Question about suicide

[OzarkWoman]

If a person has asked for forgiveness for all of their sins and repented, but hasn't gotten baptized, would they still have a chance to be with Jesus if they commit suicide because things just got too hard for them? What about if they got baptized?

[OzarkWoman]

Sorry, I didn't notice till now that this was not supposed to be posted here. Yoiu can delete it if you like.

[Woody]

No problem OzarkWoman - if we can't be flexible - what good is the forum. JMO (Just MY opinion)

Good question.

In my mind - God judges us by our mind or heart - not our actions or works.

IN the end - it is the works of JESUS that saves us - not our works.

[jasd]

>>If a person has asked for forgiveness for all of their sins and repented, but hasn't gotten baptized, would they still have a chance to be with Jesus if they commit suicide because things just got too hard for them?<<

Baptized?—I think that sometimes it is more form than function. Did Jesus Christ baptize as part of His ministry? No. If anyone should have been baptizing by water, seems to me that it would have been Jesus Christ.

We are told that, instead, He would baptize with fire – but the specifics of such a baptism are rather numinous.

We’re not informed of much that went on with the earliest Fathers re the matter of Baptism. St Paul made much of the fact that he didn’t Baptize, well, except in the case of the very few.

Per the fact that one believes in Jesus Christ: It is difficult to imagine Jesus Christ having less rather than more compassion and mercy for one afflicted by personal ‘demons’ (used as literary license), as to take his/her own life.

I’ve had friends who committed suicide – and was as helpless as anyone else to assuage or relieve the torment of their ‘demons’.

With many suicides, it is often that the mind/body suffers from the imbalance of a particular ill health. So, one asks, Jesus Christ casts one suffering in mind and body – to the flames of destruction? Hardly!

>>What about if they got baptized?<<

Writ informs that Moses baptized two-three million people – by their passage through the Red Sea. All passed dry shod without being sprinkled or drenched. Baptism takes other forms.

Given the Lord’s mercy re my days and my druthers – though I do not feel it necessary, I plan on being baptized by a free-will church that has not incorporated; that is, become an Entity of the State/Caesar.

Preferably, in a clean river and, of course, in Summer! If no free-will church is baptizing, I’ll be content to be baptized by a devout Xtian Brother or Sister.

Sometimes, form over function is vanity.

[Servant]

I'm not a theologian; however my logic definitely leans towards, "Yes, someone who dies under these circumstances may have a very good chance to be with Jesus!" Here's why; many persons who suicide are feeling acute despair (while some who suicide only intended to "gesture" yet weren't rescued in time).

Simply, God UNDERSTANDS pain and hopelessness; Jesus ministered to many who were in anguish while here on earth. And our Loving God, Who longs to rescue every "safe" to save person; will most likely save some who ended their life when they acted upon the lies the enemy told them!

FYI; suicide is more prevalent than homicide; which may make the enemy appear successful. However I don't believe that.

Please understand, I'm not trying to minimize the consequences of poor choices; and yet I also know our Loving God knows what is best - and that "best" might very well include the gift of eternal life to a follower who made an impulsive mistake.

[Woody]

I had one professor explain it this way:

sins will not keep you out of heaven.

But Sin will. Yes, sins can cause us to commint Sin but only the sparation from God which is what Sin is - will keep us from the pearly gates. It is the relationship with God that matters - not how many sins you commit.

So it is as you stated Servant - the impulsive act of suicide will not keep us from heaven.

[GoLions]

Wise or Foolish?

“Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps,

and went forth to meet the bridegroom. And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.” Matthew 25:1, 2.

We are not to rest in the idea that because we are church-members we are saved,while we give no evidence that we are conformed to the image of Christ, while we cling to our old habits, and weave our fabric with the threads of worldly ideas and customs. . . .

The ten virgins are watching in the evening of this earth’s history. All claim to be Christians. All have a call, a name, a lamp, and all claim to be doing God’s service. All

apparently watch for His appearing. But five are wanting. Five will be found surprised, dismayed, outside the banquet hall.

We are represented either by the wise or by the foolish virgins. There are many who will not remain at the feet of Jesus, and learn of Him. They have not a knowledge of His

ways; they are not prepared for His coming. They have made a pretense of waiting for their Lord. They have not watched and prayed with that faith which works by love and purifies the soul. They have lived a life of carelessness. They have heard and assented to the truth, but they have never brought it into their practical life. The oil of grace is not feeding their lamps, and they are not prepared to enter into the marriage supper of the Lamb.

Be not like the foolish virgins, who take for granted that the promises of God are theirs, while they do not follow the injunctions of Christ. Christ teaches us that profession

is nothing. “If any man will come after me,” He says, “let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.” . . .

When we stand the test of God in the refining, purifying process; when the furnace fire consumes the dross, and the true gold of a purified character appears, we may still say,

with Paul, “Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after. . . . This one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the

high calling of God in Christ Jesus.”

Maranatha, p.54

[Woody]

not sure what that had to do with this topic. But nice cut and paste job.

[GoLions]

not sure what that had to do with this topic. But nice cut and paste job.

What this has to do with the topic is this. It seems popular, at least with people who I work with, to pass judgement on who is "saved or not saved". Which is really a stretch for anyone to think that they really have a clue. Especially when you talk about people who can say and do just about anything they please, as long as they say the magic words 'I believe' then they are considered saved.

To read the comments here that someone who is not baptized and commits suicide is surely in a saved condition. That and no other information. Really is not Biblical. Just feelings or trying not to hurt others feelings. What IF, the person that asked the question in the first place, or someone reads this and feels the same way, then commits suicide, because someone said 'don't worry'. That would be just horrible.

The real bottom line of the whole story is for YOU, You to be ready. It will do you no good to know that someone is saved and yet you are lost. Work out your own salvation.

[jasd]

It was remarked that there were comments made to effect: that someone not baptized and commits suicide is in a saved condition.

Although there were statements made that temporized, I don't think that anyone made such an unequivocal statement.

Disabuse me should I err.

Re the wise and the foolish virgins: Writ tells us no more than that they all slept and were awakened together by the herald. The difference between them lay only in the fact that some were adequately provisioned and some were not.

Those who had not adequate provision were told to go and 'buy' that they might have oil for their lamps.

The question obtains: 'buy'? Buy what? Surely salvation is not a thing purchased in the marketplace.

Moreover, having taken heed and gone to those who sold oil, they made their purchases and hurried back to greet the Bridegroom - only to find that the door was closed to them.

The denouement being that yes, they were denied the chamber, but were they denied everything subsequent? Why was that aspect of the parable left untold?

I know, wrong board. But with so much censoring and deletions taking place, comme c'est, comme ca...

[doug yowell]

I had one professor explain it this way:

sins will not keep you out of heaven.

But Sin will. Yes, sins can cause us to commint Sin but only the sparation from God which is what Sin is - will keep us from the pearly gates. It is the relationship with God that matters - not how many sins you commit.

So it is as you stated Servant - the impulsive act of suicide will not keep us from heaven.

Is an impulsive act of suicide no different than an impulsive act of adultery, or murdering one's children (murder/suicide),or worshipping a golden idol on the plains of Dura? Isn't suicide the last desperate act of hopelessness and selfishness? Saul committed suicide because had no relationship with God.Didn't Paul and Silas turn the Phillipian jailer from his apparent hopeless situation? Suicide is a public statement to the world that God was unable to carry you through your sufferings in this life.

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Woody

I had one professor explain it this way:

sins will not keep you out of heaven.

But Sin will. Yes, sins can cause us to commint Sin but only the sparation from God which is what Sin is - will keep us from the pearly gates. It is the relationship with God that matters - not how many sins you commit.

So it is as you stated Servant - the impulsive act of suicide will not keep us from heaven.

Is an impulsive act of suicide no different than an impulsive act of adultery, or murdering one's children (murder/suicide),or worshipping a golden idol on the plains of Dura? Isn't suicide the last desperate act of hopelessness and selfishness? Saul committed suicide because had no relationship with God.Didn't Paul and Silas turn the Phillipian jailer from his apparent hopeless situation? Suicide is a public statement to the world that God was unable to carry you through your sufferings in this life.

I suspect you are partly right. God is NOT always able to carry us through our sufferings. Sometimes he allows suffering to continue. And if Jesus cried to God in despair "Why have you forsaken me" then I suppose we can do the same.

[doug yowell]

I suspect you are partly right. God is NOT always able to carry us through our sufferings. Sometimes he allows suffering to continue. And if Jesus cried to God in despair "Why have you forsaken me" then I suppose we can do the same.

"Though He slay me, yet will I trust Him!" not "Though I slay me, yet will He trust me!"

[whatisthis]

Doug,tell whoever is asking that the harder it is to believe, the truer it is--that there will come a glorious morning when the sunlight is golden and flecked with joy, no matter how dark the pit you are in. In fact the darker the pit, the more the absolute certainty that there will come a morning again when you are glad you didn't miss that good morning. You will see the joy again if you hang on. Not hanging on does not certainly have that promise. I came to a time when all I could do when I wanted to smile was cry. I was at a most wonderful place, but the depression only worsened, but I have seen glad mornings, and I know more and more that where we are going when God wakes us up in the morning from the last darkest night will be so real and the air so fresh and good! But trust Him with what is and what is coming. Don't take it into your hands, but trust Him! He does care--He does love! He knows when you should sleep and when you should wake, and if you are alive, you should still hang on! Someone needs you, still. Who knows how many someone's or how precious to you helping to fill that need will be? God loves you and you are important to me too.

[whatisthis]

I feel like the words are stumbling all over my tongue and what I am saying may not be grammatical, but I hope you do get the glimmer of hope in this and let it ignite something that will burn away the dark. Coil up a little green cord of hope and faith and keep on going, take it out a lot and play with it, good music exercises it!

[Woody]

Quote:

God loves you and you are important to me too.

WEll said. And hang in there Doug.

[whatisthis]

Keep on livin' and lovin' even when it seems there is nobody there to love or be loved back by, keep on doing what is most significant even when everything seems insignificant, keep on remembering what it is not to hurt and how that will be, no matter how it hurts. And please hang around to tell the same thing back to me when I need it. I may need to hear this from you!

[whatisthis]

Remember that Joseph had managed to get everyone he loved against him and he was in a pit beyond the reach of crying and tears to help him when his story really began. And that after that moment there were dark moments again, but the story worked out to help him and all those he loved the most and couldn't reach, on through to the best ending of any story!

[whatisthis]

Quote:

God loves you and you are important to me too.

WEll said. And hang in there Doug.

Yes, see, and you are important to Woody and to many who don't know what to see, or to someone whom you have not met yet, who will desperately need what you have gleaned here.

[whatisthis]

And remember I'm praying for you! And you doooo matter to me!

[whatisthis]

I didn't know who started this when I answered, just know that feeling well, and I want whoever is asking to know that the dark will burn away, dawn will come. I'm not telling you it's darkest before dawn, I'm telling you that there is a goood Shepherd to keep you through the night and He's not counting sins, He's wanting to guide you to waters that are clear in pastures that are green where all the light is. Please know His arms are there to snuggle up into, Ozark Woman! Please everyone who answered, let's hang in here together and love each other, really be here for each other! Okay. YOU ALL matter to me!

[doug yowell]

Doug,tell whoever is asking that...

I think you've done a better job than I could have done.