Moderators lazarus Posted March 28, 2012 Moderators Posted March 28, 2012 According to Dan Jensen, assistant to the Potomac Conference president for communication, it was voted unanimously “to request the Potomac Conference Standing Articles & Bylaws committee to begin a review process of its bylaws that would enable us to ordain women.” Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein
Members phkrause Posted March 28, 2012 Members Posted March 28, 2012 Well that's interesting. Looks like a number of different conference's are now looking into this. Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
doug yowell Posted March 28, 2012 Posted March 28, 2012 Well that's interesting. Looks like a number of different conference's are now looking into this.Obviously you haven't been atune to their workings over the past 20+ years.They are the identical twin of the SECC and have been secretly "not ordaining" their women pastors. Quote
doug yowell Posted March 28, 2012 Posted March 28, 2012 So what happens if at the next GC the world church stands up and says "no mas"? Or what happens if the rest of the world church refuses to acknowledge the validity of their office? Or what if a local church within the conference refuses to recognize that designation based upon the failure of the world body to accept it? Quote
Moderators lazarus Posted March 28, 2012 Author Moderators Posted March 28, 2012 So what happens if at the next GC the world church stands up and says "no mas"? Or what happens if the rest of the world church refuses to acknowledge the validity of their office? Or what if a local church within the conference refuses to recognize that designation based upon the failure of the world body to accept it? I don't think it will make much difference. In Potomac at least, there are about 7 women who are serving. They can do all the things that I can do as a pastor. If they are ordained and then GC says "no way", It will cause a kerfuffle but it practical terms it won't affect their ability to pastor in the conference. Of course a local church WILL have a leg to stand on if they refuse to accept a female ordained minister. Some churches don't want a female pastor now anyway. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein
olger Posted March 28, 2012 Posted March 28, 2012 To defy the world church and institute oncoming congrgationalism is a bold and ominous new step. We appear to be headed towards the NAD SDA church versus the rest of the world. What are the ramifications of a divided remnant? Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.."
Moderators lazarus Posted March 29, 2012 Author Moderators Posted March 29, 2012 To defy the world church and institute oncoming congrgationalism is a bold and ominous new step. We appear to be headed towards the NAD SDA church versus the rest of the world. What are the ramifications of a divided remnant? As someone personally involved in the discussions and the votes on this issue I'm sure you would understand that I would not see it as defiance. That certainly was not the spirit in which these steps were taken. Congregationalism is the furthest thing from people minds. I don't think it will end there. The remnant is already divided. It has been structurally divided for many years on racial grounds. Potomac conference has had female pastors serving for years in the same way that a male pastor serves. The horse has bolted! The divisions are coming to the surface. The church can still function and move with this division. It's doing just that now. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein
Woody Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 Excellent comments Laz. Congrats to Potomac. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
BobRyan Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 So what happens if at the next GC the world church stands up and says "no mas"? I thought they already did that 15 years ago. Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316.
Woody Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 I could be wrong but what I think the world church is afraid of - is that some ordained woman might go to some anti-woman territory and influence them in one way or another. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Moderators lazarus Posted March 29, 2012 Author Moderators Posted March 29, 2012 I thought they already did that 15 years ago. It was present truth for that time! Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein
Moderators lazarus Posted March 29, 2012 Author Moderators Posted March 29, 2012 So one more major divide is no big deal? You sound like you see division as a spiritual positive in contrast to You're putting words in my "mouth". It is a big deal. I'm simply indicating that the church sill functions and moves forward with that division. Rather than split into a black and white church it fudged the issue and moved on. My guess is that's what will happen in this case. Quote: And if a church within the Potomac conference decides it won't recognize WO? How will that work out? Then they won't get a female pastor. There are very conservative churches in Potomac right now. It's cool. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted March 29, 2012 Administrators Posted March 29, 2012 Quote: And if a church within the Potomac conference decides it won't recognize WO? How will that work out? Then they won't get a female pastor. There are very conservative churches in Potomac right now. It's cool. Why is that so hard for the opposition to wrap their minds around? We do not want to impose female pastors on those who do not want them. But we also expect the reciprocal, don't impose no female pastors on those who do want to have female pastors. And this seems a fundamental difference between to sides of the division. One says, we all must be the same so you have to be like me. If you are not than I can't work with you. The other says we can be different and I will not expect you to be like me. But don't expect me to be like you. But we can still all work together toward the same goal. Is the goal working together or sameness? Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.)
doug yowell Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 You're putting words in my "mouth". It is a big deal. I'm simply indicating that the church sill functions and moves forward with that division. Rather than split into a black and white church it fudged the issue and moved on. My guess is that's what will happen in this case. Quote
doug yowell Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 Is the goal working together or sameness? Nice twist. Isn't sameness the stated goal of WO when they employ Gal.5:28 to promote pastoral roles? Quote
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted March 29, 2012 Administrators Posted March 29, 2012 Originally Posted By: Tom Wetmore Is the goal working together or sameness? Nice twist. Isn't sameness the stated goal of WO when they employ Gal.5:28 to promote pastoral roles? No. Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.)
Dr. Rich Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 So what happens if at the next GC the world church stands up and says "no mas"? Or what happens if the rest of the world church refuses to acknowledge the validity of their office? Or what if a local church within the conference refuses to recognize that designation based upon the failure of the world body to accept it? Ever heard something called the shaking? Quote
Moderators lazarus Posted March 30, 2012 Author Moderators Posted March 30, 2012 But they'll have to help pay for her salary to Pastor in the other church? Will they be directly or indirectly disciplined for publicly speaking out against it? They pay for female salaries already. Do churches in the NAD still discipline people? That's not going to happen. We already have female pastors working in churches, baptizing, marrying, burying and chairing board meetings. They have already been set aside by the laying on of hands (which is ordination but we called it commissioning). All we need to do is to allow them to put the truth on their certificates. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted March 30, 2012 Administrators Posted March 30, 2012 Originally Posted By: doug yowell Nice twist. Isn't sameness the stated goal of WO when they employ Gal.5:28 to promote pastoral roles? No. To elaborate further, since some may not get it. Galatians 5:28 is not about sameness, nor is WO about sameness. And I do not recall that text being used to state that as the goal in promoting pastoral roles. Galatians 3:28 is about equality before God and in the church and oneness in the church, the body of Christ. Not the same as sameness... Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.)
CoAspen Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 The one thing that I find 'tiring' about this issue, year in and year out, is the failure to accept that God is in control and we can not speak for God. This part of the issue is seriously avoided. People will say the only way that we can know Gods desire is through the Bible. The fact that God, very specifically, says He sent the Holy Spirit to be a guide in His absence after ascending to heaven is totally ignored. There is a strong desire to put God into a 'box of the past', thereby saying we have the whole truth and nothing more is to be learned. I find that a must supreme arrogance on our part as believers in God. We want to hold God to how He was understood in ancient history! We constantly say we trust in God, but our words and actions strongly say different. What many believe is that God will only act in certain ways, usually according to their own interpretation. The real issue in WO is not about the role of women in the church, but OUR lack of trust in the guidance of the Holy Spirit, which equals a lack of trust in God. Just as the Israelites lacked in trust and refused to enter the promised land, only seeing giants, even after all the miracles seen with their own eyes, are we going to continue wandering in the wilderness because of our unbelief? Quote
Woody Posted March 30, 2012 Posted March 30, 2012 Quote: The real issue in WO is not about the role of women in the church, but OUR lack of trust in the guidance of the Holy Spirit, which equals a lack of trust in God Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
nuff sed Posted March 31, 2012 Posted March 31, 2012 I haven't had any leading from the Holy Spirit either for or against ordination of women... Nuff Sed Quote
Woody Posted March 31, 2012 Posted March 31, 2012 I haven't had any leading from the Holy Spirit either for or against ordination of women... Nuff Sed It's important to pray before getting an answer. If you pray then you will be against misogyny. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
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