I hope I am posting in the right place, this is about salvation.

[whatisthis]

I think that in order to be saved, we really have to learn how to listen to the Holy Spirit.

It seems to me that there's a difference between the voice of the Holy Spirit telling you that your sins will make you lost if you don’t turn to Jesus, and the voice of Satan telling you how shameful your sins are and that you can never make it, can never do better!

If Satan can’t get us to compare our sins with our friends sins and say that somehow we’ll make it because our sins aren’t too bad compared with theirs, he’ll tell us that our sins are the kind that can’t be conquered and harp on about how ruined we are!

Satan will misquote scripture, and he’ll misquote Ellen White just as easily, to say that we can’t make it on our own. (Which is a good half truth, like most satanic lies.)

The Holy Spirit doesn’t do any of that kind of thing. He points to Jesus! He tells me Jesus can satisfy my great need, whatever it is! It is Jesus intercessory work now that is going to make me whatever I will be when His intercessory work ends, not my work. I could never do that!

There’s also a difference between the Holy Spirit telling you that you can’t cherish sin because soon probation will be over, so you must cherish Jesus now—--and the devil telling you that when probation is over you’ll have to stand without an intercessor so you’d better see if you can try and stand that way now!

It’s Satan (not Ellen White) who tells people that just because they will have to stand without an intercessor, they have to get ready to do that without intercession now! Just because you see your great need doesn’t mean Jesus does not have a way planned to provide for your need! Lean into Him! Do you have to know what that way will be? No, you don’t. We just have to know:

And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 1 John 2:1.

Now here is an excellent quote I found in EGW writings showing that it's Jesus only we have to depend on for salvation:

Jesus is our Advocate, our High Priest, our Intercessor. . . Type met antitype in the death of Christ, the Lamb slain for the sins of the world. Our great High Priest has made the only sacrifice that is of any value in our salvation. When He offered Himself on the cross, a perfect atonement was made for the sins of the people. . . .In His intercession as our advocate, Christ needs no man's virtue, no man's intercession. He is the only sin-bearer, the only sin-offering. Prayer and confession are to be offered only to Him who has entered once for all into the Most Holy Place. He will save to the uttermost all who come to Him in faith. He ever liveth to make intercession for us. . . .

The mightiest created intellect cannot comprehend God; words from the most eloquent tongue fail to describe Him. . . . Men have only one Advocate, one Intercessor, who is able to pardon transgression. Shall not our hearts swell with gratitude to Him who gave Jesus to be the propitiation for our sins? Think deeply upon the love that the Father has manifested in our behalf!

(Signs of the Times, June 28, 1899). From Lift Him Up - Page 319

And we do have the promise of communion with Jesus in that hour when intercession is over, too.

Listen to these quotes and pay special attention to the parts I underlined if you think there will be no heavenly help sent after the close of probation. They’re all taken from Last Day Events, in the order I’m quoting:

Christ has made the atonement for His people and blotted out their sins. The number of His subjects is made up....

When He leaves the sanctuary, darkness covers the inhabitants of the earth. In that fearful time the righteous must live in the sight of a holy God without an intercessor.—The Great Controversy, 613, 614 (1911).

Will the Lord forget His people in this trying hour? ... Though enemies may thrust them into prison, yet dungeon walls cannot cut off the communication between their souls and Christ. One who sees their every weakness, who is acquainted with every trial, is above all earthly powers, and angels will come to them in lonely cells, bringing light and peace from heaven. The prison will be as a palace, for the rich in faith dwell there, and the gloomy walls will be lighted up with heavenly light as when Paul and Silas prayed and sang praises at midnight in the Philippian dungeon.—The Great Controversy, 626, 627 (1911).

Could men see with heavenly vision, they would behold companies of angels that excel in strength stationed about those who have kept the word of Christ’s patience. With sympathizing tenderness, angels have witnessed their distress and have heard their prayers. They are waiting the word of their Commander to snatch them from their peril.... The precious Saviour will send help just when we need it.—The Great Controversy, 630, 633 (1911).

It is impossible to give any idea of the experience of the people of God who shall be alive upon the earth when celestial glory and a repetition of the persecutions of the past are blended. They will walk in the light proceeding from the throne of God. By means of the angels there will be constant communication between heaven and earth....

In the midst of the time of trouble that is coming—a time of trouble such as has not been since there was a nation—God’s chosen people will stand unmoved. Satan and his host cannot destroy them, for angels that excel in strength will protect them.—Testimonies for the Church 9:16, 17 (1909).

Knowing that I will have heavenly communion after probation is closed is not supposed to take away my urge to be rid of sinful thoughts and desires and to love Jesus more and more! I could tell the Holy Spirit who is showing me how much wrong desire is in me, "Go away, I don't need your Jesus!" I could do that in so many ways!

One of them would be to try to figure out if I’m strong enough to stand without an intercessor and start looking to my own adequacy as my hope! No! It’s Jesus that my inadequacy is supposed to lead me to!

So when I know I need Him and I long for His mercy and I hope to be forgiven and saved more than I hope for any other thing because I want most most of all to live in Jesus, with Jesus, thru’ Jesus—then Jesus saves me! I belong to Jesus now! All of Satan's taunting mockery for my horrible sins is totally inappropriate. I have chosen Jesus and He is mine!

Why?

Jesus has already chosen me, He’s forgiven all my sins, and all the sins of everyone else too, and I don’t have to judge between me and them any more, I can just accept the great rolling tide of forgiveness!

I can choose Jesus life-path of peace and reject the “carnage and death” caused by sin! As I stand in Judgment, right now, the question I have in front of me is: What's my intent? Is it to be like the Most High myself, and enthrone me, or to follow Jesus?

As I say Jesus is counting friendships, I am thinking immediately, what about the fact the “pleasures of sin” are so attractive? What if I still have longings for that? And then immediately I thought quite wryly how sin has hurt me. Some people may think sin is just fun, but I don't think anyone who hangs on to a sin long enough to where he knows he has no way to let go thinks that sin is fun anyMORE. Sin isn't some kind of treasure, I know by experience that it's terrible! Am I lucky there? Well, whatever it takes.

If finding that out was part of the path to victory, then was I on an “uninterrupted path to victory”? (Do you remember that quote? It puzzled me.) I am starting to think that as long as this is the outcome, that I love Jesus more and HATE sin more, then it’s true that I was on a path to victory!

But I sure don’t want any ANY more of that path, because it hurts people whom I love more than life itself, and I don’t want to hurt people! The more I hate sin, the more it seems to me that I unreservedly love other people—obviously caught in it! But it also seems to me that I keep messing up and stepping all over their toes!

Although I can see I hate sin more and love others a lot (and need to learn more love more than I ever knew I did before)-- I am still part of old fleshly habits and imperfect understandings, and I stumble along, as you can tell, even from my posts! In fact sometimes it’s hard to go on at all, realizing how much that happens. But here’s the thing. Jesus is my intercessor. He has a plan to make me pure and holy, and I can get up again because there’s grace now and there’s more later!

I hate sin more and more because sin is not fun, it’s why God chose to call it sinful. It doesn’t work, it never could work. God doesn’t hate sin arbitrarily, I can see that now! I can live without cherishing any of sin’s searing pain. Here’s a for instance that maybe I shouldn’t use because it impacts men more than me, but I’m going there anyway:

Does anyone think porn is fun? But what would happen if you opened a site and there was your best friend from childhood, your daughter, your mother, your own...---AAAaagh!. That would take the fun out.

Have you ever heard the story of a young man who went searching for his lost sister, and somehow finally ended up in his weary travels, going in to a prostitute, as a client. When he opened the door, there she was! It was his sister!

Oh the horror of that! Then it must have seemed like death was better than life and death the only solution, everything—all—was ruined and painful! Shame! That’s all it was! And every woman in porn is someone Jesus made to be loved like a daughter, a mother, a granddaughter, a friend. And look what has happened to her!

The poor fellow who found his sister in a whorehouse, oh how sad he must have been, and the poor girl, captive and torn and shamed, how painful for her-- and even the poor enslavers--even they must have felt this and longed not to be themselves right then! And there was hope for all of them! Did you know it was a man who ran slave ships who wrote the song Amazing Grace? It was!

You see, there’s a better solution than to call a woman “ruined”, a better solution even than to avenge her ruin. There’s a solution that takes away death and brings life instead.

Jesus found a better solution for sinners than earthly justice is—He makes us loved again, whether abuser or abused. He says, “I could condemn you, that’s my position, but because it is my place to judge, I take your place and let you go. Just go and be free from this, you don’t have to make it your path another minute. You’re not ruined.” The solution is not shame!

Most people, it seems to me, look at that story and say “Wow, he loved even that lousy mess of a woman, and if Jesus loved her He can love anyone.”

I don’t think Jesus saw it that way. He saw a beautiful clean holy woman before him. He respected her so much, guess who He visited first on resurrection day!

Mary knew the Pharisees would get Jesus for freeing her. She knew better than anyone that freeing a sinner means Satan and his bunch are going to make somebody pay! And she trembled in sorrow un-imaginable as he was stripped and beaten and hung on a cross—for her. So when she came once more with perfume, this time to embalm Him, He stepped up to her in those funeral gardens and said her name! And He’s saying your name and mine!

A Saviour is born. Immanuel is with me. He brings a new life without drunkenness or jealousy or lust, without cussing or anger or neglect or judgmental attitudes or whatever negative thing Satan wants me to have a little of.

People don’t stop to think about the other sinner caught in sin in that story of the woman forgiven. I'd say his name was Simon, if I understand the story right from Desire of Ages.

Definitely there was a man caught in sin. Adultery is not a one-person sin, and Simon seems to be the man caught in it, but Jesus forgave him too! And Simon became a pure man! Now that’s a miraculous wonderful story!

Think about it. The callous man who lured a woman into sin with his own body, tried to get her stoned to death for what he was doing to her, and then held a party for her rescuer that he wanted her kept out of—- that man became saved!

Isn’t that wonderful! And there was salvation for Jonah, the prophet of God who didn’t obey God and found himself hopelessly lost at the bottom of the sea, and the list goes on and on and it includes me!

I don't have to say I'm no longer worthy to claim a good clean lifestyle in Jesus even if I last fell just this morning, I can get up. (OH I don’t want to fall, but if I fall I can get up!) I can in Jesus name tell the accuser of the brethren to go away and live better every day, more pure, more sweetly less accusingly.

And even if Satan keeps yammering with shame and accusation and temptation and every bitter thing he can drum up both at me and is trying to get me to pass it on by shaming others, I don't have to give that any mind. Why? It's because Jesus is worthy! JESUS is worthy! I don’t have to judge my friends, I don’t even have to judge me!

Jesus is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world for us! You and I can hang in there and hold up our heads in hope because Jesus is coming! And when He gets here I'll never hear the voice of Satan again accusing us of being lost again. The wonderful thing there is more of later is HEAVEN! WITH JESUS! WHO LOVES ME! Wow.

[Kevin H]

I understand the Bible and Mrs. White to teach that hell "fire" is not what we find when we light a match, but rather to be the glory, love, power, greatness of seeing God visibly and in person and that Jesus is the desire of ages, the one more desireable than gold, sweeter than honey and the honey comb, that our deepest desire is to love the world as Jesus has loved it, to be like and with Jesus.

That God's love is not some sticky sweet emotionalism but a streanth that encourages the best in us. However if we don't want the best encouraged in us it can be very uncomfortable to be in an overwhelming power that calls out the best in us.

Thus, saved or lost, God treats us all the same, heaven and hell are the same event, the only difference is those of us who have made a habit of yielding to the Holy Spirit will continue to yield and find it heaven to be with our deepest desire. Those who develope habits of resisting the promptings of the Holy are in a in a delema of being overwhelmingly attracted to Christ, yet having developed a character of refusing to yield to the spirit. They want to come but see their character in contrast to the purety of Christ and feel that God has to get them for their sins and want to hide from God.

While the saved cast down their crowns singing "Worthy, worthy is the lamb" the lost don't believe Jesus when he says that his grace is sufficient for them.

The lost see loved ones in the city that they long to be reunited with, but also realize that they have used their loved ones for their own selfish purposes and see others who they have also used and manipulated and realize that they would continue to use and manapulate others and knows that the one on the throne sees the deepest darkest recesses of their mind and character and life and since they are unforgiving they can not comprehend that God can be forgiving thus they are terrorfied of Jesus and want to pull away and hide, and there is no place to hide.

Never the less, Jesus is still their deepest desire, and they are more attracted to Jesus than anything that caught their eye before, and they are in a psychological conflect of wanting to run into his loving arms, yet they have locked themselves into a mental prision where they refuse to do what the deepest part of them wants to do, and instead they sulk at to how unfair life is cower in their fear that God is going to get them. They want to run and throw them selves at Jesus' feet and they want to draw back and hide from him get as far away from him as they can. They have destroyed their capability to choose and God will not force.

This conflect quite litterally ripps them appart and it is a stalemate of a God who keeps loving them with irresistable grace, yet their choice to refuse to yield puts the lost in a posiiton where they physically can not exist. The glory of him that is love will destroy the wicked.

[Gibs]

Here's one little quote of EGW's,

"I long to see you improving the capabilities given you by God, so that you can respond to the inquiry, "What must I do to be saved?" Let the words fall from sanctified lips, "Be saved by accepting Christ by faith as your personal Saviour." God is love. The sinner need not perish if he will exercise faith in the wonderful efficacy of the cross of Christ. The cross is the stupendous expedient by which is harmonized the love and justice of God. It is the sinner's only means of salvation. . . . The image of His love may be so stamped upon the mind that it can never be effaced. Then Jesus Christ will be so evidently set forth crucified before you that you will be a partaker of the dignity of His suffering. I have such an intense longing that you may look into the heart of this great mystery, and find that its interpretation is love. . . . {LHU 252.4}

As you make a full surrender of your will to God's will, your way to God's way, you will learn of Him who is meek and lowly in heart, and will find rest unto your soul. A calm confidence will preside over you. . . . You will experience more and more clearly the sense of an ever-present, all-pervading Saviour. This will give the soul power . . . , which the changing circumstances of earth cannot undermine. It plants the feet upon a solid rock." (letter 123, 1901).

I find on the Salvation issue EGW can not be bettered by any man.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gibs]

Amen, Bro. EGW taught the true gospel, the saving gospel, the gospel of the kingdom. False gospel teaching won't get one there.

There is much teaching of the gospel message today that is false. True Love is the Fulfilling of the Law.

1Jo 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

EGW,

. "To know God is to love Him; His character must be manifested in contrast to the character of Satan. This work only one Being in all the universe could do. Only He who knew the height and depth of the love of God could make it known. Upon the world's dark night the Sun of Righteousness must rise," "with healing in His wings." Malachi 4:2. {DA 22.1}

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Dr. Rich]

What is your test to make sure the 'voice' in your head is, or isn't the HOly Spirit? Remember, to be deceived the counterfiet MUST look like the real truth. So then, can you please show us the test you use for this?

[Gibs]

Dr. Rich, By the Fruits.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Dr. Rich]

A voice in your head does not have fruits. Ha Ha, now lets try this again, please?

Has anyone read the book called "The Beautiful Side of Evil"? I have it and it is on point here because many have been deceived into believing the NICE Warm fuzzy things they hear are from God, when they are really from Satan.

Wasn't it Satan who told Eve some nice warm fuzzy lies that she believed? I can just hear him say this now: "AHHH, come on Eve, you know God will not kill you--He made you! God's love and grace is so BIG that He sent His Son to die for everyone's sin in order for them just to believe and have faith and SAY you are dying that same death, so that you too will be saved by grace. Of course you can't stop sinning--God knew that so just receive Jesus' righteousness by faith and stop worring!"

This is exactly what Paul taught. Sure, Paul said some things to please the Jews, but he said enough things to confuse people into a false hope. Jesus said "See to it that you do NOT become deceived!" See the problem?

[Gibs]

Dr. Rich,

Ro 6:1 ¶ What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

Ro 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Ro 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Ro 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Ro 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. The Test.

Then Paul revealed to the Gentiles the mystery of how they could be overcomers.

Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Dr. Rich]

Gibs, while one can find that Paul said and wrote to keep the law, there are enough verses that Paul wrote that you don't need to anymore because you are saved by grace and your righteousness is by faith alone.

Paul admitted saying one thing to the Jews and another to the Gentiles and also admitted that he lied.

Jesus would NEVER have done the things that Paul did. Can you find me any other person who caused so much confusion and thru this confusion caused so many different christian denominations today?

Yes, it was Paul who did the scattering. No one else in the history of this world did so much damage to the real truth presented by Jesus Himself.

[Gibs]

Dr. Rich, Paul just made it clear when the law is in your hearts you are not under the law anymore but as soon as you do sin then the law returns and he says you again are "dead". Very true. The law remains as a schoolmaster he taught to condemn again of your sin to bring you back to full repentance again.

You are the one preaching a damaaging report on one who made it clearer than all the rest of how to find and retain salvation through Jesus Christ. Paul was definitly one of the best builders of the Kingdom there ever was.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Dr. Rich]

LOL, God's law will NEVER go away my friend! That is what everyone will be judged by. The written law was God's law before it was written down and as found in Jer. it was to be on the minds and hearts, that same law.

Regardless of how you read Paul, you will have to agree that MANY who call themselves christian, refuse to obey all of them--especially the 4th. Why? Who is to blame? Blame Paul for confusing them into believing that NO ONE can keep them, so why try?

The Adventist Church 'reads' Paul one way, and the other christian church's read Paul the other way. Why? Adventists pick and choose what they want from Paul's words, while ignoring other words of Paul who said to keep women silent in church (among other things). They do the same with EGW's words.

As for 'dying daily', that's so stupid it makes me cry laughing! If you die, then that's it! Period! Sure, one can repent daily, but dying daily??? That's pure sillyness. Here is the thing: It is impossible for the Holy Spirit to be in anyone who also sins! Praying to God the Father while having sin on one's mind is like shaking hands with someone and then kicking them in the groin. It just don't work that way!

[Dr. Rich]

Gibs, I notice there are some Seventh-day Adventists who reject Paul's writings; a new 'movement' one could say.

Has the SDA church officially addressed these warmongers?

Not that I could see.

It seems to me now a days for an answer everything and everybody is just ignored in the SDA church. Like you people did with me ... JUST NEVER PAID ATTENTION to me. It works like a bomb ... like a landmine you planted and forgot about. One day you must cross its place again ...

Here is a real question for you to answer Seventhday: Can you tell me what the difference is between the 'wheat' and the 'tares'? The answer to this is why the "New Movement" you wrote about is getting larger and larger. ONLY at the very last, just be harvest time, do/will the servants for the Master SEE the difference. NO ONE knew the difference while they both were growing up for about 2000 years, because they did NOT know or understand that Paul was a false apostle. Therefore, what Jesus prophecied about in Matt. 13 (Wheat and Tares) is a true prophecy and it has NOW come true.