Why do you think?

[Woody]

that God chooses the most UNqualified to do His Work?

[Woody]

Please - this is no reflection on Stan. Just an observation in general.

[Gail]

Most definitely! I've heard it described as, God uses cracked pots.

[Woody]

Most definitely! I've heard it described as, God uses cracked pots.

Ahhhh - I LIKE that.

Good one Gail.

[Gibs]

Yes Woody, Unqualified by not going through any of the worlds schools and coming out with a twist on things.

True "metal" He tempers it His Way. He is well able and always has been to teach His Apostles.

Woody, how about that, again we agree!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

Yes Gibs. What counts is that one is 'formed spiritually'.

[12tribes]

God qualifies the callers no matter who they are. All have a work to do and we are to work together

[Kevin H]

Not everyone is unqualified. The title "Moses" does not mean to draw out of the water. (the word looks slighly like the Egyptain word for water so a later scribe who lost the history made that guess and it got into the text) it was a title meaning the crown prince, and some carried their names when they became Pharaoh, such as Tutmoses. Moses was trained to rule Egypt, then had added to the training the 40 years of careing for sheep. The two jobs made Moses very well qualified for the job. If the early date of the exodus is correct (which is where the title "Moses" was used) the person sitting on the throne was even farther removed and the son of Pharaoh's daughter, the rightful Pharaoh was willing to let that one Pharaoh keep the job if only he would let the Hebrews go.

The Disciples; we tend to think them to be poor and uneducated. However the Hebrews were a very well educated people because of the Bible. Some small out of the way town such as Nazareth, had only the equvalent of today's 6th grade education. But the typical "uneducated" Jew was like someone today with two to four years of college. And the ones who were fishermen were the ones who owned the big boats and had employees. While they did not have the "Religious" education and qualifications, they had the business and administrative background to suite them for their job. Saul had grown up in Tarsus where he would have learned Greek and Latan as well as Hebrew. It was a university town where he would have learned about the gentile culture, then went to Jerusalem where he learned about the Bible. This again qualified him for the work that God would later call him too.

God calls who he can use. Some are very well qualified, others are not qualified but willing and God will not force the human will and will use those who let him use them.

[skyblue888]

"For the carrying on of His work, Christ did not choose the learning or eloquence of the Jewish Sanhedrin or the power of Rome. Passing by the self-righteous Jewish teachers, the Master Worker chose humble, unlearned men to proclaim the truths that were to move the world." A.A.17.

In today's language: For the carrying on of His last work, Christ will not choose the learning or eloquence of the General, Union, or Local Conferences, or the powers that be. Passing by the self-righteous Adventist teachers, the Master Worker will choose humble, unlearned men to proclaim the truths that will move the world.

"'I have set before you an open door, and no man can shut it.' Even if all our leading men should refuse light and truth, that door will still remain open. The Lord will raise up men who will give the people the message for this time." T.M.107.

sky

[Kevin H]

Skyblue, may I invite you to re-read my post just above yours. There are two extreams; one are those who are educated in what the Bible is supposed to say and are secure in the institution, but the other that we seem to expect is too close to Mrs. White's description of spiritualism, the idea that different uneducated ideas that we think up are the truths that God wants to use.

The disciples were not educated in the religious studies (except Nathaniel, and from the Desire of Ages apperently Judas)However they were not ignorant uneducated men, but had their education in being able to read and write, would read the Bible, and had a business education. However Paul had both a secular and religious education.

[Windsor]

"For the carrying on of His work, Christ did not choose the learning or eloquence of the Jewish Sanhedrin or the power of Rome. Passing by the self-righteous Jewish teachers, the Master Worker chose humble, unlearned men to proclaim the truths that were to move the world." A.A.17.

In today's language: For the carrying on of His last work, Christ will not choose the learning or eloquence of the General, Union, or Local Conferences, or the powers that be. Passing by the self-righteous Adventist teachers, the Master Worker will choose humble, unlearned men to proclaim the truths that will move the world.

"'I have set before you an open door, and no man can shut it.' Even if all our leading men should refuse light and truth, that door will still remain open. The Lord will raise up men who will give the people the message for this time." T.M.107.

sky

I've seen plenty of self-righteous uneducated Adventist "preachers" even here on this forum that think that by withdrawing from the General Conference they can receive God's favor.

[ClubV12]

Indeed Windsor, indeed. Tis a serious thing to run ahead of the Lord and chart and independant course. No matter how much it "appears the church is about to fall".

"Church", as Ellen White used the term. That organized body of believers, that visible church, those men and women who established the Seventh-day Adventist church in 1863 that the world see's, recognizes and acknowledges as the official Adventist church of today. Still here, will always be here, to the end.

[CoAspen]

Your question...."Why do you think?", is a false presumption.....from a lot of my observation!!

[Dr. Rich]

Kevin, and just where in the bible can you verify what you wrote? It seems you keep posting things without verifying it with the words of Jesus,

We do have proof that Peter could not read or write, but as for the others, who really knew? Thanks

Also, should we then expect anything different today--who God uses to feed the servants the food at the propert time? (Matt. 24:45)

[Woody]

Your question...."Why do you think?", is a false presumption.....from a lot of my observation!!

Well I concede that you have a good point there CoA.

[Kevin H]

Kevin, and just where in the bible can you verify what you wrote? It seems you keep posting things without verifying it with the words of Jesus,

We do have proof that Peter could not read or write, but as for the others, who really knew? Thanks

Also, should we then expect anything different today--who God uses to feed the servants the food at the propert time? (Matt. 24:45)

No Dr. Rich. We have evidence that he felt much more comfortable with Hebrew and would prefer to work with others that was better with Greek.

First of all, in the Bible we find that it says that they had the boats that could go into the deep and that they had people who worked for them. The rest of the information comes from archaeology. For a specific reference see 7 characteristics of the Disciples, or the 3 part series no the life of Peter by Dr. Jim Fleming of Biblical Resources. He was one of my professors and was a professor at Hebrew University in Jerusalem Israel.

[olger]

Jeremiah 18

[doug yowell]

The Disciples; we tend to think them to be poor and uneducated. However the Hebrews were a very well educated people because of the Bible. Some small out of the way town such as Nazareth, had only the equvalent of today's 6th grade education. But the typical "uneducated" Jew was like someone today with two to four years of college. And the ones who were fishermen were the ones who owned the big boats and had employees. While they did not have the "Religious" education and qualifications, they had the business and administrative background to suite them for their job. Saul had grown up in Tarsus where he would have learned Greek and Latan as well as Hebrew. It was a university town where he would have learned about the gentile culture, then went to Jerusalem where he learned about the Bible. This again qualified him for the work that God would later call him too.

Glad you brought that up.Kevin,it sorta mirrors the modern day perception that Christians are uneducated,undegreed simpletons.And the fact that the 2 most prolific Bible authors were probably the two with the most formal secular education has always said something to me. Seems a formal education combined with a living education in the school of Christ (not a "religious" education)produces a more powerful witness to the world.

[Dr. Rich]

Originally Posted By: Dr. Rich

Kevin, and just where in the bible can you verify what you wrote? It seems you keep posting things without verifying it with the words of Jesus,

We do have proof that Peter could not read or write, but as for the others, who really knew? Thanks

Also, should we then expect anything different today--who God uses to feed the servants the food at the propert time? (Matt. 24:45)

No Dr. Rich. We have evidence that he felt much more comfortable with Hebrew and would prefer to work with others that was better with Greek.

First of all, in the Bible we find that it says that they had the boats that could go into the deep and that they had people who worked for them. The rest of the information comes from archaeology. For a specific reference see 7 characteristics of the Disciples, or the 3 part series no the life of Peter by Dr. Jim Fleming of Biblical Resources. He was one of my professors and was a professor at Hebrew University in Jerusalem Israel.

Oh, so you do admit that you could not verify what you wrote, that it was just an opinion of someones. There you go again-assumptions and presumptions!

Read Robert Eiselman's book called "James, the brother of Jesus" for a more complete view.

[CoAspen]

Quote:

Oh, so you do admit that you could not verify what you wrote, that it was just an opinion of someones.

First the chastise! Then the rebuttal!!

Quote:

Read Robert Eiselman's book called "James, the brother of Jesus" for a more complete view.

Does anyone ever 'proof' their posts? To make it simple, one person is chastised for their use of citing an opinion of 'others', then told to go read the the opinion of a an 'other' person!!!

Maybe we need a 'reliable' others opinions list!!

[miz3]

that God chooses the most UNqualified to do His Work?

Maybe "unqualified" by the World's standards but are eminently qualified by God's Standard.

God wants those who will account themselves as nothing and God as everything. Because God is indeed everything, the human is indeed nothing. God loves using the nothing to actually make something. Thus, God will get all the Glory by demonstrating how He gets something from nothing.

Those humans that think they are "something" and as such have to do something "on their own" in order to please God are actually useless to God because whether they realize it or not they are stealing from God what is actually God's.

You see God is the Potter and we are the pots (according to Bible reckoning). Pots do nothing on their own. They have to be used by the Potter in order to do something.

God makes and then uses the pots as it pleases Him. Any pot that does not remain a pot but seeks its own is unqualified and will be thrown into Hell.

God only knows those pots in whom God does everything, absolutely everything. God does NOT KNOW pots that are off on their own. Pots God does not know will be thrown into Hell.

Its very simple. Yet it is a hard doctrine for the sinful human to accept.

[Gerr]

that God chooses the most UNqualified to do His Work?

So that the glory can go to God alone.

[ClubV12]

Kevin makes some excellent points about those whom the Lord called to work with Him. Humble fishermen? Yes! Uneducated, backward, "cracked pots"? I don't think so. These men were hard workers with exceptionally strong physigues. They had managed to rise above poverty and buy boats, nets and gear for their "business". These guys were sharp, hard working, respected members of society. "Self supporting", a most admirable trait.

Sister White speaks highly of the need for TRAINED and EDUCATED workers. I think we tend to much to much emphasis on how God can use even the lowest member(s) of society to do His work, of course He can. We should also acknowledge and be thankful for the fact there is a place for men of great intellect, backbone, stamina and as true to duty as the needle to the pole. Jesus was "home schooled" and the people of His time were shocked He could read and reason so well. We see plenty of evidence today that "home schooling" does not need to mean "less qualified". A good education is a wonderful way to begin the service to God. We NEED good orators who can reason with the best minds on the planet and give a reason for their faith.

Consider some of the great men of God in history. Moses was highly trained. Paul certainly was. Luther as well. In all cases they needed additional "polishing" for their ministry. There was much to unlearn as well as learn. But consider the clay the potter used, these were hardly "dumb" men.

James and Ellen White had litte education, but clearly both were far above the intellectual status of most folks for their time. And many other early Adventists were well trained and very well educated. Joseph Bates comes to mind, William Miller certainly, Loughborough, Uriah Smith, the list is long.

[miz3]

Originally Posted By: Woody

that God chooses the most UNqualified to do His Work?

So that the glory can go to God alone.

Perfectly stated.