five have fallen, one is, and one is yet to come and there is also the

[skyblue888]

1) Egypt

2) Assyria

3) Babylon

4) Medo-Persia

5) Greece

is

6) Pagan Rome

is not, continue a short time

7) Papal Rome

eight, is of the seven

8) America

BoWing (from another forum)

____________________

More like:

1) Babylon

2) Medo Persia

3) Greece

4) Pagan Rome

5) PaPal Rome (point of reference of Rev.17:3; deadly wound in 1798)

6) Atheistic France (one that is after 1798)

7) Apostate Protestantism (one that is to come when church and state unite; image of the beast)

8) Papal Rome... the one which is of the seven who was before 1798, is not after 1798 because of the deadly wound) and is again when the wound is healed as Apostate Protestantism shall revive the beast by enforcing Sunday and by giving power and authority to her.

sky

[skyblue888]

Interesting! Now do we play "rock/paper/scissors " to decide which list is correct? How can we REALLY know for sure? And does it really matter?

TW

_______________

TW, verse 3 of Rev.17 gives us the point of reference for the five that have fallen, the one that is, and the one that is yet to come. John was taken in the Spirit into the wilderness where he saw the papal power wounded to death in 1798. From there, the five that have fallen are Papal Rome in 1798, Pagan Rome in 476 A.D. and then Greece, Medo Persia, and Babylon.

Daniel 2 does not mention Egypt or Assyria. Babylon is the head of gold of the statue.

So the point of reference is clearly 1798.

The beast that came out of the bottomless pit in 1798 was Atheistic France which inflicted a deadly wound to the papacy.

Then the one that is yet to come after that is Apostate Protestantism. Apostate Protestantism does not have a kingdom yet but will receive a kingdom when it shall receive the power of the State to enforce Sunday observance. It will make an image to the papacy and then will give its kingdom to the papacy and her deadly wound will be healed and that is how the papal power, which is one of the seven, will finally regain her lost supremacy. She is the eighth which WAS before 1798, IS NOT after 1798 because of the deadly wound and IS AGAIN when the wound is healed.

i believe what I have said is in harmony with the order of last day events as portrayed in Rev.13 to 17, also in harmony with the last chapters of The Great Controversy.

Does not the Lord want us to have the right understanding of these things?

sky

[skyblue888]

Sure, no doubt he wanted to give us an idea of what was ahead or he wouldn't have had Daniel and John write about it. But the fact remains: Bowing will no doubt have just as much evidence and reason to support his "list", also from the Bible. I've read comments on this forum about this subject for the past two years. There's almost as many "theories" as there are people posting. Let's face it: there is a lot of "wiggle" room!

TW

_______________

When one takes Rev.17:3 as the point of reference for the five that have fallen, given by the revelator himself, everything falls into place. It is not a human assumption or speculation but a revealed fact. 1798 is the revealed point of reference.

In all due respect BoWing took John's own day as the point of reference for the 5 that have fallen. I have no way of knowing if he was aware of that. He may have been quoting from someone. I know that Uriah Smith took John's own day as the point of reference but he obviously was wrong on that.

If we take John's own day as the point of reference we have to include Egypt and Assyria but these two are not mentioned in the visions of the prophet Daniel. Now let us see what we have if we take John's own day as the point of reference.

5 have fallen:

1) Greece

2) Medo Persia

3) Babylon

4) Egypt

5) Assyria

One is:

Pagan Rome

And three are yet to come

Papal Rome

Atheistic France

Apostate Protestantism when it shall reveive a kingdom.

But the prophecy says that after the one that is, one is yet to come, not three!

But if we take Rev.17:3 as the revealed point of reference, which is 1798, we now have:

5 have fallen

1) Papal Rome (fallen in 1798)

2) Pagan Rome

3) Greece

4) Medo-Persia

5) Babylon the head of gold

One is:

Atheistic France After 1798)

One is yet to come:

Apostate Protestantism

And then there is the eighth which is one of the seven who was, is not, and yet is again and that is the Papal power who before 1798 was, after 1798 is not, and yet is again when the wound is healed.

sky