Health Care and the poor

[Stan]

:)

[bonnie]

The poor have health care.If you are at or below the poverty level you are on medicaid paid for by others.If you are on medicaid,specialists are provided when needed.You keep bringing children into the world,it is paid for.Break you leg,it is paid for.When we carried private insurance with a large deductible,we paid over 1500.00 for the little ride to the hospital.Lights and siren added considerably to the cost.The poor ride free.You are poor and a drug addict/alcoholic,you get disability and medicaid.I am middle class,no medicaid for me.Stay in a drunken stupor or pay your way.

[Stan]

Have you never met anyone that needed health care and could not get it?

[Stan]

just saw this

[olger]

When our second son was born it came at a time when I had just started my business and had no insurance. I was hoping (praying) for natural delivery but alas, the doctor chose to go cesarean section after a prolonged labor. 1987 - Ten thousand dollars. Drat.

It never occurred to me to get others to pay for my bills (probably because I was born into a family and an era where the responsible thing to do is pay your own bills). Like a man, I worked hard and paid the bill completely off over the next 2.5 years. There were times when it was painful, probably distasteful, and even tedious. But I learned a valuable lesson in that experience - one that is still with me. However difficult, doing the right thing is always the right thing.

[bonnie]

Have you never met anyone that needed health care and could not get it?

Sure have. What country/world/system/ can/does provide for absolutely everyone,making sure they get all they need.

I spent several days in a hospital lounge with my husband for tests. During that time I came to know others waiting as well.

Some of these were from Canada. Thru taxes they had believed they would have the care they needed. Their situation was such they did not think they could afford the wait time.A couple of families mortgaged their homes to the hilt to be able to afford care for their family members.Some had the resources and one for certain was there,compliments of american Dr's and taxpayer.Not sure how that is accomplished but know they were very grateful.

My cousins husband would have lost five years of his life under a system designed to care for all.

Good old american medical system acted within 24 hours,had him from New York to Mayo hospital and undergoing surgery within 24 hours.

They were in awe of the availability of MRI's,the speed with which they were scheduled along with other important tests.

And of course,extremely grateful for the additional five years of life he would have been denied in Canada

[Stan]

When our second son was born it came at a time when I had just started my business and had no insurance. I was hoping (praying) for natural delivery but alas, the doctor chose to go cesarean section after a prolonged labor. 1987 - Ten thousand dollars. Drat.

It never occurred to me to get others to pay for my bills (probably because I was born into a family and an era where the responsible thing to do is pay your own bills). Like a man, I worked hard and paid the bill completely off over the next 2.5 years. There were times when it was painful, probably distasteful, and even tedious. But I learned a valuable lesson in that experience - one that is still with me. However difficult, doing the right thing is always the right thing.

Am sure it is nice to live in a bubble.

[Stan]

Originally Posted By: Stan

Have you never met anyone that needed health care and could not get it?

Sure have. What country/world/system/ can/does provide for absolutely everyone,making sure they get all they need.

I spent several days in a hospital lounge with my husband for tests. During that time I came to know others waiting as well.

Some of these were from Canada. Thru taxes they had believed they would have the care they needed. Their situation was such they did not think they could afford the wait time.A couple of families mortgaged their homes to the hilt to be able to afford care for their family members.Some had the resources and one for certain was there,compliments of american Dr's and taxpayer.Not sure how that is accomplished but know they were very grateful.

My cousins husband would have lost five years of his life under a system designed to care for all.

Good old american medical system acted within 24 hours,had him from New York to Mayo hospital and undergoing surgery within 24 hours.

They were in awe of the availability of MRI's,the speed with which they were scheduled along with other important tests.

And of course,extremely grateful for the additional five years of life he would have been denied in Canada

There is a gap in information.

Let me say one difference, a Liver transplant, people wait in line for them to become available, and have them on a most needed basis. The wealthier go to the US and pay to get first in line, or to have them 'harvested'

Why is it providing health care to people that can not afford it a abomination, yet killing 160,000 men, women and children in a country that did not even threaten a country, well that is ok?

[bonnie]

Quote:

There is a gap in information.

Please show me the gap.My cousins husband was not feeling well for sometime,including stomach pains.As symptoms increased ,his medical testing/care in Canada did not.He was put on a waiting list for a MRI.Do to the slow availability of MRI's in Canada and their ability to go the few miles across the border to New York her husband had a MRI within hours and then was flown directly to Mayo Hospital

Healthcare Policy, 4(3) 2009: 76-86

Quote:

Research Paper

Management of MRI Wait Lists in Canada

Derek J. Emery, Alan J. Forster, Kaveh G. Shojania, Stephanie Magnan, Michelle Tubman and Thomas E. Feasby

Abstract

Excessive wait times for magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) studies are a major problem in the Canadian healthcare system. To determine how requests for MRI studies are managed, the authors performed a survey of public MRI facilities in Canada. Ninety-six per cent had some method to triage MRI requests. However, only 42% had documented guidelines for prioritization, and none employed quality assurance methods to ensure that guidelines were followed. Target timelines for each prioritization category varied widely. Sixteen per cent of centres were not able to meet their target timelines for any prioritization category, and 45% of centres met target times only for some prioritization categories. Strategies for dealing with wait lists primarily involved attempts to increase capacity. No centres attempted to reduce wait times by decreasing inappropriate requests. There appears to be a need to standardize MRI wait list management given the variation in management practices and wait times observed.

Excessive wait times for some healthcare interventions have caught the attention of governments, providers and the public (Sanmartin et al. 2000). Of particular interest to these groups are cardiac surgery, joint replacement surgery, cancer care and advanced diagnostic imaging, specifically magnetic resonance imaging (MRI). Wait times for diagnostic imaging are particularly important because they may result in delays in definitive treatment

[bonnie]

There is a gap in information.

Let me say one difference, a Liver transplant, people wait in line for them to become available, and have them on a most needed basis. The wealthier go to the US and pay to get first in line, or to have them 'harvested'

I am sure as in anything it does happen.Can you show me where this is standard practice?

[bonnie]

Why is it providing health care to people that can not afford it a abomination, yet killing 160,000 men, women and children in a country that did not even threaten a country, well that is ok?

[bonnie]

Quote:

Why is it providing health care to people that can not afford it a abomination, yet killing 160,000 men, women and children in a country that did not even threaten a country, well that is ok?

You are stating the war with Iraq was a choice between between killing 160,000 or health care for people that can't afford it.

One has nothing to do with the other. Nor was the intent to go and kill 160,000. Many feel that is a highly inflated number at best,but that doesn't really matter.

You claim a gap in information. My husband needed some very complicated tests.I sat for several days with a couple there for very similar reasons.They were from Canada.My husband was scheduled without question or wait times.The Canadian couple had several wait times ahead of them for various tests and the wife was afraid he would die before then.

Both men had a complicated diagnosis,the reasons for their problems were tough to find.We could not go to Canada for treatment as Canada would not even have had some of the medical technology needed.Both men were very high risk for immediate stroke.The Canadian couple did not feel they could risk the wait for the medical profession in Canada. Where is the gap or do you think these people went to the inconvenience and expense to leave the same behind just to come to the states?Somehow I don't think so

[olger]

Originally Posted By: olger

When our second son was born it came at a time when I had just started my business and had no insurance. I was hoping (praying) for natural delivery but alas, the doctor chose to go cesarean section after a prolonged labor. 1987 - Ten thousand dollars. Drat.

It never occurred to me to get others to pay for my bills (probably because I was born into a family and an era where the responsible thing to do is pay your own bills). Like a man, I worked hard and paid the bill completely off over the next 2.5 years. There were times when it was painful, probably distasteful, and even tedious. But I learned a valuable lesson in that experience - one that is still with me. However difficult, doing the right thing is always the right thing.

Am sure it is nice to live in a bubble.

Where were you when I hocked my Grandpa's 16 gauge shotgun (prize gift to me) to pay the electric bill during a hard winter..and ate pie crusts somebody gave us - to stay alive for a week? Harumph!!

[Stan]

olger, it is not all about you.

[Stan]

Quote:

To support low-wage workers, Congress and state legislatures expanded coverage to low-income working families. Medicaid previously had gone primarily to welfare recipients.

Today, a family of four can earn as much as $40,000 a year in most states and get government health insurance for children. The nation's median household income was $43,318 in 2003, the Census Bureau says.

So the children, often the least expensive medically but not always, can be of good health while they can watch their mother rot away and die of a treatable cancer. or as you often see, have a bake sale to raise funds.

[bonnie]

So the children, often the least expensive medically but not always, can be of good health while they can watch their mother rot away and die of a treatable cancer. or as you often see, have a bake sale to raise funds.

The sob story posted overlooks one fact.Because of Obamacare there is less employer paid insurance.That is directly related.

Do you have this perfect system in Canada? If so,then tell me why my cousins husband would have died five years earlier than necessary. The daughter of my first cousin lives in Canada,very close to you.You might actually know her.Except for routine medical, guess where she came when faced a couple of times with some very serious issues.The primary reason was wait time and availability of technology.

Why is the US supposed to be the one free perfect system in the world? Why only in the US should we be able to care for every citizen,food/shelter/medical when no other country,no matter how well intentioned can do so?

Regardless of any steps we take,there will be those that fall thru the cracks.Maybe that is not so in Canada.

In reality,the ones that can pay,provide much for the ones that cannot or will not.

[olger]

olger, it is not all about you.

Indeed. Nor you.

It is about both of us being faithful to God's calling and to His Word. I get the legitimacy of outreach, and benevolence. Our family has long been involved in many kinds of that. I also know that we are to keep ourselves unspotted from the world (James 1:27). But.. What I pause at, is the suggestion that Obama and his liberal agenda is somehow the fulfillment or enrichment of Scriptural ministration. If you're not saying that, I apologize. If you are, then we disagree.

Obamacare will affect my business in a negative way, and thousands of others as well.

It looked like you assumed that because I own a business I have it made in my insular corner of the world. Not so.. You have probably had it easier than I have. That's ok. The question is not where have we been, but where are we going?

G

[bonnie]

Most countries that denounce the US for the expensive medical care,technology and prescription drugs can do so because they provide their own citizens on the backs of the US.

You can afford the less expensive MRI's,altho the machines themselves are is short supply.You can profit from the manufacture of cheaper drugs because of those in the US generally that have gone before.You can offer socialized medicine if Canadian citizens do not mind waiting for what is routine here.That is placing everyone on the same lower common denominator.

I don't think you can say that none have died in your country because of what should be unnecessary wait times and falling thru the cracks.

No country can make that claim.One country is demanded by others to do so

[bonnie]

It is about both of us being faithful to God's calling and to His Word. I get the legitimacy of outreach, and benevolence. Our family has long been involved in many kinds of that. I also know that we are to keep ourselves unspotted from the world (James 1:27).

There is an assumption if you do not see "charity" in the same view others do you are somehow less than you should be.

If you do not expect this country to be perfect and care for all equally then you must be some self centered individual.

What is expected cannot be done,but those expected to accomplish the impossible can and should be denounced

[olger]

Social justice is predicated on building a new perfect kingdom on earth - Utopia if you will. Is that what you are saying?

[bonnie]

Where were you when I hocked my Grandpa's 16 gauge shotgun (prize gift to me) to pay the electric bill during a hard winter..and ate pie crusts somebody gave us - to stay alive for a week? Harumph!!

Sometimes going thru hard times teaches you a different perspective.One that some claim is cold and callous.

[olger]

True. It gives one a deep appreciation for hard work - maybe that's the German in me.

It also helps to see potential in others, maybe Paul's tent-building helped him to see that it wasn't God's will that lazy believers mooch off of the church - "If they won't work...let hunger motivate them." The Lord had it right.

But back to legitimate charity cases - we should do what we can to help them!

[olger]

Taxes is the new tithe - for a new brand of liberals. Think about that.