Film Review: “One Nation Under God” (2011): Misinterpreted facts and

[phkrause]

http://religiousliberty.tv/film-review-%...tm_medium=email

[teresaq]

Thanks PK.

The author noted things that have been bothering me since I have become aware of this movement.

Quote:

He implies that if America forgets their Christian heritage and begins to allow abortion and gay marriage then they will be destroyed. This statement is not just bad theology, but it is also offensive to every group of people who have been oppressed in the history of America. So God’s destruction will not fall because America enslaved Africans, destroyed their families, raped and killed them, but it will fall because of the unborn and gay people? America did not forget who they were when they were oppressing women or Asians or Catholics or any other group, but now is the time America is moving away from its Judeo-Christian principles. As with Gingrich’s statement about longing for a “classical America,” this statement bothered me. Dr. Dobson is using his theology to whitewash history, and to ignore the fact that America has never been the Christian nation that these people envision it to have been.

I have also wondered about these people's sense of morality over this very issue. We came into a land that was not our own then attempted to wipe out the Original inhabitants of this taking their land at will and relegating them to reservations if they chose not to "assimilate" and disappear. We felt free to use the bible to enslave a whole race of people for centuries, selling off their children and separating husband and wife with nary a qualm, yet we think gay marriage will "destroy" marriage! :0

Not to mention how we have treated every ethnic group arriving in this country - and how we put Japanese Americans in concentration camps, but not German Americans. And on and on and on...

Quote:

This lack of critical thought was the most appalling thing to me. These people were being sold on all kinds of historical, logical, and biblical inaccuracies, and they were more than willing to accept it without inspection.

I also have wondered, but more at SDAs who supposedly are well-studied in the religious persecution of the middle ages as well as the religious persecution in this very country. I remember when they "rolled up the sidewalks" on Sunday...

Ahhh, the memory of the American people...Its shorter than my patience. :(

[doug yowell]

The author noted things that have been bothering me since I have become aware of this movement.

As usual this kind of revisionistic, neohistorical presentation is a distortion not only of our country's history but also of our historical theology. Apparently you choose to forget the response to slavery that was the theology of the day. Ellen White was in perfect harmony with most theologians of her day as well as Abraham Lincoln when she categorically spoke of the Civil War as being God's judgment on the Union for allowing slavery!!! Over 600,000 dead Americans!! So God actually DID care about America's immoral and brutal practices enough to remove His restraining hand of protection from them. Your "patriotic" and theologically correct attack on God's inattention to National morality is an attack on the theology of Ellen White and all our founders too.

[teresaq]

The author noted things that have been bothering me since I have become aware of this movement.

Quote:

He implies that if America forgets their Christian heritage and begins to allow abortion and gay marriage then they will be destroyed. This statement is not just bad theology, but it is also offensive to every group of people who have been oppressed in the history of America. So God’s destruction will not fall because America enslaved Africans, destroyed their families, raped and killed them, but it will fall because of the unborn and gay people?

[phkrause]

You didn't address us stealing this country from the original inhabitants.

Nor our mistreatment of every ethnic group to land on these shores, just for starters...

You have only addressed one group, perhaps you overlooked his mention of other groups, or perhaps you are unaware of American history? What has been God's judgments on those actions?

And who, pray tell, were the "most theologians" of Ellen White's day? Please name each and every one, as well as each and every one that was for slavery.

That will always be besides the point teresaq. Well they just deserved what they got. I do think that Doug had some good points though.

[doug yowell]

Doug, for real?

You didn't address us stealing this country from the original inhabitants.

I didn't address it because it needs no addressing. First,the "first inhabitants" were a bunch of animists scattered throughout the vast expanse of North America. Some were peace loving natives who lived in fear of their brutal, war mongering neighbors who threatened them with slavery,death, torture, and forced them from their lands into a nomatic lifestyle. 2) The Native Americans were not in the habit of creating the impression that the entire country was theirs. Thus we "stole" very little from them.3)If conquering lands and peoples was unique to this evil people then every civilization is equally as evil including the Native Americans who stole the land that wasn't "theirs".4)In her publishing EGW never mentions the thing that you use as proof of America's evil Christian heritage. And when she did it was God's judgment for allowing slavery. Do you think she really missed something?According to the GC this country became a great bastion of freedom and religious liberty and she refers often in her writings to God's providence in the establishment of this form of government and it's citizens.No mention of it's vast library of hypocrisy.

[olger]

Bleeding hearts can only be fixed with surgery. Some good points Sir Doug.

[doug yowell]

You have only addressed one group, perhaps you overlooked his mention of other groups, or perhaps you are unaware of American history? What has been God's judgments on those actions?

I addressed the main complaint you raised and showed conclusively that you have openly badmouthed the views that EGW and the huge number of Christian abolutionists historically advocated. You just choose to not admit that you hold a completely different view of American history and God's interaction within it than EGW's. Please find one reference of hers or of any American Christian abolitionst (maybe even A.Lincoln)of the time that didn't agree that slavery was the cause of God's displeasure with a "Christian nation". When you've done that we can move on to the other of God's judgments.You seem willing enough to accept a renditon of American history without checking out the claims or logic of it's proponent. That may put you in harmony with the world view of Noam Chomsky but not with the founders of the SDA movement.The author of your article may not believe that God actually involves Himself with the affairs of nations, but that view is foreign to the founders of our country. Remember, "In God We Trust" (Declaration of Independence 101)?

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: teresaq(sda)

You didn't address us stealing this country from the original inhabitants.

Nor our mistreatment of every ethnic group to land on these shores, just for starters...

You have only addressed one group, perhaps you overlooked his mention of other groups, or perhaps you are unaware of American history? What has been God's judgments on those actions?

And who, pray tell, were the "most theologians" of Ellen White's day? Please name each and every one, as well as each and every one that was for slavery.

Well they just deserved what they got.

[doug yowell]

And who, pray tell, were the "most theologians" of Ellen White's day? Please name each and every one, as well as each and every one that was for slavery.

You made a claim, Doug, back it up!

It's easily ascertainable history.A quick google search will tell the story. Even those in sympathy with slavery believed that the war was God's judgment, only for different reasons.But Ok,for the sake of argument, let's say I just made up that claim with absolutely no evidense at all. And now that you've proven me wrong on that, why don't you explain why you think that Ellen White's claim that the Civil War was God's judgment on the country (especially the Union)for allowing slavery was an example of her misunderstanding of God's interest or activity in the moral affairs of this country? Do you deny that she said this?

[doug yowell]

b]Alas that this incident truly represents the course of some who are looked upon by the world as the representatives of Christ! {ST December 8, 1881, par. 10 Guess she didn't think much of the original inhabitants of our country, did she?

I did notice that she used the word "some". You seem to simply apply that to the entire Christian population which includes all of the not "some".

[doug yowell]

I was shown that if the object of this war had been to exterminate slavery, then, if desired, England would have helped the North. But England fully understands the existing feelings in the Government, and that the war is not to do away slavery, but merely to preserve the Union; and it is not for her interest to have it preserved. Our Government has been very proud and independent. The people of this nation have exalted themselves to heaven, and have looked down upon monarchical governments, and triumphed in their boasted liberty, while the institution of slavery, that was a thousand times worse than the tyranny exercised by monarchial governments, was suffered to exist and was cherished. In this land of light a system is cherished which allows one portion of the human family to enslave another portion, degrading millions of human beings to the level of the brute creation. The equal of this sin is not to be found in heathen lands. {1T 258.2} Read the whole chapter.

I have and the above quote verifies that she viewed the war as the punishment for slavery. Interestingly enough, I read that same quote from a critic of EGW's prophetic gift. He contrasted it to her other quote that stated that the War was God's punishment for slavery and that the South would also suffer for it even more.It was his argument that the fact that she was just mirroring everyone else's take on the war (he gave ample examples)was no proof that she was a prophet.It is my belief that the Most High God rules in the kingdom of men, and that a people that have the most light of the Scriptures will pay a great price for their violation of it's principles. To argue that God had no hand in the punishment of America for it's toleration of slavery is to argue that He also had no hand in it's formation and blessings. That's exactly what your author is defending.And exactly the opposite of what Adventism has always taught.

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: teresaq(sda)

And who, pray tell, were the "most theologians" of Ellen White's day? Please name each and every one, as well as each and every one that was for slavery.

You made a claim, Doug, back it up!

It's easily ascertainable history.A quick google search will tell the story. Even those in sympathy with slavery believed that the war was God's judgment, only for different reasons.