Disputatious and Difficult - like Jesus

[Bravus]

Doesn't quite compute, does it?

[phkrause]

? No? I guess! Not sure what your getting at.

[Gail]

How about contentious?

[Bravus]

My point was just about the on-going quest to be like Him, and the characteristics of those who are. Perhaps the 'fruit of the spirit' provides useful clues.

[Bravus]

When we find ourselves being disputatious, difficult and contentious (thanx Gail), perhaps it's time to look in the mirror Christ provides.

[Gail]

My point was just about the on-going quest to be like Him, and the characteristics of those who are. Perhaps the 'fruit of the spirit' provides useful clues.

Thanks, Bravus. I'm thinking long and hard on this.

[John317]

Quote:

The Elijah Message.--In this age, just prior to the second coming of Christ in the clouds of heaven, God calls for men who will prepare a people to stand in the great day of the Lord. Just such a work as that which John did, is to be carried on in these last days. The Lord is giving messages to His people, through the instruments He has chosen, and He would have all heed the admonitions and warnings He sends. The message preceding the public ministry of Christ was, Repent, publicans and sinners; repent, Pharisees and Sadducees; "for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Our message is not to be one of peace and safety. As a people who believe in Christ's soon appearing, we have a definite message to bear,--"Prepare to meet thy God." {4BC 1184.6}

Our message must be as direct as was that of John. He rebuked kings for their iniquity. Notwithstanding the peril his life was in, he never allowed truth to languish on his lips. Our work in this age must be as faithfully done. . . . {4BC 1184.7}

In this time of well-nigh universal apostasy, God calls upon His messengers to proclaim His law in the spirit and power of Elias. As John the Baptist, in preparing a people for Christ's first advent, called their attention to the Ten Commandments, so we are to give, with no uncertain sound, the message: "Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come." With the earnestness that characterized Elijah the prophet and John the Baptist, we are to strive to prepare the way for Christ's second advent (SW March 21, 1905). {4BC 1184.8}

Quote:

Matthew 15:3-9

He answered them, "And why do you break the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition? [4] For God commanded, 'Honor your father and your mother,' and, 'Who ever reviles father or mother must surely die.' [5] But you say, 'If anyone tells his father or his mother, What you would have gained from me is given to God, [6] he need not honor his father.' So for the sake of your tradition you have made void the word of God. [7] You hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy of you, when he said:

[8] " 'This people honors me with their lips,

but their heart is far from me;

[9] in vain do they worship me,

teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.' "

Quote:

Matthew 16:23-27

But he turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a hindrance to me. For you are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of man."

[24] Then Jesus told his disciples, "If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. [25] For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. [26] For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his life? Or what shall a man give in return for his life? [27] For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done.

Quote:

Matthew 23:13-27

"But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. For you neither enter yourselves nor allow those who would enter to go in. [14]

[15] Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel across sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte, you make him twice as much a child of hell as yourselves.

[16] "Woe to you, blind guides, who say, 'If anyone swears by the temple, it is nothing, but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.' [17] You blind fools! For which is greater, the gold or the temple that has made the gold sacred? [18] And you say, 'If anyone swears by the altar, it is nothing, but if anyone swears by the gift that is on the altar, he is bound by his oath.' [19] You blind men! For which is greater, the gift or the altar that makes the gift sacred? [20] So whoever swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. [21] And whoever swears by the temple swears by it and by him who dwells in it. [22] And whoever swears by heaven swears by the throne of God and by him who sits upon it.

[23] "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others. [24] You blind guides, straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel!

[25] "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and the plate, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. [26] You blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and the plate, that the outside also may be clean.

[27] "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within are full of dead people's bones and all uncleanness.

[Bravus]

I knew those texts would be coming. Several points in relation to them:

1. Consider what proportion they are of all of Jesus' ministry. Count up all the red words in the Bible and see what proportion is rebuke. Then do the same for some posters here...

2. What is the focus of these strong words? It is the way people treat those in need, and our attitudes toward material possessions.

3. Who is the focus of these strong words? It's the powerful, not the weak and meek and lowly.

Following Jesus' example in all things is a most admirable - and a most difficult - goal.

As always, any finger I point leaves three pointing back at me: I first need to challenge *myself* to mirror the character and actions of Jesus.

[phkrause]

[Tom Wetmore]

The further question that should be considered is whether those rebukes by Jesus were done as an example for us to follow or to take to heart in our own introspection.

I also must consider if I measure up to being worthy to be one to rebuke. It is not WWJD, but am I Jesus' equal to that task? His message to human rebukers was very pointed, "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone." A rebuke is a figurative stone.

[Twilight II]

I knew those texts would be coming. Several points in relation to them:

1. Consider what proportion they are of all of Jesus' ministry. Count up all the red words in the Bible and see what proportion is rebuke. Then do the same for some posters here...

2. What is the focus of these strong words? It is the way people treat those in need, and our attitudes toward material possessions.

3. Who is the focus of these strong words? It's the powerful, not the weak and meek and lowly.

Following Jesus' example in all things is a most admirable - and a most difficult - goal.

As always, any finger I point leaves three pointing back at me: I first need to challenge *myself* to mirror the character and actions of Jesus.

[Bravus]

On the contrary: I am condemning the same behaviour consistently everywhere.

But condemnation makes up a very small part of my overall posting pattern.

And my post to you above is *exactly* of the kind of statements that Jesus made, as quoted by John317: challenges to the arrogant and self-satisfied.

Seriously, think back, read back, over all your posts in this forum in the past week or month.

What proportion actively raised up Christ, salvation and others?

I'm not taking any moral high ground, just trying to call it as I see it, but I'm happy to face that challenge myself.

[Twilight II]

On the contrary: I am condemning the same behaviour consistently everywhere.

But condemnation makes up a very small part of my overall posting pattern.

And my post to you above is *exactly* of the kind of statements that Jesus made, as quoted by John317: challenges to the arrogant and self-satisfied.

Seriously, think back, read back, over all your posts in this forum in the past week or month.

What proportion actively raised up Christ, salvation and others?

I'm not taking any moral high ground, just trying to call it as I see it, but I'm happy to face that challenge myself.

You are claiming one thing Bravus whilst exhibiting another.

And still trying to justify the words I quoted from you above.

Look in the sand Bravus, look in the sand...

[Twilight II]

Your pre-supposition that Christ did not challenge error is extremely faulty.

It is explicit in Gods Character to challenge and rebuke error.

But what is interesting, is that when someone you do not agree with does it, they are "unChristlike".

But when you do it, it is "Christlike".

Again, this reveals your constant appeal to an arbitrary position.

[Twilight II]

And it is interesting that you claim that I am a drain on the community.

Yet it is you that starts another discussion, that is obviously little more than an attempt to gain support for your push to have me ejected from the board.

After all, this is your board isn't it...?

And you should have the say who posts on it or not?

[Twilight II]

Of course, you will now claim that contention is ruining the discussion.

Which you started out of your own contention.

[Woody]

I knew those texts would be coming. Several points in relation to them:

1. Consider what proportion they are of all of Jesus' ministry. Count up all the red words in the Bible and see what proportion is rebuke. Then do the same for some posters here...

2. What is the focus of these strong words? It is the way people treat those in need, and our attitudes toward material possessions.

3. Who is the focus of these strong words? It's the powerful, not the weak and meek and lowly.

Following Jesus' example in all things is a most admirable - and a most difficult - goal.

As always, any finger I point leaves three pointing back at me: I first need to challenge *myself* to mirror the character and actions of Jesus.

[CoAspen]

And it is interesting that you claim that I am a drain on the community.

Yet it is you that starts another discussion, that is obviously little more than an attempt to gain support for your push to have me ejected from the board.

After all, this is your board isn't it...?

And you should have the say who posts on it or not?

Paranoia?????

[Bravus]

(popping in for 5 seconds)

No, it's not all about you, Twilight. *You* made it about you.

There are plenty of candidates.

And, as Eric Burdon would have it, "Lord, I know I'm one".

[Twilight II]

Originally Posted By: Twilight II

And it is interesting that you claim that I am a drain on the community.

Yet it is you that starts another discussion, that is obviously little more than an attempt to gain support for your push to have me ejected from the board.

After all, this is your board isn't it...?

And you should have the say who posts on it or not?

Paranoia?????

Why would it be paranoia, when Bravus has made repeated calls and suggestions publically that I should be forced to leave the forum?

[Twilight II]

(popping in for 5 seconds)

No, it's not all about you, Twilight. *You* made it about you.

There are plenty of candidates.

And, as Eric Burdon would have it, "Lord, I know I'm one".

Actually, this is about you Bravus.

Yet you do not see it.

Look in the sand Bravus.

[CoAspen]

That which you refer too...I have never seen!

Perception....perception...perception...

[LifeHiscost]

That which you refer too...I have never seen!

Perception....perception...perception...

"“I tell you the truth, one of you will betray me.”

Greatly distressed, each one asked in turn, “Am I the one, Lord?”

He replied, “One of you who has just eaten from this bowl with me will betray me. For the Son of Man must die, as the Scriptures declared long ago. But how terrible it will be for the one who betrays him.

Then Judas, which betrayed him, answered and said, Master, is it I? He said unto him, Thou hast said."Matthew 26:21,23-25 NLT

Who! Me!!!!

God blesses!

[CoAspen]

Quotes mean what???

[LifeHiscost]

Me too!

God blesses!