Obama Quotes scripture to say :

[olger]

YEP

[Dr. Shane]

Jesus did not require more or a graduated system for tithe.

Tithe is 10% although some Biblical scholars do not believe the poor were required to pay tithe. That aside, offerings were certainly on a graduated scale - just like our tax system is.

[Dr. Shane]

More and more taxes is simply more of a slush fund for Washington.

That really does not address the subject. We could go to a straight, soak-the-poor flat tax and the revenue could still be a slush fund for Washington. So how the government spends the money and how they collect the money are really two different subjects.

[bonnie]

Originally Posted By: bonnie

Jesus did not require more or a graduated system for tithe.

Tithe is 10% although some Biblical scholars do not believe the poor were required to pay tithe. That aside, offerings were certainly on a graduated scale - just like our tax system is.

Do you know the difference between a forced action and a "offering"?

Christ did not give a percentage of what that was.That is a matter of the heart.Not Obama.

Nor is there any indication that taxes/government is confused with "offering"in the mind of Christ.

Who should be exempt from tithe,what is the thresh hold for not paying tithe,scholars aside

[bonnie]

Originally Posted By: bonnie

More and more taxes is simply more of a slush fund for Washington.

That really does not address the subject. We could go to a straight, soak-the-poor flat tax and the revenue could still be a slush fund for Washington. So how the government spends the money and how they collect the money are really two different subjects.

No it is not. Many are for more and more taxes because of the poor and supposedly to reduce their own tax burden.

No on suggested anything remotely like a tax to "soak the poor"

The way this yammering for higher taxes is spent and the necessity for raising such because of the waste is directly tied to how it is used.

Given to Washington without restraint leads to more spending without restraint.

[olger]

I am a fan of Steve Forbes' flat tax. He presented it at the Nutter Center in Dayton several years ago and it made a lot of sense to me.

Almost anything would be better than the hopelessly complicated 6,000 page IRS "code".

[bonnie]

I am a fan of Steve Forbes' flat tax. He presented it at the Nutter Center in Dayton several years ago and it made a lot of sense to me.

Almost anything would be better than the hopelessly complicated 6,000 page IRS "code".

Without 6,000 pages how would you justify the big business taxes are? How much of every tax dollar goes into implementing that 6,000 pages?

A flat tax or even 15% across the board eliminates the need for all the useless federal employees

[olger]

Indeed. We could turn the IRS building in Memphis into something useful - like Lazer-tag.

[Robert]

If you're 40 and you're not a conservative, it means you don't have a brain.

"The work which the church has failed to do (restore & present the gospel) in a time of peace and prosperity she will have to do in a terrible crisis under most discouraging, forbidding circumstances. The warnings that worldly conformity has silenced or withheld must be given under the fiercest opposition from enemies of the faith. And at that time the superficial, conservative class, whose influence has steadily retarded the progress of the work, will renounce the faith.--5T 463 (1885)."

[Guest]

I don't suppose you understand, that the word conservative in her day, especially regarding religion, meant something totally different than it does today. (a little research would do you some good)

Not only that, but here you are trying to make it apply to politics, and that doesn't work either.

Two thumbs down w/frown (

[Guest]

Indeed. We could turn the IRS building in Memphis into something useful - like Lazer-tag.

[Robert]

I don't suppose you understand, that the word conservative in her day, especially regarding religion, meant something totally different than it does today. (a little research would do you some good)

“Men rest satisfied with the light already received from God’s Word, and discourage any further investigation of the Scriptures. They become conservative, and seek to avoid discussion .”

[Robert]

"Many give a bare assent to truth when they are not sanctified through the truth. They do not in Spirit represent Christ. They are surface workers, and delude themselves with the idea that they are Christians. So effectually does this delusion take possession of heart and mind that the sharp arrows of the Lord fail to penetrate the armor of self righteousness in which they are encased. The spell is so strong that they will listen to the truth, the most earnest and powerful, even to the very portraying of the delusions which are upon them without any thought of self-examination to see if it means them. This is the class our Saviour found most difficult to arouse. The most authoritative teachings were heard and listened to as if they heard not. Thus it is with many, many in this generation." 1888, p. 796.

[Woody]

Wow. Thanks Rob. This is powerful.

[Guest]

Except this is the political forum.

[Woody]

Except this is the political forum.

Exactly my point. Why is Obama mixing politics with religion?

[bonnie]

I don't suppose you understand, that the word conservative in her day, especially regarding religion, meant something totally different than it does today. (a little research would do you some good)

Not only that, but here you are trying to make it apply to politics, and that doesn't work either.

Two thumbs down w/frown (

You will note the phrase "what the church has failed to do" does not go on to say the government shall now do.

This is referring to even those posting condemnation of others that are failing to do what they should do.

Again,why is it that conservatives are still outgiving those that yell for others to give more?

[Guest]

Again,why is it that conservatives are still outgiving those that yell for others to give more?

It should be a well known fact by now, that conservatives FAR outgive liberals, when it comes to charities and such.

Al Gore with all his hundreds of millions gave $300.00 one year. When asked about it he said "Well, I often give food and clothing to the needy". LOL That means that somebody out there is having to wear Algore's old clothes, in lieu of him parting with any of his vast fortune.

The only one worse than him is Joe Biden. I think he gave like $17.00 one year to charity. LOL

But they're the party of compassion. Right?

[Dr. Shane]

No on suggested anything remotely like a tax to "soak the poor"

The flat tax is the soak-the-poor tax. The principle that Jesus taught, and Obama correctly referenced, supports the graduated tax scale which I believe the US has had as long as we have had an income tax.

[olger]

Originally Posted By: RLH

Except this is the political forum.

Exactly my point. Why is Obama mixing politics with religion?

Possibly because Social-justice and Environmental-justice are prima-farce' religious expressions to Obama and kindred democrats...

rejoice always

[bonnie]

Possibly because Social-justice and Environmental-justice are prima-farce' religious expressions to Obama and kindred democrats...

rejoice always

Sure makes people feel good tho doesn't it.

BTW,I have asked numerous times and no one seems to be able to explain.What is social justice

[bonnie]

Originally Posted By: bonnie

No on suggested anything remotely like a tax to "soak the poor"

The flat tax is the soak-the-poor tax. The principle that Jesus taught, and Obama correctly referenced, supports the graduated tax scale which I believe the US has had as long as we have had an income tax.

The priciple Jesus taught didn't have anything to do with taxes.All to do with the condition of the heart.After the 10% "required' from all,"much is required from those receiving much.

Obama correctly referencing does not mean he did not misapply.

The "poor" has become a new fad word,one to be reverenced by all. Poor is not a new condition,one does not need to stay desperately poor in most cases.Takes a whole lot of work tho

and not nearly as easy as saying I can't

[Dr. Shane]

The priciple Jesus taught didn't have anything to do with taxes.

The principle is exactly that - a principle. It can be applied in many different ways. I know some couples that divide up their bills according to their separate incomes. If the husband makes 75% of the household income, he pays 75% of the bills. I am not endorsing that practice but it is an application of this same principle. It can be applied in many different areas of life.

[Robert]

It should be a well known fact by now, that conservatives FAR outgive liberals, when it comes to charities and such.

Matt 23:5 All they do is done to be seen by men!

Matt 6:1 Beware of practicing your righteousness (which is self-righteousness) before other people in order to be seen by them....2 "Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others..... 3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your giving may be in secret.

1 Cor 13:3 If I give all I possess to the poor ..., but have not love (agape), I gain nothing. 4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It is not rude, (agape) is not self-seeking

[bonnie]

Originally Posted By: RLH

It should be a well known fact by now, that conservatives FAR outgive liberals, when it comes to charities and such.

Matt 23:5 All they do is done to be seen by men!

Matt 6:1 Beware of practicing your righteousness (which is self-righteousness) before other people in order to be seen by them....2 "Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others..... 3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your giving may be in secret.

1 Cor 13:3 If I give all I possess to the poor ..., but have not love (agape), I gain nothing. 4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It is not rude, (agape) is not self-seeking

This assumes that all conservatives that give of their personal time and money do so for all the wrong reasons and as stingy as liberal's are,they do so for the right reasons.Right reasons being More and more taxes and less and less of themselves.Somehow I don't think that is what Christ meant.Nor do I think he meant a condemnation of conservatives while praising liberal's.Don't think He meant those "claiming to be under grace" were exempt either.