bible verse is saying to preach GOD WORD

for the bible and not people /churches traditions

dgrimm60

Yes, that is right. It's saying that God's Word is not in traditions, but in power. What is that power ? How is it evident ?

[BibleOnly]

The demonstration of the power of God in one's life is how they conduct their daily affairs. It's how you do the dishes! How you do your job. It's the little things in your daily life. A kind word, a touch of the hand to someone who needs some warmth. It's a living, breathing connection to Christ that people, your neighbors, your friends see. It is NOT some "great work" some "miracle" some pronounced event or super natural thing you can demonstrate. It's a helping hand at the right time delivered to a stranger. It's working in your community to better the welfare of all. It's laying up your treasure in heaven where men don't see it, but God is keeping track.

[BibleOnly]

Yes, so what is the evidence of the Holy Spirit ? The 'power' of the Holy Spirit is surely not just that we're nice people, like so many non Christians are ?

[BibleOnly]

Sure, some people are nice and some are not, but a Christian should become a nice person. However, some people become nice through peer pressure without the claim of the Holy Spirit ( and I'd contend some become nice and say it's the Holy Spirit without having the Spirit, through peer pressure and the values in the Bible ). But, given that there's nice people outside the church, how is people being nice a demonstration of power ?

[BibleOnly]

I guess you've never met my grandmother...

"they only way a person can be nice in actions and words

is to have the HOLY SPIRIT in their life's"

No, this is plain not true, it's a delusion that many labor under, but it's not true. There are people who give their whole lives to others and never claim to be a Christian.

The fact is, the fruits of the Spirit are certainly important, but they are not evidence of Christianity, it's in the passage on the gifts in 1 Cor 12 that Paul says 'the manifestation of the Spirit is given to everyone'. The manifestation of the Spirit in Acts was never being a nice person. That's a fruit, it grows, it does not visibly appear. The demonstration of the power of the Spirit cannot be in watching people become nicer when they spend time with nicer people and believe the Bible. That happens, and it is important. But, that's not all there is to the Gospel.

[BibleOnly]

Just looking to discuss what the Bible says. The Bible says the gospel comes in demonstration of the power of God. If your gospel does not come with a demonstration of God's power, then it differs from Paul's.

[BibleOnly]

Throughout Acts the manifestation of the Spirit was speaking in tongues. I've talked about this on other threads before. I'm just curious to know what answer people who reject this, would give.

[BibleOnly]

It's not all of it, the other gifts are obviously evident in the church, 1 Cor 12-14 tells us God's church operates tongues, interpretation and prophecy in meetings. But, in terms of conversion, yes, that is the demonstration of power Paul speaks of.

1Jo 4:13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.

How does this make sense if there's no tangible way to know we've been given the Spirit ? It then means 'this is why we have faith, because we have faith', it's self defeating.

[cheddar]

Throughout Acts the manifestation of the Spirit was speaking in tongues. I've talked about this on other threads before. I'm just curious to know what answer people who reject this, would give.

This is completely false and you focus too much on the apostle Paul! Peter, John, Matthew and other bible authors all had a unique understanding of the gospel and no two read the same. Paul was able to expound the gospel but that doesn't make him better than the others. I personally don't care much for what James had to say, I think he focused too much on works but I respect his opinion. At least he didn't follow Paul around like a little puppy dog!

I like the time that Peter sat with Jews just to mess with Paul. That was funny.

[BobRyan]

In the Bible - God says "Desire earnestly spiritual gifts but especially that you may speak in tongues" 1Cor 14 vs not-found. Oh wait! I meant to report - "Desire earnestly spiritual gifts but especially that you may speak in prophesy". 1Cor 14:1

In the Bible - God says "Tongues are a sign for believers but prophecy is a sign to unbelievers" 1Cor 14 vs nothing. Oh wait! I meant to report "Tongues are a sign for UNbelievers but prophecy is a sign to believers".

According to the actual words of 1Cor 14 just exactly how is it that Tongues is "a sign to UNbelievers"??

Use the words in the text to answer that question and you will have the right view of the gift of Tongues.

in Christ,

Bob

[BibleOnly]

BIBLEONLY

the bible says that the HOLY SPIRIT is given to guide

us in to all truth JOHN 16:13

so the person that has the HOLY SPIRIT has the truth

of the bible...

DO you believe that the 10 COMMANDMENTS are still valid

as truth????

dgrimm60

That is true, but the reverse is not, just because you believe the Bible does not mean you have the Holy Spirit. In Acts 8, baptised believers knew they did not have the Spirit. How ?

The 10 commandments say not to kill your brother. Jesus said to love your brother as yourself and you fulfil the law. In that sense, the law is 'valid as truth', it's a legalistic expression of God's nature, but, it was given to Israel, under the law, and while we do not break it, we don't have to keep it in the exact way that Israel did. We do more. That's why the concept of God requiring us to not work on a certain day of the week is no longer valid, instead we rest in God every day, if we are Christians. Jesus said He came to give us rest, He did not come so we could have just the same rest and the same law that existed before He died. What would be the point of that ?

[BobRyan]

In John 3 - Jesus says that the Holy Spirit is there - pre-cross even BEFORE the person is converted and that the New Birth takes place even PRECross as a result of the Holy Spirit in you.

In John 16 Christ declares that the Holy Spirit "convicts the WORLD of sin and righteousness and judgment" not just those who speak in tongues.

In 1Cor 12 God says that EACH person is given a measure of the Spirit and that it is NEVER the case that all the people of God have all the gifts - but rather the Holy Spirit gives to each ONE individually the gift that HE selects.

There is no "we all get the gift of tongues" message in the Bible any more than "We are all prophets".

in Christ,

Bob

[BibleOnly]

In the Bible - God says "Desire earnestly spiritual gifts but especially that you may speak in tongues" 1Cor 14 vs nothing. Oh wait! I meant to report - "Desire earnestly spiritual gifts but especially that you may speak in prophesy".

[BibleOnly]

Originally Posted By: BibleOnly

Throughout Acts the manifestation of the Spirit was speaking in tongues. I've talked about this on other threads before. I'm just curious to know what answer people who reject this, would give.

This is completely false and you focus too much on the apostle Paul! Peter, John, Matthew and other bible authors all had a unique understanding of the gospel and no two read the same. Paul was able to expound the gospel but that doesn't make him better than the others. I personally don't care much for what James had to say, I think he focused too much on works but I respect his opinion. At least he didn't follow Paul around like a little puppy dog!

I like the time that Peter sat with Jews just to mess with Paul. That was funny.

Paul is not better than anyone else. The letters not written by Paul do not contradict what I am saying. Luke wrote Acts.

James was written first, and has a more OT legalistic viewpoint, but I think his book is my favourite. Nothing on tongues in there, but lots of good practical advice that I think is very down to earth and worth thinking about.

[BibleOnly]

In John 3 - Jesus says that the Holy Spirit is there - pre-cross even BEFORE the person is converted and that the New Birth takes place even PRECross as a result of the Holy Spirit in you.

[Dr. Rich]

Jesus was ONLY talking to His eye/earwitnesses in John 14-17. He was NOT talking others. Please note in John 20:21-22 Jesus gave the disciples the Holy Spirit already so the story in Acts 2 is fiction as Luke was not an eyewitness disciple of Jesus, but was a follower of Paul who also never knew Jesus or preach and teach anything the same as what Jesus said and taught. Now that's a fact that NO ONE can dispute!

[BibleOnly]

You've given me examples of where Paul contradicts Jesus, they were all a joke. I have no interest in discussing them with you, what is the point, if you don't even think God could deliver a clear message of salvation and you reject most of the New Testament ? I think that's more intellectually honest in a lot of ways than trying to talk your way around where Paul explains why we don't need to keep the Sabbath any more, but it's still built on a platform I have no further interest in exploring, it just makes me sad for you, and gives me no common ground to base a discussion on.

[Dr. Rich]

Hey, kick me in the head if you want, but for goodness sake, don't go calling the words of Jesus a joke! If you can't debate in an honest way, then so be it. I presented the evidence which you just called a joke. Could be, the joke is on you my friend.

So tell me this, do you trust what John wrote about Jesus breathing the Holy Spirit on the disciples OR--do you believe in someone who was not even Hebrew, but a gentile follower of Paul who never had been baptized and never knew Jesus? Which one told the truth because they both can't possibly be true!

Notice that the eyewitness gospel writers have Jesus telling His disciples to go to Galilee--which is not what Luke wrote in Luke 24:49 and Acts 1:4 and 8. Why?

[BibleOnly]

I'm sorry, I responded to all of this, I explained how your examples were ridiculous, and explained as politely as I can why I have no interest in pursuing this with you. You can stick to your views if you feel convinced of it, but I will never agree, and see no point in arguing about it.

[Dr. Rich]

BibleOnly, of course I know that--the name you picked tells me all about you. But you will not catch me on that wide road to destruction, the some one all of those who call themselve Christian. Truly Truly, Jesus said something like not all of those who call themselves Christian and do things in my name will enter the Kingdom of Heaven--for I never knew them!

And why isn't God's grace sufficient for the 5 foolish virgins? Didn't they say they loved Jesus and that Jesus loved them--and were not they already in the Kingdom of Heaven? Can you honestly tell me why?

[BibleOnly]

That's easy. They had the lamp ( the scripture ) and not the oil ( the Holy Spirit ). You don't have either, so I guess you're even worse off

[Dr. Rich]

What was it that Jesus called "Scripture"? What was 'IT' that Paul called "Scripture"? Neither had the bible so it couldn't be that. The ONLY thing that Jesus called scripture and what Paul called scripture was the Law and the Prophets. So calling the whole bible we have today the same thing that Jesus called the Law and the Prophets is not a wise thing to do. Remember, Paul admitted he told the Jews one thing and then told the Gentiles something different. He also asked why anyone should care if he lied as long as his lies caused them to follow his gospel. Didn't Paul also say that there was one way for salvation for the Jews and another for Gentiles? Didn't Paul say something about being adopted? How come Jesus never said anything about being adopted?

I know Jesus never did such a thing. Hmmmm?

[BibleOnly]

This is a combination of lies and half truths. I won't respond if you keep posting your delusions, it seems the only way to make you stop is to ignore you.