Something I was thinking about

[M. T. Cross]

I was sitting here this morning reading these forums.

I got thinking about everything I have read and discussed over the last couple months here at Club Adventist. It got me thinking further back in my life.

37 years ago I remember seeing my parents get baptized into the SDA church. Over the next 13 or 14 years I grew up in the church I listened a lot and I heard discussions that seldom ever were resolved. I heard a lot of arguments and saw a lot of people disagree on a lot of the theology. None of that ever got resolved either. Then there were those that stayed out of all that and simply worshipped their God.

So my morning thinking led me to realize something. Nothing has changed has it? Not even the subject of the discussions or the theological arguments have changed. Its the same tired old arguments. The same tired old lack of resolution. The same tired old division of parties.

Thankfully for your denomination there is still the vibrant few that stay out of all that and simply rejoice in their worship of their God. If it were not for those I think the SDA denomination would be like deer that just got hit by a car. All broken and floundering to get out of the way of the next vehicle.

Seriously read the Issues and Theological forums here. Sit down, detatch yourself a little bit and actually read the tone of the discussions. Its a lot like watching a dog try to catch its own tail. The posts are sarcastic and bitter the majority of the time. There is absolutely ZERO of the so called Christian love in them.

Honestly, if your Christ really did rise, really is watching you and the actions you put forth in his name........... wow my heart truly goes out to him. His tears must be falling like rain seeing how much the point of what he did and taught were missed by so many of his so called followers. There is a whole lot of you that really should hang your heads in shame and think really hard about the disgrace you have heaped on your Saviour.

[Naomi]

I was sitting here this morning reading these forums.

I got thinking about everything I have read and discussed over the last couple months here at Club Adventist. It got me thinking further back in my life.

37 years ago I remember seeing my parents get baptized into the SDA church. Over the next 13 or 14 years I grew up in the church I listened a lot and I heard discussions that seldom ever were resolved. I heard a lot of arguments and saw a lot of people disagree on a lot of the theology. None of that ever got resolved either. Then there were those that stayed out of all that and simply worshipped their God.

[BibleOnly]

I would agree that I find it surprising that there would be so much division over so many issues between people claiming to be of the same denomination. The church I attend is nothing like this, and it took me quite a while to get my head around.

[John317]

It's a mistake to think this Forum is anything like the SDA church. The Forum has no connction to the church. The Forum consists of anti-SDAs, former SDAs, atheists, agnostics, anti-Christians, anti-EGWs, and some SDAs.

[BibleOnly]

Yes, I know. But there is certainly division amongst people who identify themselves as SDA.

[M. T. Cross]

It's a mistake to think this Forum is anything like the SDA church. The Forum has no connction to the church. The Forum consists of anti-SDAs, former SDAs, atheists, agnostics, anti-Christians, anti-EGWs, and some SDAs.

[phkrause]

I was sitting here this morning reading these forums.

I got thinking about everything I have read and discussed over the last couple months here at Club Adventist. It got me thinking further back in my life.

37 years ago I remember seeing my parents get baptized into the SDA church. Over the next 13 or 14 years I grew up in the church I listened a lot and I heard discussions that seldom ever were resolved. I heard a lot of arguments and saw a lot of people disagree on a lot of the theology. None of that ever got resolved either. Then there were those that stayed out of all that and simply worshipped their God.

So my morning thinking led me to realize something. Nothing has changed has it? Not even the subject of the discussions or the theological arguments have changed. Its the same tired old arguments. The same tired old lack of resolution. The same tired old division of parties.

Thankfully for your denomination there is still the vibrant few that stay out of all that and simply rejoice in their worship of their God. If it were not for those I think the SDA denomination would be like deer that just got hit by a car. All broken and floundering to get out of the way of the next vehicle.

Seriously read the Issues and Theological forums here. Sit down, detatch yourself a little bit and actually read the tone of the discussions. Its a lot like watching a dog try to catch its own tail. The posts are sarcastic and bitter the majority of the time. There is absolutely ZERO of the so called Christian love in them.

Honestly, if your Christ really did rise, really is watching you and the actions you put forth in his name........... wow my heart truly goes out to him. His tears must be falling like rain seeing how much the point of what he did and taught were missed by so many of his so called followers. There is a whole lot of you that really should hang your heads in shame and think really hard about the disgrace you have heaped on your Saviour.

EC you make some very valued points. Not sure that there really is an answer. The only thing that I can say is, all are at different places in there walk with God. And having discussions or even arguments as you say are just part of growing. That doesn't always mean that if two people or groups of people who have different opinions on certain subjects that both sides are wrong or even right. Only God knows what's in our hearts or minds. I do agree that there are those that really have no interest in discussing or arguing, just go about there days being the best they can be and as you say worshiping. As long as we spend time every day reading our Bibles and studying to the best of our abilities, we are a witness. And I also agree nothing has changed in all the years that I can think back to! It will never change, Satan wants confusion, this is one of his greatest ploys, and he has succeeded in that attempt.

[Tom Wetmore]

Originally Posted By: John317

It's a mistake to think this Forum is anything like the SDA church. The Forum has no connction to the church. The Forum consists of anti-SDAs, former SDAs, atheists, agnostics, anti-Christians, anti-EGWs, and some SDAs.

Thats just it John, I am not refering to the anti-SDAs, former SDAs, atheists, agnostics, anti-Christians, anti-EGWs. They are pretty apparent, and obviously have a different view. I am talking about those proffessing to be current SDA's.

And John. What I see here is EXACTLY what I saw in EVERY Adventist church I ever attended. It was just sometime more behind others backs there.

I tend to agree EC. There are church's that have an apparent cohesiveness, but that is because there is a tendency to have either driven off those who differ or those who differ recognize they are different and do not fit in so they move on and find other like-minded Adventists to join up with. There are vast differences among Adventist congregations. I live in an area with at least 70 different Adventist churches. People have gravitated to the church where they feel comfortable. And their is a wide spectrum of Adventist congregations to choose from.

I think what John317 reflects in what he posted is what many Adventists would like to believe, that there isn't nearly as much diversity as there is in reality. And many only see sameness because they tend to seek out and associate with like-minded Adventists. I think to some extent that is why you often see a reaction of incredulity to ideas that diverge from a strictly traditional view.

[CoAspen]

I would second Toms post. Here in the Denver area we have about 8-10 churches. The church I attend would be considered 'liberal' by a few on this board but you could go across to Aurora and find the opposite. People do indeed gravitate to where they are the most comfortable. I believe the basics are pretty much the same in all churches. The disagreements continue, over what I believe, are non-salvic issues. Those have been there in the past and will continue. If we didn't have differences, well, you have a very stagnant organization. The way we speak to each other, is an other matter, and could be more civil. We are a reflection of society in general in that matter and expecting more civility would be expected from those calling themselves christians. Lack of civility is historically significant, check out Bible characters!!!!

[M. T. Cross]

I would second Toms post. Here in the Denver area we have about 8-10 churches. The church I attend would be considered 'liberal' by a few on this board but you could go across to Aurora and find the opposite. People do indeed gravitate to where they are the most comfortable. I believe the basics are pretty much the same in all churches. The disagreements continue, over what I believe, are non-salvic issues. Those have been there in the past and will continue. If we didn't have differences, well, you have a very stagnant organization. The way we speak to each other, is an other matter, and could be more civil. We are a reflection of society in general in that matter and expecting more civility would be expected from those calling themselves christians. Lack of civility is historically significant, check out Bible characters!!!!

I agree up to a point there my friend. You need to discuss and disagree at times in order to move forward.

Here is where I see the failure. These are the very same arguments I heard SDA's bickering over 30+ years ago! That seems very stagnant to me. The total opposite of growth.

[ClubV12]

The wide diversity seen here, which is consistent with all those who call themselves "Christians" is why I often make it a point to recognize two things:

1. A Seventh-day Adventist in truth is a baptized, member who fully supports the church. A person who is not fighting against it with pen and voice.

We have a LOT of "professed" Adventists, people who lay claim to the title. Some of them even ARE actual baptized members, as such I have to acknowledge their status. I also recognize that every group has a certain amount of "nut cases" within it. Those that make the claim they are Adventists and they are not actual members of the church are simply liars, Adventist "wannabe's" at best. Many "professed Christians" don't attend church at all, same thing with some Adventists. They don't speak for the church in any regard. They are no different than any other man on the street or anybody else that lays claim to being a Christian.

2. It's a BIG mistake to consider someone's opinion as representative of Adventist doctrines or position.

They have an opinion, they do not speak for the official church. Who DOES speak officially for the church? Ministers and Pastors officially recognized by the body of believers and the General Conference. The Pastor in any given local Adventist church is the SINGLE and ONLY official spokesman representing the Adventist faith when it comes to doctrine and procedure. The elected officers (head Elder, deacon, etc.) of that local church carry no weight outside of their local church. The Pastor's on the other hand, carry weight anywhere and everywhere in the world.

When it comes to "What Adventists believe" you have to go back to an official source, not what somebody said on the web. The reason is, if you haven't heard, is because you can't believe everything you read on the web. I know, it's shocking and hard to grasp, but that is the reality. :)

[M. T. Cross]

You are totally and completely missing the point Club. If you read what I said - the web is just an extention of what I have seen in the real world. Just less backstabbing cause its easier to say something to someone on the web.

[M. T. Cross]

EMPTYCROSS

WELL I hope you have better time later on

but don't give up just yet ok

dgrimm60

These are just the things I have observed here and throughout my life. I am already having the better time spiritually. I have done what I sought to do by coming to this forum. None of what I posted in the OP affects my personal spirituality at all really, other than it makes me sad to see that amount of strife in others as they try to move towards the light.