The Cart Ahead Of The Horse!

[Gibs]

Historicists have gotten the cart ahead of the horse! Just two chapters to deal with today. Yes before the prophecies time to happen they have it fulfilled.

There is always a clue as to the time an apocolyptic prophecy is to occur. The two today is chapter 8 and 11.

The time of the one in chapter 8 is in these verses,

Re 8:5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.

Re 8:6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

Re 8:7 ¶ The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

You see it won't happen until Jesus comes to the Altar and gives the signal and then the trumpets begin. Now has it happened yet? Look at verse 7 again, NO!, never has those underlined happened.

The time of chapter 11 is revealed in the first two verses,

Re 11:1 ¶ And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

First the church is "measured" up and then those outside the "camp" are given 42 months and the last witness is to them. And they trample the Holy City the whole time,

Re 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

There is a lot of contention about who the two witnesses will be but that I want to leave for another time.

Re 11:3 ¶ And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

And yes Oh Yes, those 42 months are in solar days, literal. I want to tell you I find the time for this is very close, in the area of one year plus or minus maybe 6 months. It's over when these months are completed.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[ClubV12]

Gib saya,

"those 42 months are in solar days, literal"

According to William Miller, Ellen White and the Seventh-day Adventist Church the 42 months are not literal, they are years.

What Church are you a member of Gibs?

[Dr. Rich]

William Miller and the 'bunch' didn't have the internet and the ability to research like we have today my friend. We also have the knowledge that what they believed was false as Jesus did NOT come because NO ONE was ready. They also believed they were the Bride, but Matthew 25:1-13 and Rev. 7:9-15 shows the bride is not made ready until after the time of trouble starts.

Those "months" are what God calls months, they are New Moons. Don't change the words, keep them exactly how God wanted them and then you can use this timeing process as a template to (insight) to deduct when Jesus will come in the clouds. But I know, many of you are blinded by the words of others so it is impossible to have any 'insight'. But some day soon we shall see what the real truth is.

On this issue, notice that the 'Holy People' have the 42 new moons? Yes, the time of trouble starts on God's start for a year (spring equinox) and ends three and a half years later on the fall equinox.

[Gibs]

ClubV12,

You know the Apostles also had the idea the close would come in their time.

Here's on from Paul,

Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds

Here is one from John,

1Jo 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

You see they also got "the cart ahead of the horse". Things from God are in the "now" and so we have to look for His time of it clue and sometimes isn't seen until it's time. That is the case on these last propheciess pertinent for the last time which we are in and it is near the end of it.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[ClubV12]

ADAM thought the Messiah would be one of his children, as far as that goes.

Some folks thought the Lord would return "soon" in Pauls time, but he personally knew better. With each passing age we became more wise in discerning the passage of time. Now, in THIS age, we can see more clearly than in any age passed. We are, without a doubt, at the "time of the end".

It is a fools game, Dr.Rich, to attempt to put a time frame on it to a year or even a season. We DO know it's close, but we CANNOT wildly speculate on when.

William Miller, Ellen White, the Adventist pioneers, they got it right. They didn't need the "internet" to figure it out, they used the bible and history books. The internet seems mostly to generate foolish doctrines and the devisings of wild fanatics.

[Gibs]

If Paul knew better he was speaking out his mind here,

Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds

John echoed the same,

1Jo 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Dr. Rich]

ADAM thought the Messiah would be one of his children, as far as that goes.

Some folks thought the Lord would return "soon" in Pauls time, but he personally knew better. With each passing age we became more wise in discerning the passage of time. Now, in THIS age, we can see more clearly than in any age passed. We are, without a doubt, at the "time of the end".

It is a fools game, Dr.Rich, to attempt to put a time frame on it to a year or even a season. We DO know it's close, but we CANNOT wildly speculate on when.

William Miller, Ellen White, the Adventist pioneers, they got it right. They didn't need the "internet" to figure it out, they used the bible and history books. The internet seems mostly to generate foolish doctrines and the devisings of wild fanatics.

Are you saying that the 144,000 will NOT know the correct time Jesus comes? Shoot, even EGW said that they will. Just as Noah new when it would rain (in 7 days) so too will the 144,000 know exactly the same thing Jesus now knows because the Father told Him and He gave it to the 144,000 to know (see Re. 1:1).

And IF you looked at the chart and studied it, then you would know that this is NOT any "wildly speculation"! It's from the template found in Revelation--after all just what do you think the book of Revelation is all about? Huh? It's all about time--the time when, who, why and how the end will take place.

By the way, where in the world did you get the assumption that Adam thought one of his children would be the Messiah? And for that matter, all of what you wrote about Paul too?

[ClubV12]

Gibs, I have no idea what you mean to imply with the above verses.

Dr. Rich, your chart of end time events is totally worthless, pure speculation, the ramblings of a confused mind.

[Dr. Rich]

Gibs, I have no idea what you mean to imply with the above verses.

Dr. Rich, your chart of end time events is totally worthless, pure speculation, the ramblings of a confused mind.

Club, please be more specific. What is it that makes it hard for you to understand? Perhaps the dark glasses you have on?

Can you give me ONE good reason for God not having His months (new moons) going into God's year evenly? I mean, IF God is a God of order wouldn't one think that those months would evenly fit into His year? If you can answer this question, then you just MIGHT have the first clue as to opening the door to unlock the things that the wicked will never know.

It's a template my friend--that's all it is. If the time is off, then we just need to adjust the next time in the future to fit the template. But right now it sure appears to be correct.

[ClubV12]

I have no idea what your talking about Gib's. It has nothing to do with dark glasses, it has to do with your rambling thoughts.

[Gibs]

ClubV12,

You ain't a comphrehending is the trouble. Many for years beginning with the Apostles thought that they were in the last days. Then I gave you proof and you have no idea what I am saying? Come on man read these again!

Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds

John echoed the same,

1Jo 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Lysimachus]

Gibs is determined to go against the counsels of Sister White, and remove the old landmarks. Remove the pins, and try to revamp our foundations. He's dead set on this course, and nothing is going to stop him. He quotes verses from Revelation, thinking there is a problem, but when will he open up some solid exegetical studies providing detailed analyses of the order and textual and contextual issues in these passages? It's all out there Gibs. Even Uriah Smith has broken these verses down in great detail.

The 42 months are not literal Gibs. They are NOT literal. You are wrong. They are NOT solar days. 1260 = 30 days per month. That's the bottom line.

Also keep in mind that the scriptures demand the following of the time period in question:

1. That it be Exactly 42 months (Rev. 11:2; 12:6)

2. That it be Exactly 1260 days (Rev. 11:3; 12:6)

3. That it be Exactly 3.5 years (Dan. 7:25; 12:7; Rev. 12:14)

If we go by the Solar Calendar of 365.2422 days, then we must multiply it by 3.5:

365.2422 x 3.5 = 1,278 days... not 1260. That's an 18 day discrepancy!

That being said, 1260 days (which the Bible also calls "42 months") is not actually 42 months, but less than 41 and 1/2 months.

The Lunar Reckoning is just as problametic. God made it impossible for us to consider these time periods literal, as he exhausted every expression possible (except the expression "three years and six months"). And when every one of these expressions are taken into consideration, it is absolutely impossible to make these time periods literal.

[Gibs]

My friend they sure are literal for the reason these events have not happened yet and there is no more "time" day for a year after 1844. Yes I realize the prophecy is given in moonths and they are reckoned as 30 days.

Our 12 divisions are not the original MOONTHS.

In plain English, chapter 8, the trumpets haven't happened yet and 11 hasn't happened yet.

Never, never was there a time on earth that a third of the trees were burned up and al the GREEN grass burned up chap 8 and 11 the church isn't measured up yet and when it is then the rest of the chap begins.

So many will not read and comphrend for themselves that it is like the one the reformers came out of. We can only believe what we been told by the hierarchy and we do not think for ourselves, we are not learned.

It's about over now, we are very near into those prophecies and few see it. Why? Closed minds to see further!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Dr. Rich]

Gibs, we are seeing prophecy right before our eyes. Rev. 2:18-25 makes it clear that good people like Marcos and clubV12 still tolorate (that woman). Just as Paul's words deceived Millions into believing that the Sabbath was changed to Sunday, so too have the words of (that woman) caused those who would have been bond servants for Jesus to be led astray.

[Lysimachus]

My friend they sure are literal for the reason these events have not happened yet and there is no more "time" day for a year after 1844. Yes I realize the prophecy is given in moonths and they are reckoned as 30 days.

Our 12 divisions are not the original MOONTHS.

In plain English, chapter 8, the trumpets haven't happened yet and 11 hasn't happened yet.

Never, never was there a time on earth that a third of the trees were burned up and al the GREEN grass burned up chap 8 and 11 the church isn't measured up yet and when it is then the rest of the chap begins.

So many will not read and comphrend for themselves that it is like the one the reformers came out of. We can only believe what we been told by the hierarchy and we do not think for ourselves, we are not learned.

It's about over now, we are very near into those prophecies and few see it. Why? Closed minds to see further!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

You are inventing the notion that "time" after 1844 is only in reference to the year-day principle. There is no proof for that. This is an "injected" private interpretation concerning the meaning of "time".

And you cannot take the 7 trumpets literal. If you do, the population would have already been wiped out by the 1st and 2nd trumpet, and nobody would be able to make it through the next 5 trumpets. These are symbolic, not literal.

[Gibs]

Them trumpets haven't happened yet, you are not reading my post, Jesus will give the signal, that is the timing clue,

Re 8:5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.

Re 8:6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

Now, EGW,

“That there should be time no longer.” This message announces the end of the prophetic periods. The disappointment of those who expected to see our Lord in 1844 was indeed bitter to those who had so ardently looked for His appearing. It was in the Lord’s order that this disappointment should come, and that hearts should be revealed. {CTr 340.3}

Re 10:6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:

Again EGW speaks,

"And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer" (Revelation 10:5, 6). This message announces the end of the prophetic periods. The disappointment of those who expected to see our Lord in 1844 was indeed bitter to those who had so ardently looked for His appearing. It was in the Lord's order that this disappointment should come." . . . {Mar 18.2}

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Dr. Rich]

What? Havn't you heard the Adventists blow out the three angels messages around the world yet? (wink wink) Yes, they have jumped the gun and now the cart is before the horse! And then there were all of those "net1998-net2011' demanding more money from the poor folks in order to make sure Jesus will come sooner for some odd reason. Hey, that's a joke! Jesus will come at the correct appointed time and you and I can't make it go faster or slower! And of course Jesus can't come before the first trumpet sounds and a third of the green shrubs are burned up! That can't happen till the 144k are sealed and of course that hasn't happened yet. But first the sleeping KOH must do their 'split' and that hasn't happened yet--but it appears it's now getting started.

The first beast of Rev. 13 (New World Order) is not yet ready to rule, but sure is getting ready!