‎"Sin forsaken is one of the best evidences of sin forgiven."

[JoeMo]

RLH, It is not in the Bible, I was proposing an alternative application of the message to Laodecia - "hot" = grace; "cold" = works; "lukewarm" = mixing grace and works. You and Woddy make it clear I'm gonna have to work on my posting skills. I've never done this before on a live forum.

[Guest]

I see

[JoeMo]

Club V12, I agree completely that His grace should lead us to works. Works are the evidence of God's grace; not a means of salvation. If someone's works do not provide positive witness to their faith, then I would question whether or not they are taking advantage of the grace so freely offered to them.

[Woody]

Quote:

then I would question whether or not they are taking advantage of the grace so freely offered to them.

Why do you feel the need to question that about their personal life?

[Woody]

Sorry Woody, I didn't mean to be unclear. What I am saying is that I am persuaded that Jesus wants us to either rely on His grace or our works; He doesn't want us to mix them. He will hold us to the standard we choose. He will honor our free will to choose how we will relate to Him.

Hey - COOL. I'm glad that I dragged it out of you. I appreciate you saying this. I agree.

[Naomi]

His grace or our works? Wait, thats the only two choices? May I suggest one more, His grace leading to our works!

[Woody]

Quote:

His grace or our works? Wait, thats the only two choices? May I suggest one more, His grace leading to our works!

Sorry Club - that's still only two.

IF one has His Grace - it is impossible not to have works. But the works are His and not ours. What He does in me - I take NO credit for. So, I don't believe it is possible to have His grace lead to OUR works. For if they are real - they will be HIS works IN US.

Sorry to be so technical with your good thoughts. I apologize in advance of pressing the submit button.

[olger]

Originally Posted By: ClubV12

His grace or our works? Wait, thats the only two choices? May I suggest one more, His grace leading to our works!

Stupendous

[Gibs]

Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[cheddar]

Quote:

Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death. Ex. 35:2

[cardw]

He will in no way clear the guilty. Obey and live, for why will you die?

The second death is as certain as the sun coming up tommorow. MOST will be lost, as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be when the Lord comes again. Most will perish to everlasting doom.

That's called the bait and switch.

It's free for 100 dollars postage and shipping.

When I was a believer I found I could always find something I was doing wrong. This list is pretty long. And when you add Ellen White your list is almost endless.

So I was always uncertain of exactly how much sin I could have in my life and still be saved. To my mind the only way to be saved, under that system, was to have no sin.

I never found a text in the bible that said that I do my best and Jesus makes up the rest.

I only found texts like above.

"He will in no way clear the guilty."

I was always guilty, so I would not be saved. It's a crappy way to live life.

My mind will not allow me to live with the contradiction so when I was 17 I told god I was signing up for cold because hot wasn't working for me. What a relief that was.

So you convinced me that being a non believer is better because if this life is all I got I would rather live it free from that type of guilt and be lost than live my life under Christianity and still be lost.

I have since realized that it's all nonsense, but that's another story. LOL

[Gibs]

When sin is forsaken it is also a good sign of true conversion, being born again from above and dead of the old man or woman and no longer partakes in sin.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[cardw]

When sin is forsaken it is also a good sign of true conversion, being born again from above and dead of the old man or woman and no longer partakes in sin.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

And since no one can agree that this means sinless or not, know one really knows if they are truly converted.

And there are so many ways to sin.

[Gibs]

Here is what John said about it,

1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

We know when we sin as the law revives to condemn us. Until we do and are "born agsin from above" His Law is in our hearts and is our love to do and is of us to do. But if we fall away then the Law as a schoomaster revives and we find we are dead again in trespass or trespasses.

Ro 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Samie]

Originally Posted By: ClubV12

He will in no way clear the guilty. Obey and live, for why will you die?

The second death is as certain as the sun coming up tommorow. MOST will be lost, as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be when the Lord comes again. Most will perish to everlasting doom.

That's called the bait and switch.

It's free for 100 dollars postage and shipping.

When I was a believer I found I could always find something I was doing wrong. This list is pretty long. And when you add Ellen White your list is almost endless.

So I was always uncertain of exactly how much sin I could have in my life and still be saved. To my mind the only way to be saved, under that system, was to have no sin.

I never found a text in the bible that said that I do my best and Jesus makes up the rest.

I only found texts like above.

"He will in no way clear the guilty."

I was always guilty, so I would not be saved. It's a crappy way to live life.

My mind will not allow me to live with the contradiction so when I was 17 I told god I was signing up for cold because hot wasn't working for me. What a relief that was.

So you convinced me that being a non believer is better because if this life is all I got I would rather live it free from that type of guilt and be lost than live my life under Christianity and still be lost.

I have since realized that it's all nonsense, but that's another story. LOL

Hi cardw;

On the cross, God through Christ, saved and forgiven us from all sins (1 Tim 1:15; Col 2:13). God fashioned us into the body of His Son (Eph 2:11-19). Current sins committed are not imputed against man (2 Cor 5:18, 19). God even refuses to remember any and all sins (Heb 10: 16, 17), no matter how hard one tries to remind God about them.

But we need to overcome all evil (Rom 12:21), because only overcomers will not be blotted out from the book of life (Rev 3:5). Each time we commit sin, that is proof enough we have not yet overcome that evil in our life and we have only ourselves to blame because being part of the body of Christ, we are therefore attached to Him Who is our Strength (Phil 4:13). It is then NOT anymore a question of INCAPABILITY but rather a REFUSAL to overcome.

But praise God; He waits for us throughout our entire lifetime to become overcomers for it is only after a man dies when judgment is meted (Heb 9:27) whether to blot his name out of the book of life or not.

In Christ our Savior & Righteous Judge,

Samie

[cardw]

Hi cardw;

On the cross, God through Christ, saved and forgiven us from all sins (1 Tim 1:15; Col 2:13). God fashioned us into the body of His Son (Eph 2:11-19). Current sins committed are not imputed against man (2 Cor 5:18, 19). God even refuses to remember any and all sins (Heb 10: 16, 17), no matter how hard one tries to remind God about them.

But we need to overcome all evil (Rom 12:21), because only overcomers will not be blotted out from the book of life (Rev 3:5). Each time we commit sin, that is proof enough we have not yet overcome that evil in our life and we have only ourselves to blame because being part of the body of Christ, we are therefore attached to Him Who is our Strength (Phil 4:13). It is then NOT anymore a question of INCAPABILITY but rather a REFUSAL to overcome.

But praise God; He waits for us throughout our entire lifetime to become overcomers for it is only after a man dies when judgment is meted (Heb 9:27) whether to blot his name out of the book of life or not.

In Christ our Savior & Righteous Judge,

Samie

Ah the word games. It's not incapacity to overcome, but refusal? You know I asked god for years to overcome my attraction to women because lusting after women is a sin according to the Bible. No change. You know why? Because you are asking to overcome the strongest instinct we have as men. And people wonder why there is such sexual craziness in church leadership.

Anything that I have gained control over has come from my own efforts. I have never seen evidence that god helped me do anything. Not one bit of evidence.

I waited on god a long time. Once I realized nothing was going to happen, I soon learned to be responsible for my own choices. That has proven far more successful than asking god for help. You know why, because that god isn't there. The sooner one learns that the sooner you can stop wasting time trying to be saved from nothing you need saving from in the first place.

This is like me creating a robot and saying anything you do good is because of me and anything you do that's bad is your fault. I created the robot so anything it does is because I created it that way.

How crazy is it for a god to create us with this powerful sex drive and then say don't think about it. Nuts isn't it.

[Dr. Rich]

Read what God told Cain and you will see that we have the power of choice and we must overcome sin ourselves. Jesus showed us that we can now do this. Jesus' death did not get rid of sin, it just made it possible for us to make the choice to obey all ten commandments and the words of Jesus in order to be with the group found in Rev. 12:17.

[cardw]

Read what God told Cain and you will see that we have the power of choice and we must overcome sin ourselves. Jesus showed us that we can now do this. Jesus' death did not get rid of sin, it just made it possible for us to make the choice to obey all ten commandments and the words of Jesus in order to be with the group found in Rev. 12:17.

Ah, but you see it is just not quite clear if one is actually good enough. There's always one more hoop to jump through.

And that's the con. You have to keep coming back for more because you are never quite sure if you're saved or not. So keep giving that money and keep working hard and maybe you will make it.

Because there are so few who actually make it because we are just so sinful simply because we, by our bad luck, were born on this planet.

All of this is just vague enough to keep everyone guessing.

[Samie]

Ah the word games. It's not incapacity to overcome, but refusal? You know I asked god for years to overcome my attraction to women because lusting after women is a sin according to the Bible. No change. You know why? Because you are asking to overcome the strongest instinct we have as men. And people wonder why there is such sexual craziness in church leadership.

[Guest]

Read what God told Cain and you will see that we have the power of choice and we must overcome sin ourselves. Jesus showed us that we can now do this. Jesus' death did not get rid of sin, it just made it possible for us to make the choice to obey all ten commandments and the words of Jesus in order to be with the group found in Rev. 12:17.

First you say that Cain had the power to choose, then you say Jesus' death makes it possible to have the power of choice.

If Cain had the power of choice, then Jesus' death isn't what makes it possible to choose. Which way is it? You can't have it both ways, like you have stated here.

Which one?

[cardw]

Originally Posted By: Dr. Rich

Read what God told Cain and you will see that we have the power of choice and we must overcome sin ourselves. Jesus showed us that we can now do this. Jesus' death did not get rid of sin, it just made it possible for us to make the choice to obey all ten commandments and the words of Jesus in order to be with the group found in Rev. 12:17.

First you say that Cain had the power to choose, then you say Jesus' death makes it possible to have the power of choice.

If Cain had the power of choice, then Jesus' death isn't what makes it possible to choose. Which way is it? You can't have it both ways, like you have stated here.

Which one?

That's a great presentation of good reasoning.

Which way is it? I suspect you'll get some type of explanation that Jesus' death applies from the foundation of the world.

[John317]

....just for the record - the new theology and the 1888 message are not the same thing even though many think that they are.

That's for sure.

The 1888 Message is that we can't possibly work out way to salvation, but it is also the message that God empowers us to resist and overcome the sins that the Holy Spirit convicts us of.

[John317]

....we must overcome sin ourselves. Jesus showed us that we can now do this. Jesus' death did not get rid of sin, it just made it possible for us to make the choice to obey all ten commandments and the words of Jesus in order to be with the group found in Rev. 12:17.

The entire Bible consistently teaches that sinful, fallen human beings cannot possibly overcome sin on our own, apart from the power of the Holy Spirit.

I agree with you that Jesus' death did not get rid of sin in the world but that He made it possible for us to make the choice to obey God. The choice is ours, for sure, but we need God's grace and power to put the choice into action. We can't give ourselves the new birth-- it is the gift of God:

As John 1: 12, 13 says:

But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, [13] who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

[John317]

...You know I asked god for years to overcome my attraction to women because lusting after women is a sin according to the Bible. No change. You know why? Because you are asking to overcome the strongest instinct we have as men. And people wonder why there is such sexual craziness in church leadership.

There's nothing wrong in being attracted to women. One can be attracted to them without lusting after them. God can and does give people the power to overcome "lusting."

Lusting is not an instinct; it's a habit.

God made humans with very few instincts, and the reason is that God gives us the ability to choose. Sin is a choice, not nature.

[cardw]

Lusting is not an instinct; it's a habit.

Semantics. It's all word games.