the king of the north

[skyblue888]

I would like to begin a new thread on "the king of the north;" I ask that you read every post, if you are interested, of course, and patiently follow the train of thought and keep your comments to yourselves, if that is possible, until you have read the whole. Thank you for your co-operation. I hope you will enjoy this little exercise and that it will shed additional light to this very captivating topic.

God bless, sky

The book of Daniel itself is a progressive revelation of gospel truth. Its setting is the great struggle between the kingdom of darkness and the kingdom of light. As it opens, the powers of Satan in the form of ancient Babylon are in the ascendancy. Israel is in bondage, both to sin within and Satan's power without. It appears to Nebuchadnezzar that man's way of building a universal empire is the way of success and has triumphed over God's way of doing things.

In the light of this setting the God of Heaven came through to reveal to the king the ultimate outworking of his way and of God's way. For Satan's way, it will be but scattered dust, while God's way will result in the setting of an eternal kingdom of righteousness.

to be continued

[miz3]

I would like to begin a new thread on "the king of the north;" I ask that you read every post, if you are interested, of course, and patiently follow the train of thought and keep your comments to yourselves, if that is possible, until you have read the whole. Thank you for your co-operation. I hope you will enjoy this little exercise and that it will shed additional light to this very captivating topic.

God bless, sky

The book of Daniel itself is a progressive revelation of gospel truth. Its setting is the great struggle between the kingdom of darkness and the kingdom of light. As it opens, the powers of Satan in the form of ancient Babylon are in the ascendancy. Israel is in bondage, both to sin within and Satan's power without. It appears to Nebuchadnezzar that man's way of building a universal empire is the way of success and has triumphed over God's way of doing things.

In the light of this setting the God of Heaven came through to reveal to the king the ultimate outworking of his way and of God's way. For Satan's way, it will be but scattered dust, while God's way will result in the setting of an eternal kingdom of righteousness.

to be continued

Your basic assumption here is that there is "A Great Controversy Between Christ and Satan" and that it is this "Controversy" is what fuels everything.

Am I correct in this, sky?

[skyblue888]

Of course. :)

[miz3]

Of course.

Thank you that allows me to know for sure the basis from which you coming from.

[Gibs]

At present I will just make a small observation, and that is it may be that chapters 10-12 are all one vision. That there is a breaking point in chap. 11: verses 34 and 35.

And it changed to the king now being Satan as this verse points out, this being after AD70, not iron clad on that date. The time of destruction of Jerusalem.

Da 11:36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

To me this reveals it is Satan and will prosper till the "indignation" be accomplished.

This is the same "indignation" used in Dan. 8:19 and there is is made clear it is God's last furious wrath with sin.

That indignation is, za`am zah'-am

from 2194; strictly froth at the mouth, i.e. (figuratively) fury (especially of God's displeasure with sin):--angry, indignation, rage.

Sky, anxious to get the rest of your see of this.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[skyblue888]

The great controvery, of which the books of both Daniel and the Revelation, along with every other book of the Bible, is the recorded history. As we know, it began up in Heaven before this world was even created. Lucifer aspired to take the place of the Son of God. To achieve this he bent all the powers of his master mind, but he failed to do this. He fell from Heaven, never again to enter its sacred precincts.

Of that fall, we read, "How art thou fallen from Heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which dist weaken the nations!"

The question is asked here as to how it was that this all happened. The answer comes in the following verses:

"For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into Heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High." Isa.14:12-14.

Jesus Christ is the King of kings and Lord of lords. In aspiring to take His place, Lucifer sought to ascend into the sides of the north. Had he done so, then he would have become the King of the North in Heaven in the place of Christ who is the true King of the North.

Just why Christ as King should be in the sides of the north we do not know, at least as yet. But the Bible states the fact of it quite clearly in the verse above. Not only is it stated there but also elsewhere in the Scriptures of truth:

"Great is the Lord, and greatly to be praised in the city of our God, in the mountain of His holiness. Beautiful for situation, the joy of the whole earth, is Mount Zion, in the sides of the north, the city of the great King." Ps.48:1,2.

So it is clear, then, that the capital city of God is designated as being, in the sides of the north, and it is to be the king of this Capital that Lucifer aspired to be. Now, what he failed to achieve in Heaven, he has been seeking ever since to achieve down here upon this earth. He could not replace Christ up in Heaven, but he has worked to replace Him below. He could not sit on the throne of God in Heaven, so he has sought to be the King of the North down here upon the earth.

"He shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas and the glorious holy mountain." Dan.11:45.

"In this world he has set up a kingdom of darkness, of which he, the leader in guilt, is prince. He desired to usurp the throne of God. Failing in this, he has worked in darkness, in crookedness, in deception, to usurp his place in the hearts of men. He has set up his throne between God and man, to appropriate the adoration that belongs to God." E.G. White, 6 B.C.1119.

"Satan has planted his satanic throne between the human worshiper and the divine Father." E.G. White, MR, 7,215.

to be continued

[phkrause]

So far I'm following your train of thought, and am in agreement. I really like that passage from Psalms. Here is how David Stern translates it: 1 A song. A psalm of the descendants of Korach: Great is ADONAI and greatly to be praised, in the city of our God, his holy mountain, 2 beautiful in its elevation, the joy of all the earth, Mount Tziyon, in the far north, the city of the great king.

[skyblue888]

Thank you pk. Nice. And yes, Lucifer in his attempt here on earth to establish his kingdom of darkness, has planted his throne (the tabernacles of his palace) between the seas (multitudes of this earth) and the Father, the glorious holy Mountain, in the place of Christ who is the true king of the north.

[skyblue888]

So originally that counterfeit king of the north was located geographically far away from this earth altogether. He was up in Heaven sowing the seeds of rebellion and confusion among the angels. Then his geography changed very dramatically when he was cast out in the darkness of separation from God and Heaven. Then we see him in the heart of and spirit of Cain, the first murderer.

After the flood, Nimrod was upon this earth, the personation of the King of the North. Later still, the great city of Babylon is built. Now the geography is on the banks of the Euphrates River. The geography has changed, it is true, but has the character changed? There has not been the least change whatsoever. There, on the banks of the Euphrates, the devil is still the same. Here, he is working out his character, his spirit, his objectives, and his principles exactly as he did up in Heaven. Geography has made no difference whatsoever.

The time came when Babylon fell at the hand of the Medes and Persians. The city itself was broken down, never to be rebuilt anymore forever. The power which had supported the king of the north was gone, so far as that geographical location was concerned. But Babylon did not pass away, nor did the king of the north cease to exist. It simply moved to a new geography and enlisted the support of new armies, while she encased herself within the confines of new cities.

to be continued

[miz3]

Very interesting. I too like that text from Psalms.

I don't know if I am in agreement with you but I do listen with great interest what you have for us further down the road.

[skyblue888]

Very interesting. I too like that text from Psalms.

I don't know if I am in agreement with you but I do listen with great interest what you have for us further down the road.

miz3

_______________

Fair enough.

When Babylon was overthrown by the Medes and the Persians, the defeated Chaldeans fled to Asia Minor and fixed their central college at Pergamos. Previously, the very center of Satan's warfare against God was geographically located on the River Euphrates. Next it was located in Pergamos in Asia Minor. When it was in the former place, then that is where Satan's seat was, but when in Pergamos, then this became Satan's seat, as it is written: "And to the angel of the church of Pergamos write; These things saith He which hath the sharp sword with two edges; I know thy works, even where Satan's seat is." Rev.2:12,13.

Here in Pergamos, the priests of the Chaldeans carried on the rites of their religion, and plotted against the peace of the Persian Empire, caballing with the Greeks for that purpose.

Satan is: "The prince of this world." John 12:31; 14:30; 16:11. Therefore his seat is a throne. Where his seat or throne is, there is the center of his kingdom. That kingdom is his attempted replacement of the true kingdom of the north. Therefore, as surely as when his seat was on the River Euphrates, Babylon was the king of the north, so surely, when his throne was at Pergamos in the land of Asia Minor, there was the seat of the counterfeit king of the north to be found.

The geography changed but the king of the north does not change. His character is still the same, and his purposes know no variation.

So far so good?

sky

[skyblue888]

Going foreward.

Satan also found his seat in Rome on the River Tiber. There, the religion of Babylon was also established, and it is worthy of note to know that when the Romans marched westward, they found in Pergamos a very firm friend and ally.

So it was, then, that the power exercised on Satan's behalf by the inhabitants of Asia Minor was passed on to the Romans. Rome then replaced Pergamos in Asia Minor as the throne of Satan, and in its Papal form it became the Babylon of the middle Ages and the king of the north.

In these last days Babylon still lives on. It is still the great instrument in the hands of Satan, whereby he seeks to set himself up as the king of the north in the place of Jesus Christ, the true King of the North. Over the centuries the geography had changed again and again, but the character has never changed. Babylon is still Babylon. The counterfeit king of the north is still the counterfeit king of the north, wherever he may be found.

Always in the history of the past and of the present he has been and is at war with God and with His Son. Soon will come the final confrontation. That confrontation is known as the battle of the great day of God Almighty,--the Battle of Armageddon.

sky

[skyblue888]

There is nothing new in the New Testament except as it has already happened in the Old. In fact, the Old Testament is the great book of types, while the New Testament is the great book of antitypes. This is not an imagined idea but the stated fact of the Word of God itself. Many references substantiate it.

Solomon recognized the truth of it already in his day. "The thing that has been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun. Is there anything whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it has been already of old time, which was before us." Ecc.1:9,10;3:15.

What Solomon wrote about was the theme of the Bible, which is the great controversy between Christ and Satan. That which has happened within the framework of this controversy is that which will happen again, so, for every event or struggle of the future, there is the same thing in the past.

There are some who obect very strongly to parallels. This objection is without foundation. The fact is that no one can understand the great truths of the Bible, and least of all, of Revelation, unless the principle of type and antitype is accepted and studied. That which has been will be. There is nothing new under the sun. The mechanisms by which these things are done may be new and unheard of in the past, but the things themselves are not new.

"We are standing on the threshold of great and solemn events. Many of the prophecies are about to be fulfilled in quick succession. Every element of power is about to be set to work. Past history will be repeated; old controversies will arouse to new life, and peril will beset God's people on every side. Intensity is taking hold of the human family. It is permeating everything upon the earth." T.M.116.

As surely as history will be repeated; as surely as there is nothing new under the sun; as surely as that which has been will be again; the better we understand the history of the past, the better we shall know what is coming in the future and be prepared to meet it.

To be continued

[phkrause]

The geography changed but the king of the north does not change. His character is still the same, and his purposes know no variation.

sky