Are We Bonding Up With The World?

[Gibs]

I am posting this statement not originally mine but this expresses my thoughts exactly as they are mine also. Please read, from EGW,

"The bondage of worldly habits and customs is so pleasing to the natural heart that it has become well-nigh universal. Few can be found who are willing to deny self that they may walk in the light of Heaven. It is because they know not Christ and obey not the truth, that professed Christians can accept as their portion the pleasures of sense and the changing fashions of a fickle world. Not one of those who have come out from the world, in obedience to the injunctions of Christ, can find pleasure in its amusements or its display.

Many are saying by their course of action, that the line of demarkation between Christians and the world must not be too distinct. They conform to the customs and unite in the pursuits of the lovers of pleasure, in order to retain their friendship, and exert an influence to win them to the truth.

The plea is not new. The same work has been often attempted since the opposing forces of good and evil first existed in the world. The result has ever been the same. Conformity to worldly customs converts the church to the world. It never converts the world to Christ. "The friendship of the world is enmity with God. Whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God." How can the loyal subjects of the Great King be in harmony with his bitterest foe? When the professed people of God choose the fellowship of the world, what marvel that the presence and blessing of Christ is shut out from the church?" {RH, June 20, 1882 par. 15}

Some serious thoughts there and where are we anyway in this?

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[olger]

Many in the church are of the world, they are referred to as tares. Let us search our hearts and repent of this evil before it is too late.

[Woody]

WE MUST become friends and bond with the world . As believers we are called OUT to reach them. We are not to expect them to come to us.

[Gibs]

I must maintain we cannot be in friendship with the world and EGW agrees,

"The bondage of worldly habits and customs is so pleasing to the natural heart that it has become well-nigh universal. Few can be found who are willing to deny self that they may walk in the light of Heaven. It is because they know not Christ and obey not the truth, that professed Christians can accept as their portion the pleasures of sense and the changing fashions of a fickle world. Not one of those who have come out from the world, in obedience to the injunctions of Christ, can find pleasure in its amusements or its display. Many are saying by their course of action, that the line of demarkation between Christians and the world must not be too distinct. They conform to the customs and unite in the pursuits of the lovers of pleasure, in order to retain their friendship, and exert an influence to win them to the truth. The plea is not new. The same work has been often attempted since the opposing forces of good and evil first existed in the world. The result has ever been the same. Conformity to worldly customs converts the church to the world. It never converts the world to Christ. "The friendship of the world is enmity with God. Whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God."The bondage of worldly habits and customs is so pleasing to the natural heart that it has become well-nigh universal. Few can be found who are willing to deny self that they may walk in the light of Heaven. It is because they know not Christ and obey not the truth, that professed Christians can accept as their portion the pleasures of sense and the changing fashions of a fickle world. Not one of those who have come out from the world, in obedience to the injunctions of Christ, can find pleasure in its amusements or its display. Many are saying by their course of action, that the line of demarkation between Christians and the world must not be too distinct. They conform to the customs and unite in the pursuits of the lovers of pleasure, in order to retain their friendship, and exert an influence to win them to the truth. The plea is not new. The same work has been often attempted since the opposing forces of good and evil first existed in the world. The result has ever been the same. Conformity to worldly customs converts the church to the world. It never converts the world to Christ. "The friendship of the world is enmity with God. Whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God." How can the loyal subjects of the Great King be in harmony with his bitterest foe? When the professed people of God choose the fellowship of the world, what marvel that the presence and blessing of Christ is shut out from the church? {RH, June 20, 1882 par. 15} How can the loyal subjects of the Great King be in harmony with his bitterest foe? When the professed people of God choose the fellowship of the world, what marvel that the presence and blessing of Christ is shut out from the church?" {RH, June 20, 1882 par. 15}

This is happened in the best reformed church that ever came up and has now returned. Can it be denied?

We who are people of Him must stand firm and be a separate people, in the world but not of it and partakers with it.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Naomi]

WE MUST become friends and bond with the world . As believers we are called OUT to reach them. We are not to expect them to come to us.

We do not have to take part in that which goes against our beliefs and lifestyle to be friends with the people of the world people. What did Jesus do?

90% of my life has been spent with "worldly" peoples ... those who know me know who I am and how I choose to live and believe ... however, we can be/are friends .

Perhaps I should explain that by 90% I am referring to professional and community.

How can we witness if we isolate ourselves?

[Naomi]

dgrimm, I think you more clearly expressed what I was attempting to say.

[Gibs]

We witness the truth to them but we must not be of them and be of the world. Yes we are to work to bring any we can to a right understanding but we don't bond together with them. Light dispells darkness. You cannot mix the two.

"They conform to the customs and unite in the pursuits of the lovers of pleasure, in order to retain their friendship, and exert an influence to win them to the truth. The plea is not new. The same work has been often attempted since the opposing forces of good and evil first existed in the world. The result has ever been the same. Conformity to worldly customs converts the church to the world. It never converts the world to Christ. "The friendship of the world is enmity with God. Whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God."

That's the problem in the church today, it has been converted to the world!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Naomi]

Dgrimm ....

Mutual ... LOL Gotta love 'em to God

[Woody]

Quote:

How can we witness if we isolate ourselves?

This is something our church has failed to realize.

Just look at most of our church "programs" - they are designed to be done IN our church instead of the church going out and meeting the needs of the communnity. We need to go OUT and meet them - not expect them to come to us. As Naomi said - this was the example that Jesus gave the church.

[Gibs]

Ah, but Jesus didn't always speak easy and pleasant, He could be stronger than John the Baptist and was many times. Remember they crucified Him for some reason.

Mt 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,

Mt 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

Mt 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Mt 23:25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.

Lu 12:56 Ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky and of the earth; but how is it that ye do not discern this time?

Mt 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

Later it is He judges the world but came to save as many as would comply.

What I am seeing is that the church is converted to the world and loves the world.

It would rather have the worlds teachers than Jesus Christ's who needs no help from unordained of Him men.

Why were all but John Martyred and Christ Crucified? Why were the reformers and those of them 6,000,000 aprox. martyred up through the ages? They went against the error in the church and the world.

Joh 15:18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[M. T. Cross]

Being part of the community, being out in the eye of the public, interacting, engaging people in friendship. That is going to open many many more doors for ya'll to talk to people about your beliefs.

If you truly believe that you have a mission from God to convert people, to bring them to the truth you have, then this whole "being seperate" thing is a big huge ole' roadblock. This is why anyone I know that is not an Adventist thinks that SDA's are freaky people and exhibit cult like behaviour. I never know what to say to them to dispell that. Because I know in my community you see all the other churches doing things to help out. Never the SDA church however - or if they do they sure are not advertising it. Like I said once before, even the location of the church - outside of town and seperate from the community is a bad thing. Certainly discourages any drop in traffic, people that might hear the hymns being sung or whatever and stop in to see what this church is all about. Not gonna happen whe its a mile out of town.

[Woody]

You raise some excellent points EC

[Gibs]

The main reson SDA's are held back from the others is the Sabbath. They don't really have any solid reason to defend the Sunday satisfying the commandment and don't want to be confronted on that issue. They willingly will dicuss other issues.

I have two friends I made out riding my bike on the bike trail that now they have reformed on the Sabbath. The man is a solid believer but can't get his wife to see it but told me a couple weeks ago he thinks she is seeing it. The other one is a lady and she confronted me with the question if she had grieved away the Holy Spirit. I immediately told her, No You Have Not! She wanted to know how I could know that. I told her, if you had you wouldn't have asked me that question.

I usually met and talked to each of them about every day and sometimes the three of us together. She came to see the Sabbath very quickly and gave her mother what I had given her and she become converted. What the great thing is out of that was her Mom was so glad to see her daughter come back to Christ that they now are very close and were very far apart before, almost not on speaking terms.

I didn't get on the Sabbath issue until I could see that they were ready to go deeper into a deeper and growing experience.

He was raised a Catholic and for awhile I saw it was hard for him to not deny it and he told me, I want to be in denial but the truth downs me. He didn't want to talk then for weeks and then finally he stops me and says I'm not in denial anymore.

So I hope he can get his wife in the truth of it too.

Believe it or not all of them, the Mother, the Lady and the Man and his Wife solidly agree on the salvation issue and the Man's sunday Pastor preaches it the same. And I didn't school them much about that at all and was surprised to find that is how they believed.

What matters most is how great is the Love for the Truth and of course He is the Truth and He is Love and He is the Way and He is The Life.

We have become good friends and others who are Christians at times would also stop and chat with us and when warm weather comes again and I'm still able maybe that circle will grow. They are younger than I and it may still go on with them as they love to witness the truth they have come to know.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

The word bonding is interesting.

It reminds me of a Father bonding with His children.

God bonds with us because He loves us. WE are sinful and polluted - yet He bonds with us.

I feel that the church needs to do the same with the sinful world - we need to bond with them. After all - don't we love each of them with all of our heart and desire the best for them. Eternal Life.

[Naomi]

Gibs, you have a wonderful testimony. It makes me happy for the mother and daughter. I suspect the husband will help his wife to accept it as well.

It sounds as though you have followed the guidance of the Holy Spirit. I feel certain that your group of friends will grow.

After all is said and done, all we can do is plant the seed and the Holy Spirit will do the rest.

What we should all pray for is that the people we come into contact with will see our life lived to the glory of God. That they will want what we have.

[olger]

HEY ALL

WE are to be witness for GOD AND JESUS CHRIST to

other people but we are not to partake of the world

pleasures and its customs over the bible truths

dgrimm60

Dougie be soundin gOOd!

[Woody]

Is there ANYone here willing to state that they stand for partaking of the world's pleasures and it's customs - over the Bible Truths?

[Woody]

SILENCE ...

Just what I suspected.

Sometimes silence speaks volumes.

[Naomi]

Is there ANYone here willing to state that they stand for partaking of the world's pleasures and it's customs - over the Bible Truths?

Just read this post. The answer is NO. However, if Idid not consider myself to be a Christian-in training, I would do an admiral job of partaking of all the world's pleasures, and customs possible.

After all if I am not anticipating meeting family and friends in Heaven I would not want to miss out on anything.

[Gibs]

Woody, You ask,

"Is there ANYone here willing to state that they stand for partaking of the world's pleasures and it's customs - over the Bible Truths?"

No I don't find it that way glad to say and I really don't think any mean it that way. I sure hope not. We just differ on how it is at least in the words we express. I don't care to be one who throws "heat" as I don't get heated about it as I've lived long enough that I know people express different views and yet may understand the same.

We must be humble so as to learn and then strong enough to teach what we know to be truth. We each will meet someday with the True One who will set all and each straight and all and each will bow and confess He is Just.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Woody

Is there ANYone here willing to state that they stand for partaking of the world's pleasures and it's customs - over the Bible Truths?

Just read this post. The answer is NO. However, if Idid not consider myself to be a Christian-in training, I would do an admiral job of partaking of all the world's pleasures, and customs possible.

After all if I am not anticipating meeting family and friends in Heaven I would not want to miss out on anything.

Good Comment. I agree. We have much to be thankful for as Christians.

[Gibs]

What I do see is the churches, all are becoming more worldly and you can choose your name for that. I see it going in the wrong direction and feel it is leading to disaster. The world all surely see is becoming more wicked and corrupted.

Where can one see much future for a decent life anymore for their young. Even if you are able to get them a high worldly education how many out of 100 will be able to get a Job even with the PHD's etc. they may get on their name.

I have a granddaughter who is an eye doctor and can only find a day or two of work now and then and has a tremendous bill to pay for her education. It is not getting gritty it already is and we are to see it get worse fast I'm afraid.

There is only one way out of all this and that is Christ's way and His Way Only and the gritty part there is He Himself said "few will find it"!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[M. T. Cross]

The main reson SDA's are held back from the others is the Sabbath. They don't really have any solid reason to defend the Sunday satisfying the commandment and don't want to be confronted on that issue. They willingly will dicuss other issues.

I have two friends I made out riding my bike on the bike trail that now they have reformed on the Sabbath. The man is a solid believer but can't get his wife to see it but told me a couple weeks ago he thinks she is seeing it. The other one is a lady and she confronted me with the question if she had grieved away the Holy Spirit. I immediately told her, No You Have Not! She wanted to know how I could know that. I told her, if you had you wouldn't have asked me that question.

I usually met and talked to each of them about every day and sometimes the three of us together. She came to see the Sabbath very quickly and gave her mother what I had given her and she become converted. What the great thing is out of that was her Mom was so glad to see her daughter come back to Christ that they now are very close and were very far apart before, almost not on speaking terms.

I didn't get on the Sabbath issue until I could see that they were ready to go deeper into a deeper and growing experience.

He was raised a Catholic and for awhile I saw it was hard for him to not deny it and he told me, I want to be in denial but the truth downs me. He didn't want to talk then for weeks and then finally he stops me and says I'm not in denial anymore.

So I hope he can get his wife in the truth of it too.

Believe it or not all of them, the Mother, the Lady and the Man and his Wife solidly agree on the salvation issue and the Man's sunday Pastor preaches it the same. And I didn't school them much about that at all and was surprised to find that is how they believed.

What matters most is how great is the Love for the Truth and of course He is the Truth and He is Love and He is the Way and He is The Life.

We have become good friends and others who are Christians at times would also stop and chat with us and when warm weather comes again and I'm still able maybe that circle will grow. They are younger than I and it may still go on with them as they love to witness the truth they have come to know.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Not to diminish what you accomplished their Gibs, but thats a lot like preaching to the chior.

How do you go about reaching non believers if you isolate yourself from their world? How do they see your example?

[Gibs]

It might even be best if people around you didn't know you were a Sabbath keeper. Then it is easier to get in a converstion with them and when you find points they want more light on is your entering opportunity and gives them a friendship and confidence in you. Build on that until you have it srong enough you can feel out how touchy they are of the Sabbath question. Some you will find you will just infuriate them further. Don't destroy the comradery you have made and leave it lay as the Holy Spirit may still be doing work there and it might be best to watch and wait for a softening. Truth seekers usually don't get hot but may be somewhat defensive. It may take time, so don't expect too much at once.

I believe the time is coming when many will be driven to find someone to get the truth to them as the Spirit will push some hard at close to the finish. You may be guided by His Spirit to them or them to you.

The time to work is getting short believe me. Get ready to know how to deal with people who have questions and most do. Find that as that is your entry point.

Each of us is given certain talents to use to work in His Vineyard. So we each must learn were we are better fitted to do.

But in no way do I need to bow in bonding with the world to be a help in pulling someone out of the "ditch".

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.