Is WOPE a Pagan practice?

[Alchemy]

Is WOPE a pagan practice?

I believe the practice of female priests and elders originated among the pagan religions. In Acts 19:22-36 we see how the Ephesians honored and revered the false god of Diana, a female god, even if just for money.

In the book of Isaiah, God is explaining to the Israelites what it will be like to be ruled over by pagans, and in chapter 3 verse 12 God compares being ruled over by women as part of being ruled over by pagans.

And in 1 Kings 12:31, the Bible says "He made shrines on the high places, and made priests from every class of people, who were not of the sons of Levi." (NKJV)

I believe the Bible is clear that WOPE would be a pagan practice in these last days.

WOPE means Women Ordained as Pastors or Elders.

[M. T. Cross]

Having women in religious leadership is very common amongst pagan religions, and it is most often a very good thing.

[SivartM]

Oh no, the pagans. Whatever shall we do?

You know what else pagans do? They use the internet. I don't think I have to tell you what that means.

[M. T. Cross]

Oh no, the pagans. Whatever shall we do?

You know what else pagans do? They use the internet. I don't think I have to tell you what that means.

some of them might even be here at club adventist

READY THE TORCHES!!

[Kevin H]

I don't have time to point out the evidence now, but Old Testament scholars and linguists argue that there was women's ordination in Judiasm routinely until about 100 years before Christ, then it was a hot potato topic with the conservatives ordaining women and liberals opposing the ordiantion of women, and that we find Jesus ordaining women.

[Q.E.D.]

Pagans and Christians do a lot of stuff that Christians and Pagans do. Which worships the True and Living God, Pagans or Christians?

[M. T. Cross]

Both Q.E.D., both do.

[Q.E.D.]

Both Q.E.D., both do.

"No man can come to Me, except the Father which hath sent Me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto Me." None will ever come to Christ, save those who respond to the drawing of the Father's love. But God is drawing all hearts unto Him, and only those who resist His drawing will refuse to come to Christ. In the words, "They shall be all taught of God," Jesus referred to the prophecy of Isaiah: "All thy children shall be taught of the Lord; and great shall be the peace of thy children." Isa. 54:13. This scripture the Jews appropriated to themselves. It was their boast that God was their teacher. But Jesus showed how vain is this claim; for He said, "Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto Me." Only through Christ could they receive a knowledge of the Father. Humanity could not endure the vision of His glory. Those who had learned of God had been listening to the voice of His Son, and in Jesus of Nazareth they would recognize Him who through nature and revelation has declared the Father." (Desire of Ages, page 387-388)

[M. T. Cross]

My belief is that the Divine has manifested itself in many different deity, but I know we do not and likely will not agree on that - and there are other threads for that discussion.

What continues to blow my mind is that people that worship the biblical God would think he is so one dimensional that he only uses men to teach. That out of all his creations he would choose the one thing most easily corrupted and swayed by power and self importance - the male of the human species. It seems foolish beyond belief to me.

The Divine will use what the Divine wants. That can be men, women, it can be children for that matter.

[Windsor]

My belief is that the Divine has manifested itself in many different deity, but I know we do not and likely will not agree on that - and there are other threads for that discussion.

Interesting as I believe the devil and his angels have manifested themselves in many different deities.

[Alchemy]

1 Kings 13:33-34; After this event Jeroboam did not turn from his evil way, but again he made priests from every class of people for the high places; whoever wished, he consecrated him, and he became one of the priests of the high places. And this thing was the sin of the house of Jeroboam, so as to exterminate and destroy it from the face of the earth. (NKJV)

God's judgment on this practice is clear. So, I seriously doubt the Jews were consecrating priests for all those centuries. Those supporting WOPE seem to steep to any means to validate their own personal beliefs. And that's ok, until they want to force those beliefs on others.

[Neil D]

Originally Posted By: EmptyCross

My belief is that the Divine has manifested itself in many different deity, but I know we do not and likely will not agree on that - and there are other threads for that discussion.

Interesting as I believe the devil and his angels have manifested themselves in many different deities.

So, Windsor....Isn't believing that women and Satan manifestations in many different dieties sorta like believing that women are the root cause of all the problems that plague mankind? Isn't that sorta like comparing apples and oranges and saying that we can compare them because they are fruit?

I'm just asking.....

[miz3]

Is WOPE a pagan practice?

The decisive answer to your question is a great big NO .

[CoAspen]

Pagans used candles in their ceremonies also. Any true follower of Christ would have notheing todo with such a practise.

[M. T. Cross]

Pagans used candles in their ceremonies also. Any true follower of Christ would have notheing todo with such a practise.

We pray too. (gasp)

[CoAspen]

If pagans pray, then christians shouldn't! There I said it!

[miz3]

This line of attack on women [has been tried] before. It failed then and it will fail this time also.

There is no Biblical evidence that supports [the OP] view.

[M. T. Cross]

If pagans pray, then christians shouldn't! There I said it!

We also eat, sleep, pay taxes, fall in love, have children, stress over those children, seek truth and light, dream, laugh, cry, get sick and eventually die and wonder what happens after that.

It just gets crazy doesn't it!

[Overaged]

Is WOPE a pagan practice?

I believe the practice of female priests and elders originated among the pagan religions. In Acts 19:22-36 we see how the Ephesians honored and revered the false god of Diana, a female god, even if just for money.

What you "believe" and what the Bible says, are in fact, two different and diametrically opposed things.

This Scripture passage you quote says absolutely nothing about female "priests and elders." In Acts 19; Diana is described several times as a "goddess." And while the people of Ephesus worshipped the goddess Diana, it is plain to see the Bible makes a huge difference between church elders or priests, and the pagan Godess Diana. Ordained Elders and priests cannot be proven to originate from this or any other pagan source. It's just not there in the text, nor is it even implied.

The major point being addressed in this chapter of Acts was the craftsmen who were making silver idols of Diana "of the Ephesians" and Paul's preaching was undermining the commercial value of that business enterprise. There is absolutely no hint anywhere in the book of Acts that says the church got the idea to ordain women or elders from the Ephesians of Paul's day.

[Alchemy]

This line of attack on women [has been tried] before. It failed then and it will fail this time also.

There is no Biblical evidence that supports [the OP] view.

... start backing up your assertions with Scripture. I am not attacking anything or anyone, but my points have always stood strong on Biblical grounds.

* * *

[miz3]

Originally Posted By: miz3

This line of attack on women [has been tried] before. It failed then and it will fail this time also.

There is no Biblical evidence that supports [the OP] view.

... start backing up your assertions with Scripture. I am not attacking anything or anyone, but my points have always stood strong on Biblical grounds.

* * *

I guess you have forgotten our discussion before on Huldah and Deborah. These two magnificent ladies ruled over Israel just the same as Moses, Samuel, and the other Prophet/Rulers of Israel/Judah. Maybe you should refresh your memory of those discussions.

...I was stating that [these] views [were posted] before and it is "these views" ... that have failed to be Biblical Fact.

Misogyny is a terrible position to defend.

[jasd]

QR frame:

Though “pagan” stems from the Latin paganus – and means – villager, country dweller, or rustic - the OT Melchizedek, though King, connotes the idea pagan to us today. Yet, though pagan, he functioned as a Priestly antitype of Jesus Christ who will reign after the order of Melchizedek.

Seems that that order will include both men and women who are described in 1 Peter as a “Royal Priesthood”, and in Revelation 1 as Kings and Priests. Nowhere in these texts is the proscriptive found: “MONA – Men Only Need Apply.”

We can only infer from a correct reading of texts that women and men now constitute the Royal Priesthood and are made Kings and Priests, which leads to a conundrum – how is the conjunction (mebbe a compound?) “and” to be parsed?--does it imply that women will also be Kings?—or is it stating that only women will be Priests, and the men Kings? Well, might we then need also to parse “Royal Priesthood”?

Erratum: Jeraboam separated the tribe of Levi from their inheritance - Gd, for Gd had said that He was the inheritance of Levi. The tribe of Levi was to partake of the offerings of Israel; instead, Jeraboam gave such 'partakings' to those not of the tribe of Levi. Therefore it was, that the House of Jeraboam was cursed, as was Ephratah/Ephraim. However, the Northern House of Ephraim means 'bearing fruit'. Is there an parallel to the words of Jesus Christ?--"Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof." (Mt 21:43)

[Alchemy]

* * *

"These views" of the pagan nature of WOPE stand strong on history and the Bible. So, I'm not sure what you are talking about, miz3.

The two female examples you mentioned don't effect any change on those positions.

[miz3]

"These views" of the pagan nature of WOPE stand strong on history and the Bible. So, I'm not sure what you are talking about, miz3.

The two female examples you mentioned don't effect any change on those positions.

1. We are still waiting for these "strong" facts in history and also in the Bible.

2. Deborah and Huldah were the Spiritual Leaders of Israel/Judah and were chosen by God to rule over all the men. Even the male kings were subject to Huldah's Authority. These two Biblical examples put your false assertion on the junk heap.

[Overaged]

2. Deborah and Huldah were the Spiritual Leaders of Israel/Judah and were chosen by God to rule over all the men. Even the male kings were subject to Huldah's Authority. These two Biblical examples put your false assertion on the junk heap.

I would be interested to see references from the Bible that say Deborah and Huldah were "appointed to rule over all the men."