If Not "Dead To Sin", Then What?

[Gibs]

Well in all Truth if one is not, he will die in them and take part in the second resurrection.

The sixth chapter of Romans is one of the best studies on this that has ever been done, Please read it carefully, ask for His Spirit to open the understanding and think out each verse and I am sure you will come out Blessed.

Ro 6:1 ¶ What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

Ro 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Ro 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Ro 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Ro 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Ro 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Ro 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Ro 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

Ro 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

Ro 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

Ro 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Ro 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Ro 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

Ro 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Ro 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Ro 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Ro 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Ro 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Ro 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

Ro 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.

Ro 6:21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.

Ro 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

Ro 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gibs]

Adding a statement from EGW for the SDA's on the forum,

"The law reveals to man his sins, but it provides no remedy. While it promises life to the obedient, it declares that death is the portion of the transgressor. The gospel of Christ alone can free him from the condemnation or the defilement of sin. He must exercise repentance toward God, whose law has been transgressed, and faith in Christ, his atoning sacrifice. Thus he obtains “remission of sins that are past,” and becomes a partaker of the divine nature. He is a child of God, having received the spirit of adoption, whereby he cries, “Abba, Father!” {GC88 467.3}

Is he now free to transgress God's law? Says Paul: “Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid; yea, we establish the law.” “How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?” And John declares, “This is the love of God, that we keep his commandments; and his commandments are not grievous.” [Romans 3:31; 6:2; 1 John 5:3.]

In the new birth the heart is brought into harmony with God, as it is brought into accord with his law. When this mighty change has taken place in the sinner, he has passed from death unto life, from sin unto holiness, from transgression and rebellion to obedience and loyalty. The old life of alienation from God has ended; the new life of reconciliation, of faith and love, has begun. Then “the righteousness of the law” will “be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” [Romans 8:4.] And the language of the soul will be, “O how love I thy law! it is my meditation all the day.” [Psalm 119:97.] {GC88 468.1}

“The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.” [Psalm 19:7.] Without the law, men have no just conception of the purity and holiness of God, or of their own guilt and uncleanness. They have no true conviction of sin, and feel no need of repentance. Not seeing their lost condition as violators of God's law, they do not realize their need of the atoning blood of Christ. The hope of salvation is accepted without a radical change of heart or reformation of life. Thus superficial conversions abound, and multitudes are joined to the church who have never been united to Christ. {GC88 468.2}

Erroneous theories of sanctification, also, springing from neglect or rejection of the divine law, have a prominent place in the religious movements of the day. These theories are both false in doctrine, and dangerous in practical results; and the fact that they are so generally finding favor renders it doubly essential that all have a clear understanding of what the Scriptures teach upon this point. {GC88 468.3}

True sanctification is a Bible doctrine. The apostle Paul, in his letter to the Thessalonian church, declares, “This is the will of God, even your sanctification.” And he prays, “The very God of peace sanctify you wholly.” [1 Thessalonians 4:3; 5:23.] The Bible clearly teaches what sanctification is, and how it is to be attained. The Saviour prayed for his disciples, “Sanctify them through thy truth; thy Word is truth.” [John 17:17, 19.] And Paul teaches that believers are to be “sanctified by the Holy Ghost.” [Romans 15:16.]

What is the work of the Holy Spirit? Jesus told his disciples, “When he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth.” [John 16:13.] And the psalmist says, “Thy law is the truth.” By the Word and the Spirit of God are opened to men the great principles of righteousness embodied in his law. And since the law of God is “holy, and just, and good,” a transcript of the divine perfection, it follows that a character formed by obedience to that law will be holy. Christ is a perfect example of such a character. He says, “I have kept my Father's commandments.” “I do always those things that please him.” [John 15:10; 8:29.] The followers of Christ are to become like him,—by the grace of God, to form characters in harmony with the principles of his holy law. This is Bible sanctification." {GC88 469.1}

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gibs]

If we do not become "dead to sin" now in this life can one ever Inherit the eternal life? That would translate to saved in sin wouldn't it?

He saves us for already committed sins and then FROM sin, not in sin.

Read what EGW has to say, She agrees with Paul and more of all the Apostles,

"This is the work that is before every soul who has transgressed the law of God,--repentance toward God for breaking his commandments, which has caused the death of his Son, and faith toward him who imputeth his righteousness unto us. But there is a great misapprehension in regard to what is genuine faith. It is not a mere intellectual assent to truth, or a nominal acceptance of the fact that Christ has died for the salvation of men. Genuine faith works by love, and purifies the soul. There are some who declare that all we have to do is to believe in Jesus, and they think it makes no difference if we trample upon the divine precepts. These statements show that this class do not understand the fundamental principles of the plan of salvation. Genuine faith in Christ will not lead a man to transgress the law; for Christ is not a minister of sin. {RH, July 5, 1892 par. 6}

When the angel announced the birth of Christ to Mary, he said: "Thou shalt call his name Jesus, for he shall save his people from their sins." When John called the attention of his followers to Jesus, he exclaimed, "Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world." {RH, July 5, 1892 par. 7}

"Dead to sin" means it is put away, alive above sin as then one is "born from above".

"Christ in you the Hope of Glory" is the answer!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

If He doesn't save us IN sin - then He is not any good and I am lost.

[Gibs]

He does not, can not and will not save not one in sin! That is absolute!

Here is a strong testimony from EGW for all who will read and still know the testimonies are true,

""Believe, believe, believe in Jesus," is the soothing fallacy that is lulling many to sleep in the cradle of carnal security, and we need to be alarmed. When you bring Jesus into your daily life and character, you will not talk of your feelings, but of what God hath said. When Christ is in the soul, then we will work for those around us who are in darkness.

There will not be heard from any man, "Give me Christ, but away with the commandments of God, I do not want to hear anything about them." We must know that our feet are upon the eternal Rock. It is not for us to bring the word of God to our feelings and ideas, but to bring these to the word of God. "To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." We are in the perils of the last days, and Christ has said that false teachers shall arise in the world, and deceive many with their pernicious doctrines. Then how shall we know the true from the false?--"Ye shall know them by their fruits." Do they teach obedience to the law of God, or do they teach men to break his commandments? We are living in a world of false doctrines, and we must know what is truth. We do not inquire, What is for my convenience? but, What is God's word? If Christ had studied his convenience, he would never have left heaven to come to our world to die, to hang upon the accursed tree for us.

Jesus has died for you, and now what will you do for Jesus? He says, "Love one another, as I have loved you." And if you love Jesus, you will have your feet planted in the blood-stained foot-prints of the Man of Calvary, and at last those who have gained the victory will enter in through the gates into the city, and have a right to the tree of life.

God has given us reasoning faculties, and he wants us to use them. He has given us a chart which marks out for us the only right way to reach eternal life. Study the Scriptures for yourselves. Hear what the voice of the true Shepherd says to you, and then walk in the path of humble obedience, and at last the gift of eternal life will be granted to you. We cannot afford to lose eternal life. May God grant that we may meet this dear people around the great white throne, and with them sing the song of redemption in the kingdom of glory." {RH, June 10, 1890 par. 13}

The Truth will set one free and free from sin. If it could have been saved IN SIN He would never have needed to die and no plan of redemption would have been needed. He could have made us "machines", androids but He desires only the free who are with Him and will to with and of Him and those only can fit in His Building!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gibs]

It is a matter of whose will we will bring ourselves to do, His Will or ours.

We must fall on Him and be broken by Him to do His, when we do ours it proves we need to be broken.

Like a wild Mustang horse, until he is broken he will not do his masters will.

It is not natural for us to not do our will. We must find a love greater outside of self that is greater to break that bond. He first loved us above all and died that we might live. All was given to redeem us that Heaven could bestow so it is a melting of our cold hearts to Him for His unspeakable great gift of True Love.

True Love Begets, brings forth, that True Love back from us to Him,,in great gratitude, praise, worship for He is Righteous True and Just and Good and No Fault can be found in Him!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Dr. Rich]

The author of Romans has deceived MANY into believing that they are going to be saved by grace. He used words that sound nice, but in truth are nothing but fiction. Jesus never said or taught that anyone could ever die to sin or that grace would save anyone. Jesus taught that one must overcome sin, just as He did. Nothing more and nothing less. You do this by keeping all of the ten commandments and following the words (testiment) of Jesus Christ.

Each one of us is responsible for the choice WE make. Choose to obey or not.

Interestingly, the words the serpant told Eve are about the same as found in the 6th chapter of Romans. Check it out.

[Nan]

Just wondering...if all our (own) righteousness, according to Isaiah, is as

filthy rags, how are we saved if not through the grace of God?

[Dr. Rich]

Just wondering...if all our (own) righteousness, according to Isaiah, is as

filthy rags, how are we saved if not through the grace of God?

Guess you need to read the words of Jesus to find out the real truth then. Jesus said to repent, be baptized and follow Him. When one does this, their past sins are wiped out! Jesus said to "Go and sin no more". It has nothing to do with grace!

[Dr. Rich]

If He doesn't save us IN sin - then He is not any good and I am lost.

why is that Woody? Are you able to choose what you do or don't do? Is it possible for you to simply repent, ask for foregivness and choose not to sin anymore?

Was also wondering what you would say IF and when you find yourself on the outside of the door when Jesus tells you that He doesn't know you--would you put the blame on Him for the choices you made that landed you outside lookin in? Would you be like Adam putting the blame on God for allowing Satan as the serpant to be in the Garden? Or when you suddenly find out that grace simply does not get you thru the door, will you blame God for allowing the words of Paul to have been placed in the Bible such as found in 2Cor. 12:9?

[Woody]

My sins put me outside the door Dr. Rich.

But the love of Jesus pulls me in.

My choice is to accept the blood of Jesus. That is what I bank my future on. Not whether I sin or not.

[Dr. Rich]

"IF you love Me, you WILL keep My Commandments". (John 14:15)

"He who has My commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves Me; and he who loves Me shall be loved by My Father, and I will Love him, and will disclose Myself to him." (John 14: 21)

"...If anyone loves Me, he will keep My words; and My Father will love him..." (John 14:23)

"He who does not love Me does not keep My words..." (John 14:24)

"The one who practices sin is of the devil..." (1Jn 3:8)