The Crucifixion

[John317]

You do NOT read, "2300 years";

you read, 2300 "evening and morning sacrifices".

Daniel 8:14

And he said to me, "For 2,300 evenings and mornings. Then the sanctuary shall be restored to its rightful state."

Nothing said in that verse about "sacrifices."

Do you think the prophecy deals with 1150 literal days? If so, when do you believe that period began and ended, and what is the Bible evidence of it?

[John317]

SD, we are right now in the delay as found in Matt. 25.

We agree here, Dr. Rich. The NT speaks a number of times of a delay and of a long period between the time of Christ and His return.

[John317]

There is nothing that reads "... you have 2300 year timeline pointing to the 1800's (1844 to be precise) and in Daniel 8 we are told that this is what God calls "the time of the end"."

You do NOT read, "2300 years";

you read, 2300 "evening and morning sacrifices".

You nowhere read that, "pointing to the 1800's (1844 to be precise)";

you do not even read how, where, or when OR THAT, the 2300 "evening and morning sacrifices" 'began', anywhere.

Let's discuss the Bible evidence:

http://clubadventist.com/forum/ubbthread...html#Post536724

[John317]

'his overdue second coming'?

"The Lord does _not_ delay his coming ..."

????

You are rejecting the Bible evidence. The Scriptures themselves speak of a delay in the second coming. Those verses were discussed in the Sabbath School lessons about two weeks ago.

[John317]

My issue is this. Harold Camping was fairly sure he knew how the dominoes were going to fall and provided evidence for it as well, but yet it did not happen.

The difference is that Camping was able to produce only very poor and invalid Bible evidence. Miller produced very good and valid Bible evidence for 1844. The evidence is sound for the date. He was wrong in believing that the "sanctuary" to be cleansed was the earth. There's no biblical evidence for such a concept. There's lot of good evidence, however, that the New Covenant sanctuary is in heaven, and that it requires cleansing. The earthly sanctuary had no more validity after the death of Christ.

[Tobiwan]

The original Question was "What if the Jews had accepted Jesus"?

It has been suggested to me that He would have stayed

Some Moonies I met back in the 70's felt it was John the Baptizer's fault because he refused to admit he was Elijah, and ruined the whole plan.

Maybe, I hope there will be a large section of "if only" programs to watch on space ships during the long journeys between stars when the Stargate system is down for recalibration.

I really want to see the film of what really happened during the time the cloud that enclosed the Cross!

Would He have died at the physical hand of the High Priest in place of the lamb that ran away?

If He had stayed would it only have taken 1150 days for Him and his friends to "finish the work?

Ezekiel 48:35 calls the City "The Lord is There" not that He is coming or is coming back. Sounds like this could be plan A.

Has any one been able to make a list these prophecies deal with the first coming and this list his second?

As to His return it will be the opposite to what has caused the delay, namely the condition of the children He loves so much. It is not a point in time (ready or not), though many will not be ready. When the good news about the King and how He runs His Kingdom has been given to the whole world, He will return and take His friends and children home

[Lineman]

So there's NO "timeline pointing to the 1800's (1844 to be precise)".

You will NEVER be able to 'explain' it because it is an untruth.

Have you seen this? Bible Timelines Online

Truth is amazing and beautiful!

[Lineman]

I see God's Plan A as being what He had planned for man when Adam & Eve were created. They had been given everything imaginable to make them happy and had the prospects of never seeing death.

Plan B was what God talked about & did after Adam and Eve sinned.

Plan B concludes when God goes back to Plan A at the end of the 1,000 years and sin is totally gone forever. Once again there will be real happiness and there will never be suffering or death.

[Kevin H]

There is nothing that reads "... you have 2300 year timeline pointing to the 1800's (1844 to be precise) and in Daniel 8 we are told that this is what God calls "the time of the end"."

You do NOT read, "2300 years";

you read, 2300 "evening and morning sacrifices".

The specific phrase would be "evening-morning" the word Sacrifices is not there and the term for the sacrifices was Morning and Evening. To make the phrase apply to the sacrifices you would need the writer of this passage to be dyslexic and to neglect the word "and"

The term is a cyclic term. you can read about the cyclic thoughts in books such as Henri Frankfort's "Before Philosophy" 1946 University of Chicago Press. This book will teach you about the cyclic applications, which include, but are not limited to the year-day applications (which even Seventh-day Adventist could understand a lot better). 1844 is not the only application of the text, however it is cyclic year-day application.

We need to study better the Prophecy including the relation to Deuteronomy 4, which I've gone into at other times but too late to do tonight.

The prophecy was given in the year that included the day which was exactly 2300 literal days until the feast of Bellshazzar. We find another application of the 2300 days in Exekiel 38 and 39 which we will need to understand better.

[Kevin H]

The original Question was "What if the Jews had accepted Jesus"? ...

If He had stayed would it only have taken 1150 days for Him and his friends to "finish the work?

Ezekiel 48:35 calls the City "The Lord is There" not that He is coming or is coming back. Sounds like this could be plan A.

Has any one been able to make a list these prophecies deal with the first coming and this list his second?

As to His return it will be the opposite to what has caused the delay, namely the condition of the children He loves so much. It is not a point in time (ready or not), though many will not be ready. When the good news about the King and how He runs His Kingdom has been given to the whole world, He will return and take His friends and children home

Good question and we can look some at it later, it's too late right now, however some places to go to for background study include Deuteronomy 4, and the chapter from the SDABC "The Role of Israel in Old Testament Prophecy" From these we can not only ask what if Jesus was accepted, but "what if the Hebrews were faithful in the land" and "what if the Hebrews were faithful in exile"

Deuteronomy 4 teaches that the exile should have ended in the last days. The exile was to have ended with a second glorious exodus lead by the messiah.

Now you need to give up the 1155 days application. That comes from a time when no one knew when the third year of Belshazzar was. We now know that it was the year that included 2300 litteral days to Belshazzar's feast. 2300 days for the Hebrews in exile to fulfill Deuteronomy 4.

Also, as for your question about had the Jews accepted Jesus, Ezekiel basically tells what could have happened. And in Ezekiel 38 and 39 it does give a 2300 day application to the end of the 70 weeks of years.