the church

[skyblue888]

A famous quote of Ellen White, found in numerous books of hers, and often used to make people obey the rules of the church, was lifted from The Great Teacher, by John Harris. It says,

"Enfeebled and defective as it may appear, the church is the one object upon which God bestows in a special sense His supreme regard." (See Acts of the Apostles, p. 12.)

JM from another forum

___________

This quote may have been wrongly used. It is not talking about the establishment but about faithful souls.

One statement explains another. "The church is God's fortress, His city of refuge, which He holds in a revolted world." A.A.11.

"The soul that is yielded to Christ becomes God's fortress which He holds in a revolted world and He intends that no authority shall be known in it but His own." D.A.324.

"From the beginning, faithful souls have constituted the church on earth." A.A.11.

"The church of Christ, every individual disciple of the Master is heaven's appointed channel for the revelation of God to man." M.B.40.

So what is the church?

Of course there is the official church with a name and organization but only those within her ranks who are sealed with the Holy Spirit through the faith that lays right hold upon the merits of a crucified and risen Saviour are God's fortress which He holds in a revolted world. These alone constitute the church on earth and God intends that no authority shall be known in the soul but His own.

Right?

sky

[Gibs]

The most of that number are no doubt the most in the least compromised denominational church and very few in some others, percentage wise. Here's another quote from EGW to add to what Sky has posted since most here are SDA's.

God has His faithful witnesses who are not attempting to do that which Christ has pronounced impossible--that is, seeking to serve God and mammon at the same time. They are burning and shining lights amid the moral darkness of the world, and amid the gross darkness that covers the people like the pall of death. The members of the church of Christ are individually to be controlled by the Holy Spirit, in order that they may not have a changeable, fluctuating experience. They are to be rooted and grounded in the truth. {YRP 83.1}

When the joy of the saving power of Christ's righteousness is rightly understood by experimental knowledge, there will be vital interest in the church, there will be those who will teach transgressors God's ways, and sinners will be converted to the truth as it is in Jesus. It is the professors of religion that need converting; for Satan has brought his deceptions to bear upon their souls. {YRP 83.2}

The soul that is brought into personal contact with Christ becomes a holy temple unto the Lord; for Jesus is made unto the believer wisdom, righteousness, sanctification, and redemption. He who has fully surrendered to God has a consciousness of Christ's saving presence. He is a possessor of spiritual patience, and has the rest of soul that comes from learning of Him who is meek and lowly of heart. Trusting in Jesus to be his efficiency and righteousness, his soul is filled with a pleasant contentment. {YRP 83.3}

What is the joy of the Christian? It is the result of the consciousness of the presence of Christ. What is the love of the Christian? It is the reflection of the love of Christ. It is the effect of the operation of the Holy Spirit. Looking to the cross of Calvary, we see Jesus dying for the sins of the world, in order that by His death, life and immortality might be brought to light in behalf of the contrite soul. Jesus is all in all, and without Him we can do nothing. Without Christ, spiritual life would be impossible.--Review and Herald, Dec. 4, 1894. {YRP 83.4}

The times are very serious indeed and all should be aware of it. There is not much preparation time now. What us old timers took years to learn many will need to learn in a few short months.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[skyblue888]

Thanks for these quotes Gibs...

sky

[Gibs]

It is a good post topic, all need to consider and it is good you started it.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gibs]

When we are truly Christ's, which of course we must be, don't we find that we want to do all we can to please Him as this has become the hearts disire. To do everything we do and think even, we want to be to His honor and Glory and we are never satisfied we have done enough. We continue to want to do more.

Is not this the way of true love? He is the same towards us we know and are assured.

Php 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gibs]

His church is made up of the fully consecrated ones. He wants all of us, not a part won't do.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Dr. Rich]

His church is made up of the fully consecrated ones. He wants all of us, not a part won't do.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

God does NOT have a church--He has a Kingdom of Heaven (See Matt. 25:1-13)

[Johnnboy]

The statements that you, Sky and Gibs, have quoted from the Spirit of Prophecy, and commented on, accurately define what the "true church" really is. God has made provision for everyone to join His church. He wants everyone in it, but sadly, "few there be that find it."

Jesus actually said,

--"I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." Matthew 16:18

[Woody]

Jesus invites ALL to come. His invitation is not a "Narrow" one. Our focus should be on inviting all. It should not be focusing on being a "Narrow" group of people. That will just turn away those who might have been invited.

[Woody]

If there were two ministries -

One called "The Narrow Way"

And one called "Open Arms"

Which one might most people be attracted to?

[Gibs]

They already have Woody, it's called the broad and hilarious road to destruction.

In this world of rebellion of course the only way will be shunned, it don't suit the carnal natures of men and women of today. Self stands in the way and refuses to be crucified. And that little item must die if we are to live, that is eternally.

Hey, and Johnnboy thanks for standing in there.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[skyblue888]

The most of that number are no doubt the most in the least compromised denominational church and very few in some others, percentage wise. Here's another quote from EGW to add to what Sky has posted since most here are SDA's.

God has His faithful witnesses who are not attempting to do that which Christ has pronounced impossible--that is, seeking to serve God and mammon at the same time. They are burning and shining lights amid the moral darkness of the world, and amid the gross darkness that covers the people like the pall of death. The members of the church of Christ are individually to be controlled by the Holy Spirit, in order that they may not have a changeable, fluctuating experience. They are to be rooted and grounded in the truth. {YRP 83.1}

When the joy of the saving power of Christ's righteousness is rightly understood by experimental knowledge, there will be vital interest in the church, there will be those who will teach transgressors God's ways, and sinners will be converted to the truth as it is in Jesus. It is the professors of religion that need converting; for Satan has brought his deceptions to bear upon their souls. {YRP 83.2}

The soul that is brought into personal contact with Christ becomes a holy temple unto the Lord; for Jesus is made unto the believer wisdom, righteousness, sanctification, and redemption. He who has fully surrendered to God has a consciousness of Christ's saving presence. He is a possessor of spiritual patience, and has the rest of soul that comes from learning of Him who is meek and lowly of heart. Trusting in Jesus to be his efficiency and righteousness, his soul is filled with a pleasant contentment. {YRP 83.3}

What is the joy of the Christian? It is the result of the consciousness of the presence of Christ. What is the love of the Christian? It is the reflection of the love of Christ. It is the effect of the operation of the Holy Spirit. Looking to the cross of Calvary, we see Jesus dying for the sins of the world, in order that by His death, life and immortality might be brought to light in behalf of the contrite soul. Jesus is all in all, and without Him we can do nothing. Without Christ, spiritual life would be impossible.--Review and Herald, Dec. 4, 1894. {YRP 83.4}

The times are very serious indeed and all should be aware of it. There is not much preparation time now. What us old timers took years to learn many will need to learn in a few short months.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Great quotes Gibs. Let me add a few that I am sure you will agree shed precious light on this topic:

"The gold tried in the fire is FAITH that WORKS by LOVE. Only this can bring us into harmony with God. We may be active, we may do much work; but WITHOUT LOVE, SUCH LOVE AS DWELT IN THE HEART OF CHRIST, we can never be numbered with the family of Heaven." C.O.L.158.

Is this not the straight testimony from the faithful Witness?

What was the measure of that LOVE that dwelt in the heart of Christ:

"When God gave His Son to our world, he endowed human beings with imperishable riches--riches compared with which the treasured wealth of man since the world began is nothingness. Christ came to the earth and stood before the children of men with the HOARDED LOVE OF ETERNITY, and this is the TREASURE that, through our connection with Him, we are to receive, reveal, and to impart." Ministry of Healing,37.

The hoarded love of eternity! Who can fathom the hoarded love of eternity? yet this is the TREASURE (whole heavenly treasure) that, through our connection with Christ, we are to receive, to reveal, and to impart!

And how do we connect with Christ?

"God will accept everyone that comes to Him TRUSTING WHOLLY in the MERITS of a crucified Saviour. LOVE springs up in the heart. There may be no ecstasy of feeling, but there is an abiding, peaceful trust." 1 S.M.354.

"We shall come in repentance and contrition, with a despairing sense of our own finite weakness and learn that we must DAILY APPLY to the MERITS of the blood of Christ that they may become VESSELS FIT for the Master's use." Faith & Works,86.

Thank God for His unspeakable Gift through the merits of a crucified and risen Saviour.

sky

[Woody]

They already have Woody, it's called the broad and hilarious road to destruction.

In this world of rebellion of course the only way will be shunned, it don't suit the carnal natures of men and women of today. Self stands in the way and refuses to be crucified. And that little item must die if we are to live, that is eternally.

Hey, and Johnnboy thanks for standing in there.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

"Welcome with open arms fellow believers who don’t see things the way you do.

And don’t jump all over them every time they do or say something you don’t agree with

– even when it seems that they are strong on opinions but weak in the faith department.

Remember, they have their own history to deal with. Treat them gently." Romans 14.1: The Message

[Gibs]

Ah Woody, no offense meant to anyone but what I have noticed is the ones who get jumped on the most are the ones not standing in for the new liberal theology that has come into the church. I can not and will not attempt to make the way broad Jesus said was narrow, as it is just narrow but He did make it easy is what I want to show.

It is offense to tell me that it is "works" and it is not works to surrender all of self and be dead to that carnal old man or woman we once were. It is a matter of giving ourselves over to him and His molding completely. When the message is made too smooth the way it needs be is left out and I only try to correct that.

What I see is when we have become "legalists" we have went too far that a way, and when we have become "liberalists" we have gone too far that a way. As far as I am concerned, "conservative" does not apply here. That narrow way Jesus speaks of is between "leagalism" and "liberalism". But really I find it not hard at all to not get in either "ditch".

There needs to be a "squaring" up of the "building" and it wouldn't hurt none at all.

Far more consecration is needed.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

No disrespect Gibs but you are swaying way off the purpose of what I am saying. Jesus invited all. The broad way. The "Open Arms" way. The issue I brought up was to let people know that we welcome all. The open arms approach. Yes, we have a "narrow" teaching. But with an open arms and loving approach. Or that SHOULD be what we have.

We should not be advertizing that people can only come to us if they match our idea of a narrow life. We should be advertizing the open arms approach.

Jesus always advocated the 'come as you are' - approach and I think we should also.

[CoAspen]

[Gibs]

Yes Woody, Jesus welcomes all who will come and follow Him there is absolutely no doubt. What I want to dispell is the fact that so many are seeing the way to salvation to include them as they are without any change in lifestyle and just thinking they are saved because they have come to believe. Yes I believed a long time before I was converted and born again. But it was taught in those days a death must be of self, the hardest thing for most to do because of pride.

I see the churches are all taken over by such a liberality that no change is necessary. All are saved, so let's all be very happy and believe it. Now the commandments are not important anymore, they been done away with, no longer under that old law impossible to keep by men and women still of the world.

But, soon as you are not any longer of the world and that Royal Law is in your heart, it has become your pleasure to do them and it is your way now as well as His. It is no longer an imposibility to keep each and every one.

Men have changed it around to being saved their way and it won't work, His is the only way there ever was and will be. There is no other way Hosea.

So, pushing the true fact all must be overcomers is the theme of my witness because I see it as the most important subject in all of Christendom today. I saw this great falling into a saved in sin theology in the Sunday churches long before it came into Adventism. But now SDAdventism fights to uphold it as hard as any of them.

As a matter of fact I'm seeing more and more discenting ministries popping up out of Adventism than is of Adventism. There is few anymore in the ranks of Adventism who are still in the battle with me anymore. But am I disappointed? No, as I could see it coming. But I'm looking for the latter rain and the great witness of the 144,000 to break some ground among the true of heart. There is true ones of heart in all the denominational churches yet, hopefully more in SDAdventism than any.

Popular? You bet not! But I always knew I wasn't ever to win a popularity contest and never cared to. I do love true fellowship, they are my true Brothers and Sisters.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Dr. Rich]

Good post Gibs--and yes, truth is not very popular!

[Woody]

Yes. One has to be very careful - even in our own churches. There are some in our churches who don't even believe in scriptures as our guide.

[Naomi]

Yes. One has to be very careful - even in our own churches. There are some in our churches who don't even believe in scriptures as our guide.

Woody, you know I usually try to error on the side of being politically correct, but within my church ... NO I will not be careful concerning using the scriptures as our guide. If they are used correctly, that is.

OOPS .. sorry if I walked on toes, but truth is truth and the Bible is our truth.

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Woody

Yes. One has to be very careful - even in our own churches. There are some in our churches who don't even believe in scriptures as our guide.

Woody, you know I usually try to error on the side of being politically correct, but within my church ... NO I will not be careful concerning using the scriptures as our guide. If they are used correctly, that is.

OOPS .. sorry if I walked on toes, but truth is truth and the Bible is our truth.

Amen Sister. Amen.