Begging for Money

[Woody]

.

[Stan]

Yes, all they have to do is close their eyes, click their heals together, and all the operation expenses will get paid. Same thing with forums like this.

[Woody]

For full disclosure - I posted this from an Adventist Pastor's Facebook page. I figured it might get a variety of thoughts.

Enjoy -

[Woody]

That being said - Let me say that I agree with Stan.

I try to be "fair and balanced" with my posts. So, just because I post something - does not necessarily mean I agree with the content. But it can serve as a good springboard for discussion.

So, back to the discussion.

But first let me say that ideally - if we are truly in tune with God - our church should NOT have to beg. But the money would be flowing in.

[phkrause]

That being said - Let me say that I agree with Stan.

I try to be "fair and balanced" with my posts. So, just because I post something - does not necessarily mean I agree with the content. But it can serve as a good springboard for discussion.

So, back to the discussion.

But first let me say that ideally - if we are truly in tune with God - our church should NOT have to beg. But the money would be flowing in.

I agree Woody. I remember many years ago when ingathering time came around, must of course, I include myself in this group, didn't want to go. The Pastor told me that EGW said that if the church members gave that there would be no need for ingathering. And I agree with Stan also, I see many churches struggle to keep up with bills, let alone try to do community service, with programs, etc.

[Tom Wetmore]

Reminds me of the George Muller story. This quote from him states the fundamental concept of the charity that continues today:

Quote:

the provision comes by prayer and faith without anyone being asked, whereby it might be seen that God is faithful and hears prayer still.

He never asked people for help, only praying for God's providence to meet the needs of his orphanage. The George Muller Charitable Trust does not solicit donations.

[Neil D]

What constitutes as "begging"? Does advertising? Keeping a name before the people to remind them of the work that they do doesn't seem to be begging....or does it?

[Naomi]

I agree Woody. I remember many years ago when ingathering time came around, must of course, I include myself in this group, didn't want to go. The Pastor told me that EGW said that if the church members gave that there would be no need for ingathering. And I agree with Stan also, I see many churches struggle to keep up with bills, let alone try to do community service, with programs, etc.

Unfortunately, all too many of us have money for expensive things to support their life style (and I love nice things)! However, the tendency is to expect the bills at church or other organizations in which they partake to 'just be there' Little old ladies paying tithe on their $1000+- Social Security checks (or whatever the income of the poor in many countries) cannot support lovely churches, camps, etc. Everyone cannot afford to pay the same, but if everyone contributes what they reasonably can it will be enough

Begging ... whatever ... if we use the facilities then we should not have to be asked to help support same. And, that goes for our communities, as well as churches, and other organizations.

[Dr. Rich]

You of little faith, so goes the words of God, that He will provide. Our church ministry for over 15 years has NEVER asked for money and the LORD GOD has always provided for us! We all have our own work besides the church ministry, but we have truely found that God will and does provide.

[CoAspen]

Erroneous quote........"Love of money is....."

Interesting how leaving out one essential word can change the whole meaning of a conversation/question!

[Woody]

Erroneous quote........"Love of money is....."

Interesting how leaving out one essential word can change the whole meaning of a conversation/question!

Great. I was wondering who would catch that.

You get the prize CoA.

However - it is not an erroneous quote. It is a question that starts off "if".

[CoAspen]

Then the question is based on a false premise! Money is not the root of all evil nor is love. When both are put together and in context, only then do we get the true meaning of the statement. The question as stated takes people down the wrong road. I do understand what was being atempted. Just a quibble!!!

[LifeHiscost]

Then the question is based on a false premise! Money is not the root of all evil nor is love. When both are put together and in context, only then do we get the true meaning of the statement. The question as stated takes people down the wrong road. I do understand what was being atempted. Just a quibble!!!

I surmise there is a little pride involved when one feels the need to ask. Perhaps that is something that needs to be overcome before the fullness of the promised receiving. George Muller's

faith may have been great, but none will ever know what might have been accomplished had he followed the Lord's advice.

"“Don’t waste what is holy on people who are unholy. Don’t throw your pearls to pigs! They will trample the pearls, then turn and attack you.

“Keep on asking, and you will receive what you ask for. Keep on seeking, and you will find. Keep on knocking, and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives. Everyone who seeks, finds. And to everyone who knocks, the door will be opened."Matthew 7:6-8 NLT

That little nugget about the pigs may stop a lot of people who would normally receive more than they give God credit for His willingness to give.

" “Then he who had received the one talent came and said, ‘Lord, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you have not sown, and gathering where you have not scattered seed. And I was afraid, and went and hid your talent in the ground. Look, there you have what is yours.’

“But his lord answered and said to him, ‘You wicked and lazy servant, you knew that I reap where I have not sown, and gather where I have not scattered seed. So you ought to have deposited my money with the bankers, and at my coming I would have received back my own with interest. Therefore take the talent from him, and give it to him who has ten talents.

‘For to everyone who has, more will be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away. And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’" Matt 25:24-30 NKJV

God blesses!

[Woody]

Then the question is based on a false premise! Money is not the root of all evil nor is love. When both are put together and in context, only then do we get the true meaning of the statement. The question as stated takes people down the wrong road. I do understand what was being atempted. Just a quibble!!!

Well - I do believe that there are some who believe that money if the root of all evil. So, if they do believe that - what road does that take them?

[CoAspen]

I would suspect unhappiness because of their focus. Maybe an indication of the focus of ones life. More about the negatives of life rather than the positive. Don't know how money can be seen as inherently evil. Since the context of the text and meaning is about what seperates one from God as in a replacent for Him, ie, money becomes a God, it is a long stretch to see an enherant evil. The text could have any other item inputed there as well.

The Bible has great common sense themes and guidlines to life that people often distort and twist to suit their own desires, references, weakness, etc. Organized religion takes a beating for just reason, distorting of Gods message to mankind. That is the greater evil of His followers.

[phkrause]

I would suspect unhappiness because of their focus. Maybe an indication of the focus of ones life. More about the negatives of life rather than the positive. Don't know how money can be seen as inherently evil. Since the context of the text and meaning is about what seperates one from God as in a replacent for Him, ie, money becomes a God, it is a long stretch to see an enherant evil. The text could have any other item inputed there as well.

The Bible has great common sense themes and guidlines to life that people often distort and twist to suit their own desires, references, weakness, etc. Organized religion takes a beating for just reason, distorting of Gods message to mankind. That is the greater evil of His followers.

[Gerr]

Great. I was wondering who would catch that.

You get the prize CoA.

However - it is not an erroneous quote. It is a question that starts off "if".

I don't believe the original has the definite article "the" in either.

1 Ti 6:10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. ESV

1 Ti 6:10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds‌sorts‌ of evils. NASB

1 Ti 6:10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils‌evil‌. NIV

1 Ti 6:10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils.

[Woody]

Good observation Gerry. Hadn't noticed that.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

" That is the greater evil of His followers."

It would be of interest to find the reference/s to any greater evil or even an evil of the disciples of Christ, beyond personal opinions or false accusations.

God blesses!

[Neil D]

Reminds me of the George Muller story. This quote from him states the fundamental concept of the charity that continues today:

Quote:

the provision comes by prayer and faith without anyone being asked, whereby it might be seen that God is faithful and hears prayer still.

He never asked people for help, only praying for God's providence to meet the needs of his orphanage. The George Muller Charitable Trust does not solicit donations.

IOWs, God's children are princes,...not beggars.

So, how does a prince or princess of the universe solict funds without appearing to beg?

Again, does advertising the need constitute begging? Is the method of 'word of mouth' the only method to prove God's leading/providence? How does the concept of funds coming into the coffers of a 'faith program' constitute God's leading?

Let's say the Adminstration of clubadventist decided to inquire of God and came to the conclusion that a school where directors of film was needed to 'get our Christian message out there', was needed. How would it get funds to get some people to teach filmography?

[bTW, this is not to say that ClubAdventist is doing such a thing, but rather an example for discussion purposes]

[CoAspen]

Quote:

" That is the greater evil of His followers."

It would be of interest to find the reference/s to any greater evil or even an evil of the disciples of Christ, beyond personal opinions or false accusations.

God blesses!

>>>>>>....distorting of Gods message to mankind. That is the greater evil of His followers.<<<<

Why was Christ on earth? Did not he tell people over and over that they did not know Him or God? Why were people in fear of Him? Why do people fear God today? We have ample answers from a couple of posters quite often on these forums. I work with individuals everyday that have the wrong and continue to see Christ/God misrepresented by those that claim to believe in Him. Anything that keeps us or others from seeing God as He really is, would be evil because it can lead to eternal death. Did Christ not come to seek and save or to condemn? Separation from God, where does that leave the person?

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

those that claim to believe in Him. Anything that keeps us or others from seeing God as He really is, would be evil because it can lead to eternal death. Did Christ not come to seek and save or to condemn?

The key to whether one is or is not a follower of Christ was clearly revealed in the circumstances surrounding Judas Iscariot.

One cannot be a follower while determining to do what is contrary to what one clearly knows to be what Christ asks of us. Judas claimed but when push came to shove he betrayed the Son of God thinking he knew better than Jesus, how to advance the Kingdom of God on earth.

Although it may seem that others of the disciples betrayed equally with Judas, the difference was seen in the willingness to accept the gift of repentance when faced with the sure knowledge of their own failure.

"And I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues."Revelation 18:4 NKJV

How we at last respond to that command will, in the judgment, make it plain who we follow. Whether our selves or the Master.

"Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’

“Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock."Matthew 7:22-24 NASB Emphasis their's LHC

God blesses!