He Came To Enable Us!

[Gibs]

A Quote From EGW,

"Christ thought it not robbery to be equal with God, and yet He pleased not Himself. He took upon Himself human nature for no other purpose than to place man on vantage ground before the world and the whole heavenly universe. He carries sanctified humanity to heaven, there always to retain humanity as it would have been if man had never violated God's law. The overcomers, who upon the earth were partakers of the divine nature, He makes kings and priests unto God.--Manuscript 156, Oct. 26, 1903, "Christ, Our Divine-Human Example." {UL 313.6}

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Our salvation is the most important topic we could ever come to contemplate and get straight in our minds and hearts.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[skyblue888]

Great quote Gibs but I believe the first sentence is not accurate,,, may be Mrs. White's helper failed to see that:

Christ thought it not robbery to be equal with God...

More like Lucifer thought it not robbery to be equal with God... because he aspired to be God.

But Christ, though He was equal with God, did not think it a matter to be earnestly desired to be equal with God, but He emptied Himself and took upon Him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of man: and being found in the fashion of a man, He humbled Himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. (Phil.2:5-8)

Some translations of this passage really need to be looked at.

Unless it is meant to say that it was no robbery on the part of Christ to be equal with God because He was equal with God but Lucifer who was a mere creature aspired to be God.

sky

[Gail]

Sky, I take that to mean that even though Christ knew the truth, that He WAS in truth God's Son, that He willingly instead came to serve instead of to be served. He had a right to call Himself that- equal with God- whereas Satan did not.

[Gibs]

Sky, EGW made that statement 92 times in her published writings.

Joh 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

We have this verses that states so plainly that it was the Father that was in Christ,

2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

A surprising statement for sure but proves out to be true.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gibs]

Sky, Here's one that is even more surprising,

" The Jews had never before heard such words from human lips, and a convicting influence attended them; for it seemed that divinity flashed through humanity as Jesus said, "I and my Father are one." The words of Christ were full of deep meaning as he put forth the claim that he and the Father were of one substance, possessing the same attributes.--The Signs of the Times, Nov. 27, 1893, p. 54. {7ABC 437.3}

Yet the Son of God was the acknowledged Sovereign of heaven, one in power and authority with the Father."--The Great Controversy, p. 495. {7ABC 437.4}

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[skyblue888]

I think u misread my reply if you are trying to convince me that Christ is God in the highest sense.

[skyblue888]

Sky, I take that to mean that even though Christ knew the truth, that He WAS in truth God's Son, that He willingly instead came to serve instead of to be served. He had a right to call Himself that- equal with God- whereas Satan did not.

... He had a right to call Himself that- equal with God- whereas Satan did not.

Gail, that was my point exactly!

sky :)

[Gibs]

My main point of the post was to show Jesus came to enable us to be overcomers. Since the post is short I'll put it here,

A Quote From EGW,

"Christ thought it not robbery to be equal with God, and yet He pleased not Himself. He took upon Himself human nature for no other purpose than to place man on vantage ground before the world and the whole heavenly universe. He carries sanctified humanity to heaven, there always to retain humanity as it would have been if man had never violated God's law. The overcomers, who upon the earth were partakers of the divine nature, He makes kings and priests unto God.--Manuscript 156, Oct. 26, 1903, "Christ, Our Divine-Human Example." {UL 313.6}

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[ClubV12]

I see your point Sky, the thought and the intention of the quote are beautiful.

"Christ thought it not robbery to be equal with God...", original.

or

"Lucifer thought it not robbery to be equal with God...", proposed as possible mistake.

The question is the possibility of a mistake by who ever wrote down what Sister White said incorrectly. Which is not likely if she wrote it herself, as she often did, in long hand. She first used the phrase, as near as I can figure, in January, 1887 for a Signs of the Times article. She contributed a LOT of articles to the Signs! Did she dictate them? Not likely, we see virtually no evidence that she dictated anything to anybody. Did she write these articles out in long hand? I think that is more likely, which the editors or workers would then transcribe into text for the printing machine.

Did somebody during that process of preparing the text for printing take it upon themselves to change the word "Lucifer" to "Christ"? WHOA, that really stretches the imagination, that particular scenario seems highly unlikely. I could understand minor editorial errors but changing the name Lucifer to Christ would be such a blaring and obvious undertaking it would be paramount to a truly "devilish" scheme!

Another scenario would be that the letter/article for the Signs was dictated and the scibe inadvertantly changed the word while writing. Once again a mistake of profound magnitude, difficult to comprehend, considering this isn't just a misplaced word, it's Lucifer vs Christ. It doesn't get anymore fundamental than that!

Another scenairo is that Ellen White herself made a mistake, she meant to say Lucifer but instead used the word Christ. I don't put much weight on that either.

I would have to say the most likely thing is exactly the way it appears in the original source, the Signs article. That phrase, as Gibs noted, was used and repeated many times over in various other books, pamphlets, articles, etc as recently as the 1980's by the EGW EState. Surely someone would have said something by now!

I think it stands, as written, and it's beautiful.

[LynnDel]

The context, as much as I can see of it here, appears to be a discussion of Christ, not of Lucifer. I don't see how Lucifer would fit into Gibs' paragraph. That Lucifer may have thought he was at least equal with Christ (or God), or aspired to be, is a topic that this paragraph does not cover. Am I missing something somewhere?

LD

[ClubV12]

Hmmm, no I don't you did LynnDel. Sky simply observed a possible mistype or editing error of the original quote and it was looked at with a microscope for a moment or two.

...back to a beautiful thread...

[Gibs]

This is the original short post so you won't have to go back to see it,

My main point of the post was to show Jesus came to enable us to be overcomers.

A Quote From EGW,

"Christ thought it not robbery to be equal with God, and yet He pleased not Himself. He took upon Himself human nature for no other purpose than to place man on vantage ground before the world and the whole heavenly universe. He carries sanctified humanity to heaven, there always to retain humanity as it would have been if man had never violated God's law. The overcomers, who upon the earth were partakers of the divine nature, He makes kings and priests unto God.--Manuscript 156, Oct. 26, 1903, "Christ, Our Divine-Human Example." {UL 313.6}

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

_________________________

A Freeman In Jesus Christ

[skyblue888]

The context, as much as I can see of it here, appears to be a discussion of Christ, not of Lucifer. I don't see how Lucifer would fit into Gibs' paragraph. That Lucifer may have thought he was at least equal with Christ (or God), or aspired to be, is a topic that this paragraph does not cover. Am I missing something somewhere?

LD

Hey lyn, you are right, it is a discussion of Christ, in contrast with Lucifer who thought it a thing to be seized to be equal with God. Here was a creature who was ready to move heaven and the whole universe so he could be equal with God even if it meant to dethrone God Himself. In contrast, here is Christ who is equal with God, God in the highest sense and yet did not think it a matter to be earnestly desired to be equal with God, instead emptied Himself and took the fashion of a servant.

I believe that Paul under inspiration was trying to show the contrast between the spirit of Christ and the spirit of Lucifer or of the papacy.

sky

[Gibs]

The great purpose of Jesus Christ was to place man on vantage ground over sin and Satan that he could be an overcomer which is a must.

A Quote From EGW,

"Christ thought it not robbery to be equal with God, and yet He pleased not Himself. He took upon Himself human nature for no other purpose than to place man on vantage ground before the world and the whole heavenly universe. He carries sanctified humanity to heaven, there always to retain humanity as it would have been if man had never violated God's law. The overcomers, who upon the earth were partakers of the divine nature, He makes kings and priests unto God.--Manuscript 156, Oct. 26, 1903, "Christ, Our Divine-Human Example." {UL 313.6}

Notice too the overcomers are partakers of the "Divine Nature".

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[skyblue888]

Yes we must not forget the most important point of that statement you quoted. Sorry Gibs if I sidetracted from it.

"With divinity and humanity combined you can accomplish a work as enduring as eternity."

"Separate humanity from divinity, and you can try to work out your own righteousness from now till Christ comes, and it will be nothing but a failure."

"The law of the divine and the human action makes the receiver a laborer together with God. It brings man where he can, united with divinity work the works of God. Humanity touches humanity. Divine power and the human agency combined will be a complete success for Christ's righteousness accomplishes everything." Faith & Works,27,71,27.

But in order for humanity to be indwelt by the divinity of Christ, the soul must daily apply to the merits of the blood of Christ. Under the influence of the Holy Spirit "We shall come in repentance and contrition with a despairing sense of our own finite weakness and learn that we must daily apply to the merits of the blood of Christ that we may become vessels fit for the Master's use." Faith & Works,86.

Thus it is written that "The only faith that will benefit is is that which embraces Him as a personal Saviour: which appropriates His merits to ourselves." Desire of Ages,347.

We appropriate them by claiming them.

sky

[skyblue888]

"Unless he makes it his life business to behold the uplifted Saviour and to accept the merits which it is his privilege to claim, the sinner CAN NO MORE BE SAVED than Peter could walk upon the water unless he kept his eyes fixed steadily upon Jesus." T.M.93.

[Gibs]

Sky, I love Paul's statement to the Gentiles on this very important concept.

Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gibs]

The point brought out in the original post was all must be overcomers and that is why Christ came is to enable us by His indwelling. This happens at full repentance and surrender of the will.

Without His indwelling we are powerless against overcoming Satan and his temptings that are so enticing to the carnal hearts that is our born nature. Being born again is the answer into a new creature with His indwelling.

Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Dr. Rich]

Just what is "Human Nature"? Christ did not merely have human nature, for no human could turn water into wine. Jesus said that He was a king, and for that reason He was born. But He also said His kingdom was not of this realm, so Jesus was more than a simple human with human nature.

Paul was mistaken in Romans 1 into believing that Jesus was born just as all were in those days (they didn't have test tube babies) by the flesh. (see verse 3). And that this regular 'man' was declared the Son of God only AFTER He was raised from the dead. (See verse 4)

Human nature did not change after Adam sinned, it was simply still 'human nature'. If I am wrong, I need to be shown from the OT or the words of Jesus that Adam's nature changed when he sinned.

Remember, to assume something is ok, unless you make that assumption into a fact unsupported by evidence. Then it becomes a lie.

[Gibs]

That's a different argument Dr. Rich and a good dicussion can be had on it. If you would like I will start a thread on that, or you can. The point I'm wanting to stress is, that we can have Christ's indwelling and then the Power of His Divine Nature. We are nothing of our selves and have no ability to overcomercome the world and Satan and the cunning power he has over us.

Joh 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Dr. Rich]

To that Gibs, I fully agree. If not attached to that vine--we have no power of God to help us. The words of Jesus found in John show that when a branch does not produce fruit, then it get's chopped off and thrown into the fire. In can't be grafted back in! Notice too that there is nothing said about any wild tree branch being grafted in either. In fact, Jesus never said anything about anyone being 'adopted' into the family of God. John 3 makes it clear (to me) that one must first be born into the family of God.

One more thing--Jesus said that those branches that did bear fruit would also be pruned..OUCH! Yep, that's true. What does this mean? Could it mean that we are to 'walk in the light' for if we don't, that we will be left in darkness? Like triming the wick- those producing fruit must also have their old 'truth' clipped off and thrown away.

To me, this means that one should never become satisfied that they know it all and that they should believe they are saved. Babies don't run without learning how to run. We must learn by reading the words of Jesus and then abiding in them.

[Gibs]

Amen! And born again Dr. Rich and then one in Him and now enabled and pruned as you rightly state. We are to keep growing and learning until we become more like Him. Our Goal is to be a coveted Overcomer that we can be in His Kingdom.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[skyblue888]

The point brought out in the original post was all must be overcomers and that is why Christ came is to enable us by His indwelling. This happens at full repentance and surrender of the will.

Without His indwelling we are powerless against overcoming Satan and his temptings that are so enticing to the carnal hearts that is our born nature. Being born again is the answer into a new creature with His indwelling.

Gibs

_____________

Gibs, I agree with your second paragraph but I have problem with the first one.

In the first paragraph you seem to be teaching that in order for the Spirit of Christ to dwell in us we must first repent and surrender the will.

This, I believe, is a misconception. Notice these words:

"He who will lay hold of Christ's righteousness need not wait one moment that he himself may blot out his own sins. He need not wait until he has made a suitable repentance before he may take hold upon Christ's righteousness. We do not understand the matter of salvation. It is just as simple as ABC. But we dont' understand it." Faith & Works,64.

"Some seem to feel that they must be on probation and prove to the Lord that they are reformed before they can claim His blessing. But these dear souls may claim the blessing even now. They must have His grace, the Spirit of Christ, to help their infirmities or they cannot form a Christian character. Jesus loves to have us come to Him just as we are, sinful, helpless, dependent." Faith & Works,38.

These two statements clearly teach that these dear souls may receive the blessing, which is His grace, the Spirit of Christ, even now. No need to prove that they are reformed, no need to wait one moment, no need to make a "suitable reprentance" as a condition to receive the Spirit of Christ. Daily, we are to come to God just as we are, sinful, helpless, dependent, trusting wholly in the merits of a crucified and risen Saviour and the blessing is ours, and that blessing is His grace, the Spirit of christ to help our infirmities or we cannot form a Christian character.

"Looking unto Jesus and trusting in His merits we appropriate the blessings of light and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit." 5 T 744.

And this includes the forgiveness of sins, of course.

Back to you,

sky

[Dr. Rich]

Jesus said He was going to heaven-and we could not go there with Him-Right? (at that time). So please tell me how one can have the indwelling of Christ right now? Did Jesus say this, or did Jesus say that He would give the disciples the Holy Spirit instead?

How can the Holy Spirit be the indwelling of Christ? How can anyone have the Holy Spirit 'in' them IF they also have sin? Didn't Jesus say this couldn't happen?

Are you teaching or suggesting that the 'yeng and yang' is the truth? Isn't this the foundation of all Eastern Religions--and Satan's too?

[skyblue888]

The statements I have quoted do not say that they have it but that they may have it now if they want it.

There is a vast difference.

sky