Christ and His Righteousness

[Guest]

PUBLISHER'S PREFACE

Ellen G. White wrote shortly after the General Conference session in 1888, "The Lord in His great mercy sent a most precious message to His people through Elders Waggoner and Jones." Testimonies to Ministers, p. 91. It is generally conceded there were no records kept of the studies which Elders Waggoner and Jones gave at this meeting. Christ and His Righteousness was published in 1902 in Melbourne, Australia, by a non-Adventist publishing house. We are issuing this facsimile edition as a service to students who wish to study the message which God sent to our church at the close of the last century.

Christ And His Righteousness. __

By E. J. Waggoner

In the first verse of the third chapter of Hebrews we have an exhortation which comprehends all the injunctions given to the Christian. It is this: "Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus." To do this as the Bible enjoins, to consider Christ continually and intelligently, just as He is, will transform one into a perfect Christian, for "by beholding we become changed."1

Ministers of the Gospel have an inspired warrant for keeping the theme, Christ, continually before the people, and directing the attention of the people to Him alone. Paul said to the Corinthians, "I determined not to know anything among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified" (1 Cor. 2:2); and there is no reason to suppose that his preaching to the Corinthians was different in any respect from his preaching elsewhere. Indeed, he tells us that when God revealed His Son in him, it was that he [6] might preach Him among the heathen (Gal. 1:15, 16); and his joy was that to him grace had been given to "preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ." Eph. 3:8. But the fact that the apostles made Christ the burden of all their preaching, is not our sole warrant for magnifying Him. His Name is the only name under heaven given among men whereby we can be saved. Acts 4:12. Christ Himself declared that no man can come unto the Father but by Him. John 14:6. To Nicodemus He said: "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son

[Gibs]

As a few years went by the message became more and more refined and developed into a deeper understanding of the great and wonderful gift of Salvation. I found this around 5 years of refinning from EGW,

" Believing in Jesus as his personal Saviour, accepting of his righteousness by faith, the sinner becomes a partaker of the divine nature, and escapes the corruption that is in the world through lust. It is through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit that the Christian is enabled to resist temptation and to work righteousness. Without the divine nature, without the influence of the Spirit of God, man cannot work out his own salvation; for God must work in him to will and to do of his good pleasure. Christ has said, "Without Me ye can do nothing." {Messenger, April 26, 1893 par. 4}

The fallen race could be restored only through the merit of Him who was equal with God. Though so highly exalted, Christ consented to take upon Him human nature, that He might work in behalf of man, and reconcile to God his disloyal subject. Christ pleads his merit in our behalf. As our substitute and surety, He undertook to combat the powers of darkness in our behalf, and prevailed against the enemy of our souls, presenting to us the cup of salvation. The Prince of Life consented to bear insult and mockery, pain and death. Upon the cross of Calvary He paid redemption's price for a lost world. It was the world that He loved, the one lost sheep that He would bring back to his fold. The cross of Calvary speaks the amazing love of God for the sinner. He valued him at an infinite price, giving his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

If the love of God fails to call forth a response from the human heart, if it fails to soften and subdue the soul, we are utterly lost. There is no reserve power through which to influence the sinner. Heaven's richest gift has been freely offered for our acceptance. No greater manifestation of God's love can be given than that which was given on Calvary's cross. If the love of Christ does not melt and subdue the heart, by what means can man be reached? Have you failed to respond to the pleadings of his Spirit? Then no longer fortify your heart in hardness. Open the door of the heart to receive Christ, the best gift of Heaven. Let not cruel unbelief influence you to refuse the heaven-sent guest. Let not Christ say of you, "Ye will not come unto Me that ye might have life." With loving entreaties He follows the sinner, pleading, "Turn ye, turn ye; for why will ye die?" Mrs. E. G. White. {Messenger, April 26, 1893 par. 5}

Her crowning work is on the issue of salvation. "Desire of Ages" "Steps to Christ" it is so beautifully laid out any should be able to grasp the true way and not fall into any deception on the subject.

The refinning of this message went on I believe as long as she lived and Jones, Wagonner always were together in harmony on it.

Adventism is truly blessed to have this message and then refinned so well.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[jamesonofthunder]

I was thinking on the 1888 writings of Jones and Wagoner while reading "Christ our Righteousness" and the most amazing thing happened.

This was a couple of years ago. I was imagining the scene where the Roman Centurion came to Jesus, asking Him to heal his servant, and Jesus said "lead the way" and the man replied, "I am not worthy..." "Just SPEAK THE WORD ONLY and my servant will be healed" and Jesus said "Great is your faith".

Then while sitting and contemplating this I was reminded of all of the stories in the bible that related to this comprehension. After an hour of contemplation, I continued reading and almost verbatim, every object my mind thought of in contemplation were all the biblical supports Jones used from Scripture to support this understanding perfectly.

In this wonderful moment a peace overwhelmed me and I heard the still small voice say "what would you have of me?" I immediately prayed all the righteous prayers I could remember from scripture, desiring wisdom and understanding. He asked again "what would you have of me" and I prayed for everyone I love, asking specific things for them. But again the Holy Spirit asked "what would YOU have of me?"

I quietly asked to be allowed to get completely out of debt (from starting my company which was still in operation, but I had 10 years of payments to go to pay off the start up costs), to find a wife and have a house completely paid for. I fell asleep in this perfect state of bliss.

The next morning I awake to the phone ringing. It was my moms husband who had never called before and not since. He asked "how much debt did you go into starting your business?" I was in shock, and told him. He sent me a check the next day. Everything I asked for that night was given to me the next day though I didn't see the fulfillment until later. I met my future wife the next day. God has completely fulfilled all of my prayers that night, not because I'm special, but because I had faith to believe His word.

This is the greatest thing I have ever been taught.

The same voice who said "let there be light" and through His Holy word there it was... also said "be ye therefore perfect as your Father who is in heaven is perfect". He knows we could never do this on our own, but He spoke the possibility into existence. I believe in His word. Every word that comes out of the mouth of Jesus MUST be fulfilled, and if we have faith all of His righteousness becomes ours. Have a prayer session with the Father in this Spirit and see what true faith is all about. When we come to Him with our preconceived notions connected to a lack of faith what do you think you'll hear?

[skyblue888]

As a few years went by the message became more and more refined and developed into a deeper understanding of the great and wonderful gift of Salvation. I found this around 5 years of refinning from EGW,

"Believing in Jesus as his personal Saviour, accepting of his righteousness by faith, the sinner becomes a partaker of the divine nature, and escapes the corruption that is in the world through lust. It is through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit that the Christian is enabled to resist temptation and to work righteousness. Without the divine nature, without the influence of the Spirit of God, man cannot work out his own salvation; for God must work in him to will and to do of his good pleasure. Christ has said, "Without Me ye can do nothing." {Messenger, April 26, 1893 par. 4}

The fallen race could be restored only through the merit of Him who was equal with God. Though so highly exalted, Christ consented to take upon Him human nature, that He might work in behalf of man, and reconcile to God his disloyal subject. Christ pleads his merit in our behalf. As our substitute and surety, He undertook to combat the powers of darkness in our behalf, and prevailed against the enemy of our souls, presenting to us the cup of salvation. The Prince of Life consented to bear insult and mockery, pain and death. Upon the cross of Calvary He paid redemption's price for a lost world. It was the world that He loved, the one lost sheep that He would bring back to his fold. The cross of Calvary speaks the amazing love of God for the sinner. He valued him at an infinite price, giving his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

If the love of God fails to call forth a response from the human heart, if it fails to soften and subdue the soul, we are utterly lost. There is no reserve power through which to influence the sinner. Heaven's richest gift has been freely offered for our acceptance. No greater manifestation of God's love can be given than that which was given on Calvary's cross. If the love of Christ does not melt and subdue the heart, by what means can man be reached? Have you failed to respond to the pleadings of his Spirit? Then no longer fortify your heart in hardness. Open the door of the heart to receive Christ, the best gift of Heaven. Let not cruel unbelief influence you to refuse the heaven-sent guest. Let not Christ say of you, "Ye will not come unto Me that ye might have life." With loving entreaties He follows the sinner, pleading, "Turn ye, turn ye; for why will ye die?" Mrs. E. G. White. {Messenger, April 26, 1893 par. 5}

Her crowning work is on the issue of salvation. "Desire of Ages" "Steps to Christ" it is so beautifully laid out any should be able to grasp the true way and not fall into any deception on the subject.

The refinning of this message went on I believe as long as she lived and Jones, Wagonner always were together in harmony on it.

Adventism is truly blessed to have this message and then refinned so well.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Great quotes.

If one looks at the quotes you just posted we have a great truth, the true light: Accepting of His righteousness by faith means to appropriate His merits to ourselves by claiming them for "The only faith that will benefit us is that which embraces Him as a personal Saviour: which appropriates His merits to ourselves." D.A.347.

Thus we become partakers of the divine nature. "It is the privilege of every believer in Christ to possess Christ's nature, a nature far above that which Adam forfeited by transgression." Upward Look, 18.

As we appropriate the merits of Christ to ourselves by daily claiming them, "Christ places His own merits upon man and thus elevates him in the scales of moral value with God." Our Father Cares, 121.

Divinity and humanity are combined and it is written that when this experience is ours, the work will be a complete success and it will spread like fire in the stubble.

sky

[skyblue888]

I was thinking on the 1888 writings of Jones and Wagoner while reading "Christ our Righteousness" and the most amazing thing happened.

This was a couple of years ago. I was imagining the scene where the Roman Centurion came to Jesus, asking Him to heal his servant, and Jesus said "lead the way" and the man replied, "I am not worthy..." "Just SPEAK THE WORD ONLY and my servant will be healed" and Jesus said "Great is your faith".

Then while sitting and contemplating this I was reminded of all of the stories in the bible that related to this comprehension. After an hour of contemplation, I continued reading and almost verbatim, every object my mind thought of in contemplation were all the biblical supports Jones used from Scripture to support this understanding perfectly.

In this wonderful moment a peace overwhelmed me and I heard the still small voice say "what would you have of me?" I immediately prayed all the righteous prayers I could remember from scripture, desiring wisdom and understanding. He asked again "what would you have of me" and I prayed for everyone I love, asking specific things for them. But again the Holy Spirit asked "what would YOU have of me?"

I quietly asked to be allowed to get completely out of debt (from starting my company which was still in operation, but I had 10 years of payments to go to pay off the start up costs), to find a wife and have a house completely paid for. I fell asleep in this perfect state of bliss.

The next morning I awake to the phone ringing. It was my moms husband who had never called before and not since. He asked "how much debt did you go into starting your business?" I was in shock, and told him. He sent me a check the next day. Everything I asked for that night was given to me the next day though I didn't see the fulfillment until later. I met my future wife the next day. God has completely fulfilled all of my prayers that night, not because I'm special, but because I had faith to believe His word.

This is the greatest thing I have ever been taught.

The same voice who said "let there be light" and through His Holy word there it was... also said "be ye therefore perfect as your Father who is in heaven is perfect". He knows we could never do this on our own, but He spoke the possibility into existence. I believe in His word. Every word that comes out of the mouth of Jesus MUST be fulfilled, and if we have faith all of His righteousness becomes ours. Have a prayer session with the Father in this Spirit and see what true faith is all about. When we come to Him with our preconceived notions connected to a lack of faith what do you think you'll hear?

Right on! Through the merits of a crucified and risen Saviour it is our privilege to hear the voice of Him whose word can renew the soul unto everlasting life, making us partakers of the divine nature. (2 Peter 1:4)

In the beginning the Lord said, "Let there be light," and there was light. There was no time between the word spoken and the thing done. To all who are hungering and thirsting for full and free salvation through the merits of Christ, the voice from Heaven says, "Let the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ shine in the darkened void of your heart." 2 Cor.6:4. And it is so if we believe. There is no time between the spoken word and the thing done and the life thus received--the life of the Infinite One--is in like manner sustained, by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. Thus the ten commandments are the voice of God from Heaven speaking to the soul in promise.

sky

[Guest]

I was thinking on the 1888 writings of Jones and Wagoner while reading "Christ our Righteousness" and the most amazing thing happened.

This was a couple of years ago. I was imagining the scene where the Roman Centurion came to Jesus, asking Him to heal his servant, and Jesus said "lead the way" and the man replied, "I am not worthy..." "Just SPEAK THE WORD ONLY and my servant will be healed" and Jesus said "Great is your faith".

Then while sitting and contemplating this I was reminded of all of the stories in the bible that related to this comprehension. After an hour of contemplation, I continued reading and almost verbatim, every object my mind thought of in contemplation were all the biblical supports Jones used from Scripture to support this understanding perfectly.

In this wonderful moment a peace overwhelmed me and I heard the still small voice say "what would you have of me?" I immediately prayed all the righteous prayers I could remember from scripture, desiring wisdom and understanding. He asked again "what would you have of me" and I prayed for everyone I love, asking specific things for them. But again the Holy Spirit asked "what would YOU have of me?"

I quietly asked to be allowed to get completely out of debt (from starting my company which was still in operation, but I had 10 years of payments to go to pay off the start up costs), to find a wife and have a house completely paid for. I fell asleep in this perfect state of bliss.

The next morning I awake to the phone ringing. It was my moms husband who had never called before and not since. He asked "how much debt did you go into starting your business?" I was in shock, and told him. He sent me a check the next day. Everything I asked for that night was given to me the next day though I didn't see the fulfillment until later. I met my future wife the next day. God has completely fulfilled all of my prayers that night, not because I'm special, but because I had faith to believe His word.

This is the greatest thing I have ever been taught.

The same voice who said "let there be light" and through His Holy word there it was... also said "be ye therefore perfect as your Father who is in heaven is perfect". He knows we could never do this on our own, but He spoke the possibility into existence. I believe in His word. Every word that comes out of the mouth of Jesus MUST be fulfilled, and if we have faith all of His righteousness becomes ours. Have a prayer session with the Father in this Spirit and see what true faith is all about. When we come to Him with our preconceived notions connected to a lack of faith what do you think you'll hear?

That's great!

[Guest]

Ministers of the gospel have an inspired warrant for keeping the theme, Christ, continually before the people and directing the attention of the people to Him alone. Paul said to the Corinthians, "I determined not to know anything among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified" (1 Cor. 2:2), and there is no reason to suppose that his preaching to the Corinthians was different in any respect from his preaching elsewhere. Indeed, he tells us that when God revealed His Son in him, it was that he might preach Him among the heathen (Gal. 1:15, 16), and his joy was that to him grace had been given to "preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ." Eph. 3:8.

But the fact that the apostles made Christ the burden of all their preaching is not our sole warrant for magnifying Him. His name is the only name under heaven given among men whereby we can be saved. Acts 4:12. Christ Himself declared that no man can come unto the Father but by Him. John 14:6. To Nicodemus He said, "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have eternal life." John 3:14, 15. This "lifting up" of Jesus, while it has primary reference to His crucifixion, embraces more than the mere historical fact; it means that Christ must be "lifted up" by all who believe in Him, as the crucified Redeemer, whose grace and glory are sufficient to supply the world's greatest need; it means that He should be "lifted up" in all His exceeding loveliness and power as "God with us," that His Divine attractiveness may thus draw all unto Him. See John 12:32.

The exhortation to consider Jesus and also the reason therefor, are given in Heb. 12:1-3: "Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, looking unto Jesus the Author and Finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. For consider Him that endured such contradiction of sinners against Himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds." It is only by constantly and prayerfully considering Jesus as He is revealed in the Bible that we can keep from becoming weary in well-doing and from fainting by the way.

Again, we should consider Jesus because in Him "are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge." Col. 2:3. Whoever lacks wisdom is directed to ask of God, who gives to all men liberally and upbraids not, and the promise is that it shall be given him, but the desired wisdom can be obtained only in Christ. The wisdom which does not proceed from Christ and which does not as a consequence lead to Him is only foolishness, for God, as the Source of all things, is the Author of wisdom; ignorance of God is the worst sort of foolishness (see Rom. 1:21, 22) and all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge are hid in Christ, so that he who has only the wisdom of this world knows, in reality, nothing. And since all power in heaven and in earth is given to Christ, the apostle Paul declares Christ to be "the power of God and the wisdom of God." 1 Cor. 1:24.

There is one text, however, which briefly sums up all that Christ is to man and gives the most

comprehensive reason for considering Him. It is this: "But of Him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption." 1 Cor. 1:30. We are ignorant, wicked lost. Christ is to us wisdom, righteousness, redemption. What a range! From ignorance and sin to righteousness and redemption. Man's highest aspiration or need cannot reach outside the bounds of what Christ is to us and what He alone is to us. Sufficient reason this why the eyes of all should be fixed upon Him.

[Guest]

How Shall We Consider Christ?

But how should we consider Christ? Just as He has revealed Himself to the world, according to the witness which He bore concerning Himself. In that marvelous discourse recorded in the fifth chapter of John, Jesus said, "For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom He will. For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son; that all men should honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He that honoreth not the Son honoreth not the Father which hath sent Him." Verses 21-23.

To Christ is committed the highest prerogative, that of judging. He must receive the same honor that is due to God and for the reason that He is God. The beloved disciple bears this witness, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1. That this Divine Word is none other than Jesus Christ is shown by verse 14: "And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us (and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the Only-begotten of the Father), full of grace and truth."

The Word was "in the beginning." The mind of man cannot grasp the ages that are spanned in this phrase. It is not given to men to know when or how the Son was begotten; but we know that he was the Divine Word, not simply before He came to this earth to die, but even before the world was created. Just before His crucifixion He prayed, "And now, O Father, glorify thou Me with Thine own self with the glory which I had with Thee before the world was." John 17:5. And more than seven hundred years before His first advent, His coming was thus foretold by the word of inspiration: "But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall He come forth unto Me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from the days of eternity." Micah 5:2, margin. We know that Christ "proceeded forth and came from God" (John 8:42), but it was so far back in the ages of eternity as to be far beyond the grasp of the mind of man.

[Dr. Rich]

What do I think? Personally, I believe Satan used both Jones and Wagoner to cause SDAs to become just like the Catholics, to organize like them and to cause us to take a detour on the same path just as the many other christian churchs are on. That is, the road of believing and feeling like one is righteous by faith and saved by grace. But then, Jesus never said or taught that as far as I can see.'

From the research of early Adventism, we were way different that what we are of today. Back then, everyone was a student of the bible (should we all be that now) and everyone had a say in what they found to be truth.

[Guest]

Is Christ God?

In many places in the Bible Christ is called God. The Psalmist says, "The mighty God, even the Lord [Jehovah], hath spoken, and called the earth from the rising of the sun unto the going down thereof. Out of Zion, the perfection of beauty, God hath shined. Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence; a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about Him. He shall call to the heavens from above, and to the earth, that He may judge His people. Gather My saints together unto Me; those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice. And the heavens shall declare His righteousness; for God is judge Himself." Ps. 50:1-6.

That this passage has reference to Christ may be known 1) by the fact already learned, that all judgment is committed to the Son, and 2) by the fact that it is at the second coming of Christ that He sends His angels to gather together His elect from the four winds. Matt. 24:31. "Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence." No. For when the Lord Himself descends from heaven, it will be "with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God." 1 Thess. 4:16. This shout will be the voice of the Son of God, which will be heard by all that are in their graves and which will cause them to come forth. John 5:28, 29. With the living righteous they will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air, ever more to be with Him, and this will constitute "our gathering together unto Him." 2 Thess. 2:1. Compare Ps. 50:5; Matt. 24:31, and 1 Thess. 4:16.

"A fire shall devour before Him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about Him" for when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, it will be "in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ." 2 Thess. 1:8. So we know that Ps. 50:1-6 is a vivid description of the second coming of Christ for the salvation of His people. When He comes it will be as "the mighty God." Compare Habakkuk 3.

This is one of His rightful titles. Long before Christ's first advent, the prophet Isaiah spoke these words of comfort to Israel, "For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given; and the government shall be upon His shoulder; and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, the mighty God, the everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace." Isa. 9:6.

These are not simply the words of Isaiah; they are the words of the Spirit of God. God has, in direct address to the Son, called Him by the same title. In Ps. 45:6 we read these words, "Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever; the scepter of Thy kingdom is a right scepter." The casual reader might take this to be simply the Psalmist's ascription of praise to God, but when we turn to the New Testament, we find that it is much more. We find that God the Father is the speaker and that He is addressing the Son, calling Him God. See Heb. 1:1-8.

This name was not given to Christ in consequence of some great achievement, but it is His by right of inheritance. Speaking of the power and greatness of Christ, the writer to the Hebrews says that He is made so much better than the angels, because "He hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they." Heb. 1:4. A son always rightfully takes the name of the father; and Christ, as "the only begotten Son of God," has rightfully the same name. A son, also, is, to a greater or less degree, a reproduction of the father; he has to some extent the features and personal characteristics of his father; not perfectly, because there is no perfect reproduction among mankind. But there is no imperfection in God, or in any of His works, and so Christ is the "express image" of the Father's person. Heb. 1:3. As the Son of the self- existent God, He has by nature all the attributes of Deity.

It is true that there are many sons of God, but Christ is the "only begotten Son of God," and therefore the Son of God in a sense in which no other being ever was or ever can be. The angels are sons of God, as was Adam (Job 38:7; Luke 3:38), by creation; Christians are the sons of God by adoption (Rom. 8:14, 15), but Christ is the Son of God by birth. The writer to the Hebrews further shows that the position of the Son of God is not one to which Christ has been elevated but that it is one which He has by right. He says that Moses was faithful in all the house of God, as a servant, "but Christ as a Son over His own house." Heb. 3:6.

And he also states that Christ is the Builder of the house. Verse 3. It is He that builds the temple of the Lord and bears the glory. Zech. 6:12, 13.

Christ Himself taught in the most emphatic manner that He is God. When the young man came and asked, "Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?" Jesus, before replying to the direct question, said, "Why callest thou Me good? There is none good but One, that is, God." Mark 10:17, 18. What did Jesus mean by these words? Did He mean to disclaim the epithet as applied to Himself? Did He mean to intimate that He was not absolutely good? Was it a modest depreciation of Himself? By no means, for Christ was absolutely good. To the Jews, who were continually watching to detect in Him some failing of which they might accuse Him, He boldly said, "Which of you convinceth me of sin?" John 8:46. In the whole Jewish nation not a man could be found who had ever seen Him do a thing or heard Him utter a word that had even the semblance of evil, and those who were determined to condemn Him could do it only by hiring false witnesses against Him. Peter says that He "did no sin, neither was guile found in His mouth." 1 Peter 2:22. Paul says that He "knew no sin." 2 Cor. 5:21. The Psalmist says, "He is my Rock and there is no unrighteousness in Him." Ps. 92:15. And John says, "Ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins, and in him is no sin." 1 John 3:5.

Christ cannot deny Himself, therefore He could not say that He was not good. He is and was absolutely good, the perfection of goodness. And since there is none good but God, and Christ is good, it follows that Christ is God and that this is what He meant to teach the young man.

It was this that He taught the disciples. When Philip said to Jesus, "Show us the Father, and it sufficeth us," Jesus said to him, "Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? He that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?" John 14:8, 9. This is as emphatic as when He said, "I and my Father are one." John 10:30. So truly was Christ God, even when here among men, that when asked to exhibit the Father He could say, Behold Me. And this brings to mind the statement that when the Father brought the First-begotten into the world, He said, "And let all the angels of God worship Him." Heb. 1:6. It was not simply when Christ was sharing the glory of the Father before the world was that He was entitled to homage, but when He came a Babe in Bethlehem, even then all the angels of God were commanded to adore Him.

The Jews did not misunderstand Christ's teaching concerning Himself. When He declared that He was one with the Father, the Jews took up stones to stone Him, and when He asked them for which of His good works they sought to stone Him, they replied, "For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God." John 10:33. If He had been what they regarded Him, a mere man, His words would indeed have been blasphemy, but He was God.

The object of Christ in coming to earth was to reveal God to men so that they might come to Him. Thus the apostle Paul says that "God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself" (2 Cor. 5:19), and in John we read that the Word, which was God, was "made flesh." John 1:1,14. In the same connection it is stated, "No man hath seen God at any time; the only-begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him" (or made Him known). John 1:18.

Note the expression, "the only-begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father." He has His abode there, and He is there as a part of the Godhead, as surely when on earth as when in heaven. The use of the present tense implies continued existence. It presents the same idea that is contained in the statement of Jesus to the Jews (John 8:58), "Before Abraham was, I am." And this again shows His identity with the One who appeared to Moses in the burning bush, who declared His name to be "I AM THAT I AM."

And, finally, we have the inspired words of the apostle Paul concerning Jesus Christ, that "it pleased the Father that in Him should all fullness dwell." Col. 1:19. What this fullness is which dwells in Christ, we learn from the next chapter, where we are told that "in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily." Col. 2:9. This is most absolute and unequivocal testimony to the fact that Christ possesses by nature all the attributes of Divinity. The fact of the Divinity of Christ will also appear very distinctly as we proceed to consider:

[jamesonofthunder]

God bless you RLH.

Dear Dr Rich.

The early church was lead through a great disappointment in the death of Jesus the master. He appeared to those who endured looking for answers and told them to wait for the promised Holy Spirit. Someone searched scriptures and found a prophecy in Psalm 133 that declares the Holy Spirit would fall on Pentecost on those who were waiting on MT Zion which happened to be where Jesus had His last supper in the upper room. They came together in that room and prayed to discover the truth, to help refine their comprehension, and while prayerfully conversing they all came to one accord.

Then the Holy Spirit was poured out upon them in perfect fulfillment of the spoken word of God.

They came together in faith, THEN they received the truth.

The pioneers of the last day church also came together in faith in 1844 and received a great disappointment. Those who endured fulfilled the prophecy in Joel "your old men will dream dreams and young men see visions and handmaidens prophecy". Now in the end, God has shown someone where to meet with Him, in Gethsemane which is where He went AFTER the last supper to fulfill drinking the cup of the new and ever lasting covenant.

My point is sir, why would you be trying to prove that the Spirit of Prophecy does not exist in present truth (Mrs. White and all who hear), to people who are fully convicted that He does exist? Why would waste your time like that? And most importantly, what if you're wrong and Mrs. White was sent from God? Do you think it will be well for you in the day of judgment?

[Dr. Rich]

I have wondered the same thing for a long time before I ever said anything to anyone about what I discovered, and had and still am in deep prayer on this whole issue. Why would I believe so strongly in her that MY picture is on the mural on the wall of the GC, the picture of those on that path on the shut door vision? Huh? And then, after having a whole complete year to do nothing much else but to read about everthing she wrote, only to find many errors and absolute lies, that it caused me great spasms of disbelief, anger, and sadness!

It's like this, say your neighbor brought you some brownies every Sunday for many years and you so much enjoyed them that you decided to do the same for someone else. So you asked your neighbor for his receipe and he refused to tell you, so you decided to plant a video camera in his kitchen to watch later in or to find what he put into the mix of brownies.

Well, when you got the camera back you watched him put all the right ingredents in and then it showed him taking a tea spoon and using it to get just a tea spoon full of his dogs poop and then he put that into the mix.

What would you do? What would you feel? Could you tell your wife or kids or even your friends who also ate the brownies? Why? It would be the truth, but it would also make them not want to believe you and they would be mad at you, NOT your neighbor for surely he was a good and honest nice man! And after all, no one knew the difference and the brownies tasted good. Hmmm, Get the picture? (See the movie "HELP"?)

Well then my friend, that is exactly how I felt when I discovered the errors from not only Paul, but from EGW too! Shoot, I didn't even know about the prophecy on both of them in Rev. 2 at that time, but after I prayed about it, I was led to read those prophesies and knew at once I was correct!

Now, when I attempt to point out the problems, all I hear are "it couldn't be and I am wrong". But, what IF I am right, what then? Interestingly, I am finding that others are and have found these same errors and you can read about them or watch what they say on the net. Of course, there are only a few right now, but then isn't that what it says in Rev. 3:4?

I have never said that the Holy Spirit does not exist, nor have I said that the words of Jesus are not true.

[Guest]

Christ As Creator

Immediately following the oft-quoted text which says that Christ, the Word, is God, we read that "all things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made." John 1:3. Comment cannot make this statement any clearer than it is, therefore we pass to the words of Heb. 1:1-4, "God...hath in these last days spoken unto us by His Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; who being the brightness of His glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the majesty on high; being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they."

Still more emphatic than this are the words of the apostle Paul to the Colossians. Speaking of Christ as the One through whom we have redemption, he describes Him as the One "who is the image

of the invisible God, the first-born of every creature; for by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers; all things were created by him, and for him; and he is before all things, and by him all things consist." Col. 1:15-17.

This wonderful text should be carefully studied and often contemplated. It leaves not a thing in the universe that Christ did not create. He made everything in heaven, and everything on earth; H|e made everything that can be seen, and everything that cannot be seen ; the thrones and dominions,and the principalities and the powers in heaven, all depend upon Him for existence. And as He is before all things and their Creator, so by him do all things consist or hold together. This is equivalent to what is said in Heb. 1:3, that He upholds all things by the word of His power. It was by a word that the heavens were made, and that same word holds them in their place, and preserves them from destruction.

We cannot possibly omit in this connection Isa. 40:25, 26: "To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? saith the Holy One. Lift up your eyes on high and behold who hath created these things, that bringeth out their host by number; he calleth them all by names by the greatness of his might, for that he is strong in power; not one faileth." Or, as the Jewish translation more forcibly renders it, "from him, who is great in might, and strong in power, not one escapeth." That Christ is the Holy One who thus calls the host of heaven by name and holds them in their place is evident from other portions of the same chapter. He is the One before whom it was said, "Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make straight in the desert a highway for our God." He is the One who comes with a strong hand, having His reward with Him; the One who, like a shepherd, feeds His flock, carrying the lambs in His bosom.

One more statement concerning Christ as Creator must suffice. It is the testimony of the Father Himself. In the first chapter of Hebrews, we read that God has spoken to us by His Son; that He said of Him, "Let all the angels of God worship him" that of the angels He saith, "Who maketh his angels spirits, and His ministers a flame of fire," but that He says to the Son, "Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever; a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Thy kingdom." And God says further, "Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the works of thine hands." Heb. 1:8-10. Here we find the Father addressing the Son as God, and saying to Him, Thou hast laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of Thy hands. When the Father Himself gives this honor to the Son, what is man, that he should withhold it? With this we may well leave the direct testimony concerning the Divinity of Christ and the fact that He is the Creator of all things.

A word of caution may be necessary here. Let no one imagine that we would exalt Christ at the expense of the Father or would ignore the Father. That cannot be, for their interests are one. We honor the Father in honoring the Son. We are mindful of Paul's words, that "to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him" (1 Cor. 8:6); just as we have already quoted, that it was by Him that God made the worlds. All things proceed ultimately from God, the Father; even Christ Himself proceeded and came forth from the Father, but it has pleased the Father that in Him should all fullness dwell, and that He should be the direct, immediate Agent in every act of creation. Our object in this investigation is to set forth Christ's rightful position of equality with the Father, in order that His power to redeem may be the better appreciated.

[Guest]

Is Christ a Created Being?

Before passing to some of the practical lessons that are to be learned from these truths, we must dwell for a few moments upon an opinion that is honestly held by many who would not for any consideration willingly dishonor Christ, but who, through that opinion, do actually deny His Divinity. It is the idea that Christ is a created being, who, through the good pleasure of God, was elevated to His present lofty position. No one who holds this view can possibly have any just conception of the exalted position which Christ really occupies.

The view in question is built upon a misconception of a single text, Rev. 3:14: "And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write, These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God." This is wrongly interpreted to mean that Christ is the first being that God created--that God's work of creation began with Him. But this view antagonizes the scripture which declares that Christ Himself created all things. To say that God began His work of creation by creating Christ is to leave Christ entirely out of the work of creation.

The word rendered "beginning" is arche, meaning, as well, "head" or "chief." It occurs in the name of the Greek ruler, Archon, in archbishop and the word archangel. Take this last word. Christ is the archangel. See Jude 9; 1 Thess. 4:16; John 5:28, 29; Dan. 10:21. This does not mean that He is the first of the angels, for He is not an angel but is above them. Heb. 1:4. It means that He is the chief or prince of the angels, just as an archbishop is the head of the bishops. Christ is the commander of the angels. See Rev. 19:19-14. He created the angels. Col. 1:16. And so the statement that He is the beginning or head of the creation of God means that in Him creation had its beginning; that, as He Himself says, He is Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Rev. 21:6; 22:13. He is the source whence all things have their origin.

Neither should we imagine that Christ is a creature, because Paul calls Him (Col. 1:15) "The First-born of every creature" for the very next verses show Him to be Creator and not a creature. "For by Him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things were created by Him, and for Him and He is before all things, and by Him all things consist." Now if He created everything that was ever created and existed before all created things, it is evident that He Himself is not among created things. He is above all creation and not a part of it.

The Scriptures declare that Christ is "the only begotten son of God." He is begotten, not created. As to when He was begotten, it is not for us to inquire, nor could our minds grasp it if we were told. The prophet Micah tells us all that we can know about it in these words, "But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall He come forth unto Me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from the days of eternity." Micah 5:2, margin. There was a time when Christ proceeded forth and came from God, from the bosom of the Father (John 8:42; 1:18), but that time was so far back in the days of eternity that to finite comprehension it is practically without beginning.

But the point is that Christ is a begotten Son and not a created subject. He has by inheritance a more excellent name than the angels; He is "a Son over His own house." Heb. 1:4; 3:6. And since He is the only-begotten son of God, He is of the very substance and nature of God and possesses by birth all the attributes of God, for the Father was pleased that His Son should be the express image of His Person, the brightness of His glory, and filled with all the fullness of the Godhead. So He has "life in Himself." He possesses immortality in His own right and can confer immortality upon others. Life inheres in Him, so that it cannot be taken from Him, but having voluntarily laid it down, He can take it again. His words are these: "Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father." John 10:17, 18.

If anyone springs the old cavil, how Christ could be immortal and yet die, we have only to say that we do not know. We make no pretensions of fathoming infinity. We cannot understand how Christ could be God in the beginning, sharing equal glory with the Father before the world was and still be born a babe in Bethlehem. The mystery of the crucifixion and resurrection is but the mystery of the incarnation. We cannot understand how Christ could be God and still become man for our sake. We cannot understand how He could create the world from nothing, nor how He can raise the dead nor yet how it is that He works by His Spirit in our own hearts; yet we believe and know these things. It should be sufficient for us to accept as true those things which God has revealed without stumbling over things that the mind of an angel cannot fathom. So we delight in the infinite power and glory which the Scriptures declare belong to Christ, without worrying our finite minds in a vain attempt to explain the infinite.

Finally, we know the Divine unity of the Father and the Son from the fact that both have the same Spirit. Paul, after saying that they that are in the flesh cannot please God, continues: "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." Rom. 8:9. Here we find that the Holy Spirit is both the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ. Christ "is in the bosom of the Father" being by nature of the very substance of God and having life in Himself. He is properly called Jehovah, the self-existent One and is thus styled in Jer. 23:56, where it is said that the righteous Branch, who shall execute judgment and justice in the earth, shall be known by the name of Jehovah-tsidekenu--THE LORD, OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Let no one, therefore, who honors Christ at all, give Him less honor than He gives the Father, for this would be to dishonor the Father by just so much, but let all, with the angels in heaven, worship the Son, having no fear that they are worshiping and serving the creature instead of the Creator.

And now, while the matter of Christ's Divinity is fresh in our minds, let us pause to consider the wonderful story of His humiliation.

[Gibs]

RLH, For sure He is not a created being but is the appointed creator.

Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

Fully God In A Body!

Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Notice, above, "God", that is the Father was in Christ!

Notice next verse HE purchases His Church with His Own Blood!

Ac 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Joh 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Wonder of Wonders,

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

And then He made it so He could come and dwell in us, we just need to invite Him in.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[dialoguewithus]

Colossians 1:16-20>

for in Him is all created, that in the heavens and that on the earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones, or lordships, or sovereignties, or authorities, all is created through Him and for Him, and He is before all, and all has its cohesion in Him. And He is the Head of the body, the ecclesia, Who is Sovereign, Firstborn from among the dead, that in all He may be becoming first, for in Him the entire complement delights to dwell, and through Him to reconcile all to Him (making peace through the blood of His cross), through Him, whether those on the earth or those in the heavens.

It's true that Christ is God's- 1 Corinthians 3:23

It's also true that "My Father, Who has given them to Me, is greater than all" - John 10:29

Jesus also said, "Now it is eonian life that they may know Thee, the only true God, and Him Whom Thou dost commission, Jesus Christ." John 17:3

And Paul said, "nevertheless for us there is one God, the Father, out of Whom all is, and we for Him, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through Whom all is, and we through Him." 1 Cor. 8:6

Christ Jesus is the Image of the invisible God, the only Mediator between God and man.

[dialoguewithus]

Oh, and that's Concordant Literal Version. Jesus also called the Father, "My God". Jesus and God are referred to as Savior, Lord, and God.

[Gibs]

Jesus wasn't another God, but THE God. You see this verse makes it clear,

2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Truly He could say,

Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.

The man Jesus was the body prepared for that indwelling,

Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[dialoguewithus]

Hebrews 1:8, 9

Yet to the Son: "Thy throne, O God, is for the eon of the eon, And a scepter of rectitude is the scepter of Thy kingdom." Thou lovest righteousness and hatest injustice; Therefore Thou art anointed by God, Thy God, with the oil of exultation beyond Thy partners.

Heb. 3:1, 2

Whence, holy brethren, partners of a celestial calling, consider the Apostle and Chief Priest of our avowal, Jesus, Who is faithful to Him Who makes Him, as Moses also was in His whole house.

The way I understand the Bible, Christ is the "image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation" Col. 1:15. As God's visible Representative and the One who shed His blood to save us, He is referred to as "God". Nevertheless, the Father is His God.

[Gail]

What an interesting version!

[Dr. Rich]

Jesus wasn't another God, but THE God. You see this verse makes it clear,

2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Truly He could say,

Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.

The man Jesus was the body prepared for that indwelling,

Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

LOL, Jesus, the Father and the Holy Spirit are ONE just as a human father, mother and son (kids) are ONE family. Jesus was clearly Michael the Arch Angel (Angel of the Lord as found in EX. 3) and the great I AM.

Please notice the difference between the name of the creator in chapter one of Gen. verses the name of the creator in chapter two after verse 4. They clearly are not the same.