A Christian

[Naomi]

This has been around, but everytime I read it I find it has new meaning to me. Is it true? Probably not ....

Several years ago, a preacher from out-of-state accepted a call to a church in Houston , Texas . Some weeks after he arrived, he had an occasion to ride the bus from his home to the downtown area. When he sat down, he discovered that the driver had accidentally given him a quarter too much change.. As he considered what to do, he thought to himself, 'You'd better give the quarter back. It would be wrong to keep it.' Then he thought, 'Oh, forget it, it's only a quarter. Who would worry about this little amount? Anyway, the bus company gets too much fare; they will never miss it. Accept it as a 'gift from God' and keep quiet.'

When his stop came, he paused momentarily at the door, and then he handed the quarter to the driver and said, 'Here, you gave me too much change ..'

The driver, with a smile, replied, 'Aren't you the new preacher in town?'

'Yes' he replied.

'Well, I have been thinking a lot lately about going somewhere to worship. I just wanted to see what you would do if I gave you too much change. I'll see you at church on Sunday.'

When the preacher stepped off of the bus, he literally grabbed the nearest light pole, held on, and said, 'Oh God, I almost sold your Son for a quarter.'

Our lives are the only Bible some people will ever read. This is a really scary example of how much people watch us as Christians, and will put us to the test! Always be on guard -- and remember -- You carry the name of Christ on your shoulders when you call yourself 'Christian.'

Watch your thoughts; they become words.

Watch your words; they become actions.

Watch your actions; they become habits..

Watch your habits; they become character.

Watch your character; it becomes your destiny.

[Neil D]

Quote:

and remember -- You carry the name of Christ on your shoulders when you call yourself 'Christian.'

I am sorry, Naomi...to carry this burden of watching the behavior of others.....Why would I desire to watch others? IOWs, as a Christian, why would I want to judge others actions? There are many other forces in nature and this life that influence mine and other's behavior...for good or for ill.

Better still, than to judge the action of others, and thus thier character, to give charity, tolerance, and wisdom when asked. Your influence, if that is what you seek, will go further...

[Liz]

Quote:

and remember -- You carry the name of Christ on your shoulders when you call yourself 'Christian.'

I am sorry, Naomi...to carry this burden of watching the behavior of others.....Why would I desire to watch others? IOWs, as a Christian, why would I want to judge others actions? There are many other forces in nature and this life that influence mine and other's behavior...for good or for ill.

Better still, than to judge the action of others, and thus thier character, to give charity, tolerance, and wisdom when asked. Your influence, if that is what you seek, will go further...

It's interesting that you saw that sentence and came to your conclusion. When I read it I applied it to my life, I needed to make sure that "I" was living and doing everything according to my beliefs and calling myself a Christian. Certainly not looking at others. By the way, this was just an observation, I find it fascinating when two people can read the same words, yet interpret them differently.

[Neil D]

I am morbidly fascinated with the Adventist culture in which we judge behavior as an insight into the character of the man [or woman]. Our culture is so heavily influenced by this, that radical teachings of our Lord in which forgiveness, mercy, and hope truely have no place except as a bandage...when these principles are life-giving modalities that build our characters directly. Once experienced, and then pondered upon and experimented with, more experiences will influence others... in a positive light.

Ever have cookies and tea with a friend and just listen to his story? By your mercy, you may have just moved the world.

[Naomi]

it's interesting that you saw that sentence and came to your conclusion. When I read it I applied it to my life, I needed to make sure that "I" was living and doing everything according to my beliefs and calling myself a Christian. Certainly not looking at others. By the way, this was just an observation, I find it fascinating when two people can read the same words, yet interpret them differently.

Liz, we seem to have read it andd came to the same conclusion. And, it is fascinaating that we can read the same words and come to different conclusions.

[phkrause]

This is exactly what Christ taught and Paul wrote that we should not be a stumbling block to our fellow brothers and sisters, no matter who they are.

[Naomi]

I am morbidly fascinated with the Adventist culture in which we judge behavior as an insight into the character of the man [or woman]. Our culture is so heavily influenced by this, that radical teachings of our Lord in which forgiveness, mercy, and hope truely have no place except as a bandage...when these principles are life-giving modalities that build our characters directly. Once experienced, and then pondered upon and experimented with, more experiences will influence others... in a positive light.

Ever have cookies and tea with a friend and just listen to his story? By your mercy, you may have just moved the world.

I am sorry Neil that this has offended you but after reading your post three times I am still unclear if it was an attack on Adventist (BTW it was written by a different denomination), or an attack on the fact that what we do does influence how others view christians.

Perhaps you are correct in that our behaviour should NOT in any way be a reflection on our character.

In answer to your question; Yes, many times I have perhaps not had cookies and coffee with a friend, but have sit with them and listened to their stories. Was there a reason for your questioin???

[phkrause]

Great point Naomi.

[doug yowell]

And why is this cause for fascination? Not only Adventist but every single culture in the universe judges character by behavior. What's the alternative? Jesus Himself counseled us to "judge righteous judgment". He also added that "a good tree is known by the fruit it produces." And' date='"be careful to maintain good works for these things are good and profitable to men." And the world's 2nd wisest man once commented that, "Even a child is known by it's doings..."

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Our culture is so heavily influenced by this, that radical teachings of our Lord in which forgiveness, mercy, and hope truely have no place except as a bandage...

Or, as is just as common, the desire to be seen as merciful and forgiving gives the impression that identifying evil as evil is evil and that evil as evil is really misunderstood good.

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when these principles are life-giving modalities that build our characters directly. Once experienced, and then pondered upon and experimented with, more experiences will influence others... in a positive light.

Naomi's story focused on the implications of honesty. The bus driver identified the act as a revelation of the character of the pastor.Do you suppose that the driver would have been willing to tell everyone that the pastor was a man of integrity has the pastor kept the oversight? Behavior reveals character it doesn't build it.

Quote:

Ever have cookies and tea with a friend and just listen to his story? By your mercy, you may have just moved the world. [/quote']FDR, Winston Churchill, and Joseph Stalin sat down for coffee (not sure about the tea and cookies)together. Both later discovered that Uncle Joe was a charming and skillful liar who had just moved the world.

[Naomi]

[Neil D]

I am sorry Neil that this has offended you but after reading your post three times I am still unclear if it was an attack on Adventist (BTW it was written by a different denomination), or an attack on the fact that what we do does influence how others view christians.

Perhaps you are correct in that our behaviour should NOT in any way be a reflection on our character.

Naomi-

Let's see....Offended, no...but the fascination of judging others, even ourselves and labeling everyone and ourselves.

Much to the detriment of growing out of our lables....Yeah, I see problems within our culture over this ability to judge.

When will we support one another and allow others to grow? Instead, we place one another, even ourselves into a box and label it as to it's contents...and most men [and women] that I have met are never ...boxed/labeled exclusively....Even a reformed thief can grow into something other than a thief....'Once a thief always a thief' is simply just not true. People change...Women, who were once companions to males, have babies, and women change thier attitudes...once the children grow up, they change again into grandmothers.....Young men are agressive and out to change the world, and when they become fathers, thier focus changes to thier supporting thier familys, and then they become grandfathers, and a bit more mellow...People don't need to be judged...they need to be allowed to change to what they see as better.....

I guess what is offensive to me is the pride that "I am not like this man!"....I have yet to find someone who is a liar to lie continuously through out his life....No, there are times that telling the truth is profitable, even in a liar's eyes. That is what the sin of pride and judging others will do to one...colors another's thinking...Judging supports the fears of rejection, of superiority, of selfish rightness [ie, "I am more right than you."]

Hopefully, I have cause a bit of thinking here....And our thinking should be on mercy, hope, and forgiveness....

Now, another question, Naomi...I responded to Liz's post.,,and the question was for Liz...However, I hope that in the context of forgiveness, person A may change thier opinion of person B because of mercy working on person B....

I wrote the response to Liz and to you...Not Neil...Sorry, if I interupted a conversation between you and him....

[Naomi]

Neil, You can twist and turn any way you wish.

This is a rather straight forward story. If you feel good about making it judgemental, and/or about labeling people than knock yourself out!

Yes, people do change. That should be a non-issue in this discussion. Nothing different was indicated.

If we don't search ourselves, call it judging ourselves if you wish, how do we ever grow? Or, perhaps there are those among us who have reached he point of perfection when self analysis or further growth is necessary.

Now, unless you wish to share what your REAL issue is with me or the simple post, I have said my last word on the subject.

[Neil D]

And why is this cause for fascination? Not only Adventist but every single culture in the universe judges character by behavior. What's the alternative? Jesus Himself counseled us to "judge righteous judgment". He also added that "a good tree is known by the fruit it produces." And,"be careful to maintain good works for these things are good and profitable to men." And the world's 2nd wisest man once commented that, "Even a child is known by it's doings...

[Naomi]

Oh, and excuse and forgive me ... I just realized that I addressed Neil and not Hamilton-Beach. So Hamilton-Beach, please allow me to include in this discussion.

[Neil D]

This is a rather straight forward story. If you feel good about making it judgemental, and/or about labeling people than knock yourself out!

[Naomi]

Originally Posted By: Naomi

This is a rather straight forward story. If you feel good about making it judgemental, and/or about labeling people than knock yourself out!

Let me get this straight...I am saying that we need to be supportive of people when they made growth decisions, and you saying that I need to be more judgemental when they make those decisions....?

Quote:

If we don't search ourselves, call it judging ourselves if you wish, how do we ever grow? Or, perhaps there are those among us who have reached he point of perfection when self analysis or further growth is necessary.

Never said that we don't search ourselves. But when we identify a behavior we don't like, do we condemn ourselves as evil or do we forgive ourselves and change? We need to bring out more mercy thinking and allow others to change too.

Granted, when a person is robbing you, and threaten your life, you are more than willing to support that person's decisions to change his mind about robbing and threatening you... you would probably pray for an instant conversion...

OK HB have it your way ... this was a seriously judgemental, story that had it focus on bad behavior; that we don't like. A story that left no room for anyone to change, no mercy thinking. Perhaps it really was written for the only reason to put people into little boxes and used strong packing tape to be sure they never, ever got out. I agree with you!! Okay!

Now what is your REAL issue?

[Woody]

Quote:

I am sorry Neil that this has offended you

I'm with you Naomi - not sure why Neil would be offended.

[olger]

Story good.

Neil grumpy.

[cricket]

I like this story. It reminds me of this one:

1 Corinthians 10

23 All things are lawful, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful, but not all things edify. 24 Let no one seek his own good, but that of his neighbor. 25 Eat anything that is sold in the meat market without asking questions for conscience’ sake; 26 FOR THE EARTH IS THE LORD’S, AND ALL IT CONTAINS. 27 If one of the unbelievers invites you and you want to go, eat anything that is set before you without asking questions for conscience’ sake. 28 But if anyone says to you, “This is meat sacrificed to idols,” do not eat it, for the sake of the one who informed you,and for conscience’ sake; 29 I mean not your own conscience, but the other man’s; for why is my freedom judged by another’s conscience? 30 If I partake with thankfulness, why am I slandered concerning that for which I give thanks?

31 Whether, then, you eat or drink or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God. 32 Give no offense either to Jews or to Greeks or to the church of God; 33 just as I also please all men in all things, not seeking my own profit but the profit of the many, so that they may be saved.

[Liz]

Hi Cricket!! Long time no see, I hope you are doing well.

[GoLions]

About six months ago or so, I was in Battle Creek Michigan, the tabernacle church had some kind of a special service. Just now thinking about it, I remember it was the anniversary of the SDA name (I think). Any way, after the special service, everybody was invited to the grave site where Ellen White is buried. I believe that some one there was getting a grave stone updated or some such thing. It was raining pretty good that evening. I know this sounds kind of scatter brained. I am doing this to give you an idea of my memory. Ohh, now I remember, it was the grave site of the women that started women's ministry in the SDA. They brought someone from the general conference, to speak.

What does this have to do with this topic??? The lady repeated the same story, only it had everything to do with the history of the SDA. I could be wrong, but it sure sounded like it was a documented, true story. I maybe wrong, but for sure that is what I remember best of the entire day. That and singing great advent songs around the graves of the White family (in the rain).

My wife and kids who are not big fans of history or rain stayed in the car for that part.