Joel Osteen

[Robert]

"Joel Osteen's sermons and writings are sometimes reproached for their use of the concepts of prosperity theology, or the prosperity gospel, a belief that wealth and power are rewards for pious Christians." [Wikipedia]

What are your thoughts?

[Stan]

This who often say that have never watched his stuff.

Check out this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=JuNMNjf4vbE#!

[Dr. Rich]

Oh, I have watched him many a time. As I also watch others like him. It all reminds me of Paul's warm fuzzy words of being saved by grace and one only needs faith, verses the sharp warnings that Jesus gave which caused many of those that were disciples of His, to leave Him.

Seldom have I heard a truthful sermon from using the words of Jesus, as people just don't want to hear those words because so few will actually be on the narrow road. They have a hard time with 'be ye perfect as your Father in Heaven is perfect', but enjoy 'Christ was the end of the Law'.

[Gibs]

If you ever hear a message by Joel that there is a message of being overcomers let ole Gibs know. It must be the thrust of the gospel preached if I will listen long. Please read these,

Re 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Re 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Re 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Re 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Re 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Re 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Re 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Re 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

1Jo 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

1Jo 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

I'm like the old song goes, If I Have to "I'll sail my ship alone".

1Jo 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

[Gerr]

After watching/listening to him a few times, I decided he's just another feel-good preacher in the same mold as the Crystal Cathedral preacher. I don't listen to him anymore.

[fccool]

Lol. I love the idea that for a preacher to be true, he can't be feel-good. He has to be a feel-terrible one.

The difference between fundamentalism and progressive Christianity is exactly that. One is self-punishing and self-limiting. The other attempts to self-improve by pointing to certain Biblical standards.

The environments usually says it all. If your church is a dimly light place with wooden pews, most likely you will not like a preacher like Joel Osteen.

[phkrause]

The environments usually says it all. If your church is a dimly light place with wooden pews, most likely you will not like a preacher like Joel Osteen.

Well I'm glad about that, because I've not seen any Adventist Churches like that. And I've been to quite a few, especially in NYC, but have been to visit a few of other denominations that I could hardly see.

[Robert]

Does God want us to prosper - to have wealth?

Jesus: "In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you."

No doubt in heaven we will have it made, but one small problem - we aren't in heaven.

Joel Osteen fails to realize that "all that is in the world...is not of the Father but is of the world." The world is under Lucifer's domain. Paul calls him "the god of this world". Everything, therefore, that goes to make up this worldly system politics, education, commerce, sports, etc. — is founded upon the principle of love of self, even though at times this principle may not be obvious.

If it's true that God blesses the pious with wealth then God is going against His own law. The "free market" [Capitalism] is not based on God's model of prosperity. God agape love is what brings peace and prosperity. Lucifer's love is based on self-seeking and self-importance.

In other words Joel Osteen's theology is heresy because Capitalism is the delivery system in order to gain wealth.

[Gibs]

Joel's messages are in the extreme liberalism and the masses love that. But is that the message the world needs? I say no! The world needs to be awakened not put to sleep with sweet lullabies.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gerr]

If it's true that God blesses the pious with wealth then God is going against His own law.

I don't know what law you are referring to that God would be violating if the obedient were to be blessed. While wealth can be acquired through chicanery, outright theft and exploitation, there are also certain principles/laws that would give one a very high probability of success if they were to be obeyed. If this were not true, then God's promises in Dt 28-30 and other places are all lies.

BTW,piety and obedience are not necessarily synonymous, and wealth in heaven's eyes does not necessarily equal wealth as the world measures wealth.

[phkrause]

I don't know what law you are referring to that God would be violating if the obedient were to be blessed. While wealth can be acquired through chicanery, outright theft and exploitation, there are also certain principles/laws that would give one a very high probability of success if they were to be obeyed. If this were not true, then God's promises in Dt 28-30 and other places are all lies.

BTW,piety and obedience are not necessarily synonymous, and wealth in heaven's eyes does not necessarily equal wealth as the world measures wealth.

Not only that but didn't Job prosper even more after going through a horrible ordeal? Not only did God gave him back everything that was taken from him, but he doubled it.

[Robert]

...you need to examine Dt 28:1,11 in the light of Matt 19:16-30

Dt 28:1 If you fully obey the LORD your God and carefully follow all his commands I give you today...11 The LORD will grant you abundant prosperity

Matt 19:16 “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”

17...if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.

20 The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept from my youth. What do I lack?” (In other words my law keeping is perfect!)

21 If you want to be perfect (in your law performance), go, sell what you have and give to the poor....

[BobRyan]

Jesus said "in this world you have trouble - be of good courage I have overcome the world".

Jesus said that a servant is not greater than his master and if the world despised and hated Christ (rather than showering Christ with wealth) -- so the world would do to His followers.

No one has any reason to believe that any of the 12 apostles walked off wealthy.

The NT Gospel is not a get rich quick scheme of any fashion.

James said that Christians should not show preference for the wealthy - since it is the wealthy that persecute and belittle the Christians. The implication being that the Christians of the NT age were not "known" for being wealthy.

This is not to say that God cannot bless the rich or has no work for them. But there is no "The saints will be blessed with prosperity and wealth" message under the NT "persecuted church" model.

There WAS such a promise under the OT "nation church" model - but not in the NT.

in Christ,

Bob

[Kountzer]

I shook Joel's hand once, at work. He gave me and some others a copy of his book. I gave it to my Wife. I don't know if I've ever sat down and listened to a whole sermon of his.

His church is not all that far away; in fact it is closer than my home sda church. They are at least a thousand miles apart in terms of beliefs and doctrine. Lots of people around me say they are members of his church.

[Robert]

Here's the ultimate problem with Joel's theology:

A poor man/woman never becomes wealthy and says to himself/herself "I must not be pious enough and therefore God doesn't love me!" And so he or she apostatizes (abandons Christ).

It's the same concept with the pre-tribulation folks: "I haven't been raptured before the time of trouble, hence, God has abandoned me - I'm lost!" And so they give up Christ.

It's the same problem with legalistic folks that believe they must keep the law in order to be saved. The time of trouble comes and they're still struggling with sin and so they say "I must be lost I'm still sinning (failing - not practicing) and therefore God doesn't love me. And so they give up Christ.

[Aliensanctuary]

The problem with becoming wealthy is that all that excess money comes from...someone else, a violation of one of the basic principles of the Kingdom of God. We are all servants and must not take advantage of others by charging them interest or by making a lot of money from them just to enrich ourselves. In the Kingdom of God, all that we need, food, clothing, and shelter, will be provided.

The Earth, we are told, will be inherited by the poor. The wealthy should enjoy their money and possessions in this life, because, they may not be participants in the next.