Another Illustration

[bonnie]

Two arrested in brutal hammer beating in Seminole

The guilty cowardly,hateful,vicious thugs happen to be black.Where is the outcry from anyone black or white in this,regardless of the skin color of the victim?

If he happens to be white do you think Obama will respond as he did for Martin?"The one wielding the hammer could be my son"? Should the automatic leap be made this is a racial hate crime? It is definitely a hate crime.

If it is a black on black crime will it concern Jackson and Sharpton and the other race baiters as much. It would me.They are of the same age as Martin.

If it is black on white crime will Jackson be declaring there is a war on whites by blacks?

Do you think the family of the beaten man is loved by his family as much as Martin was.Is he as important?

Not much mileage to be gained out of the demonization of two black cowards that exhibit this type of animalistic behavior as there is showing a years old picture of a angelic looking black teen.

Doesn't matter what the skin color of the victim,he should be as important,especially where it is more clear cut than Martin

Should riots be threatened if the conviction of these teens does not meet with the approval of the family?

I know it won't happen but I would as soon see black or white that commit these crimes get 20 years at hard labor.Give them a hammer and let them pound rock for the next 20 years

Julius Bender, left, Yahaziel Israel arrested in beating (Seminole County Jail, Seminole County Jail / Apr 02, 2012)

A tip to Crimeline has led to the arrests of two men in a brutal beating that occurred a week ago in the Midway community east of Sanford.

Julius Ricardo Bender, 18, and Yahaziel Isaac Israel, 19, face charges of attempted first-degree murder, burglary with assault or battery and armed burglary.

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The victim, a 50-year-old Winter Springs man whose name has not been released, is on life-support at Orlando Regional Medical Center.

Deputies were called to the area of Lincoln Street and Beardall Avenue about 6:30 p.m. March 26 to investigate a report of a man being beaten, Seminole County Sheriff's spokeswoman Heather Smith said.

They found the victim in the woods on the north side of Lincoln Street.

According to arrest affidavits:

A witness told deputies he heard someone screaming for help and saw two men pull the victim from his vehicle. He said he watched as one man held the victim and the other beat him in the head with a hammer.

After they dragged the victim into the woods, the men drove away in his sport utility vehicle, which was later found abandoned about a half-mile away on Garbo Jack Lane.

Investigators got a break in the case Thursday, when a tip to Crimeline named Bender and gave the street name of the second suspect.

On Friday, investigators learned Israel's fingerprints had been found both inside and outside of the victim's vehicle.

The witness was shown photo lineups and picked out Bender and Israel as the men he saw beating the victim. He said Bender was the man wielding the hammer.

Both men were arrested late Friday.

[Woody]

You bring up some interesting illustrations and questions Bonnie.

[bonnie]

You bring up some interesting illustrations and questions Bonnie.

Where is the media questioning what the witness had to say? Where are the "experts' analyzing the tapes?

Why isn't the victim being identified as a victim of hate crime?

Why isn't his skin color identified?

Is the terror and brutality he experienced less important?

Black or white the guilty are cowardly,hateful human beings but that doesn't make for such interesting reading.

Reverse this story,especially in this area and in the current climate

Two White Teenagers Arrested for Brutally Beating a 50 year old Man with a Hammer,especially if the 50 year old man were black.Can you imagine the "justifiable riots"?

Wonder what the response would be? I know what I think it should be regardless of the skin color of any involved but that won't happen

[Dr. Rich]

You bring up some interesting illustrations and questions Bonnie.

Bias? Ubetcha!

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Woody

You bring up some interesting illustrations and questions Bonnie.

Bias? Ubetcha!

I am definitely biased for truth. Yes.

[SivartM]

Yes, yes, people don't care about white people's problems enough anymore. Everyone's racist against the whites now. I'm not particularly interested in the historical context of today's racial tensions, I just want black people to stop whining about race every time someone gets shot.

[Woody]

Yes, yes, people don't care about white people's problems enough anymore. Everyone's racist against the whites now. I'm not particularly interested in the historical context of today's racial tensions, I just want black people to stop whining about race every time someone gets shot.

[SivartM]

Wow, so you really aren't interested in the historical context of today's racial tensions?

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

And yet another illustration:

boy, 13, doused in gasoline in racially motivated crime

Interesting to note that this was barely noted by the US news media...

[Woody]

Wow, so you really aren't interested in the historical context of today's racial tensions?

Clearly I am not.

History is history. I've heard it hundreds of times and don't need to hear it anymore. At some point it needs to be put in history. I am only concerned with the here and now.

History should not be an excuse for racism.

I have NO tolerance for racism of any kind towards any peoples. No matter what the "history" of it.

It's time for peoples to grow up. What we need is a color-blind society as Martin Luther King called for.

Now there's a man who had his head on straight. He would not approve of the racism that we see nowadays.

[SivartM]

History is history. I've heard it hundreds of times and don't need to hear it anymore. At some point it needs to be put in history. I am only concerned with the here and now.

History should not be an excuse for racism.

I have NO tolerance for racism of any kind towards any peoples. No matter what the "history" of it.

It's time for peoples to grow up. What we need is a color-blind society as Martin Luther King called for.

Now there's a man who had his head on straight. He would not approve of the racism that we see nowadays.

History isn't an excuse for racism! Who here said it was? I think if someone actually cared about racism they would actually learn about it and not just complain about racial minorities being racist against them. History is important. It's why things are the way they are. My parents were born a few years after Emmett Till was shot and thrown into a river with barbed wire around his neck. That sort of social problem does not disappear in one generation; this is relevant to me as a young American.

Black people were enslaved for hundreds of years, dragged from their homelands, cultures destroyed and heritages lost, treated like animals. That is history, and it is recent history. After the slaves happened to be freed as a sort of footnote to the Civil War, they were not given equal rights to white people until the civil right's movement. Some people here were alive when black people had to drink from separate water fountains.

Black people finally got recognized as fully human, but because they had never had much opportunity to move up the socioeconomic ladder, a lot of segregation remained in locality (the high population density of African Americans in some areas) and economic status (the level of poverty that correlates to many of those areas). In the first half of the 1990's, almost half of Americans disapproved of interracial marriage. And that is during my lifetime. This is history.

It is NOT "time for people to grow up"; it takes longer than a few decades for everyone to just "grow up" as you want them to. Almost half of America held a racist belief when I was born. Almost all did when my parents were born.

Do you expect the Jews to just "get over" the Holocaust because it isn't in the here and now? I, for one, commend the German government's continuing educational attempts to try to prevent such a thing from ever happening again. I'm glad they're not focused only on the here and now but on history, on the terrible things that their country did in the past that they feel a responsibility to reconcile. That's a responsibility that for some reason many Americans don't have; they just feel that black people should get over it. But telling them that isn't going to help anything. It will not ease racial tensions at all; it just reinforces the ancient tradition of white people telling black people what to do. It's precisely why we have racial tension between white and black Americans in the first place.

If you don't believe me about interracial marriage views in the 90's:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/28417/Most-Americans-Approve-Interracial-Marriages.aspx

[SivartM]

One thing I forgot to mention: in the Gallup poll I linked to, they not only show the overall American attitudes toward interracial marriage but the individual results for white Americans and African Americans. It shows that not only were blacks more accepting of white-black marriage 50 years ago, but they're still ahead today.

Those racist black people, eh?

[Woody]

At some point - ALL Americans need to grow up and put the past in the past.

[SivartM]

At some point - ALL Americans need to grow up and put the past in the past.

But it's not going to happen now. It might not happen during my lifetime.

Edit: This is a bit of a role reversal. Usually I'm the idealist and it's you guys who are telling me to accept reality. :)

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Woody

At some point - ALL Americans need to grow up and put the past in the past.

But it's not going to happen now. It might not happen during my lifetime.

The fact that America voted for a black president proves that most Americans are not racist. In fact - it's my belief that if he wasn't black - he would not have been voted into office.It's kinda like we wanted to prove to the world that we are not racist.

America might not be perfect. But for the most part - people believe in a color blind society. That is most - except for the blacks. Which is a real switch ain't it?

[Woody]

Quote:

This is a bit of a role reversal. Usually I'm the idealist and it's you guys who are telling me to accept reality.

Yes. And it's my opinion that you need a little attitude adjustment on this issue.

[SivartM]

The fact that America voted for a black president proves that most Americans are not racist. In fact - it's my belief that if he wasn't black - he would not have been voted into office.

America might not be perfect. But for the most part - people believe in a color blind society. That is most - except for the blacks. Which is a real switch ain't it?

It proves no such thing. It may mean that most Americans did not want to vote for Obama's opponents. It may mean that most Americans are at least not racist enough to let racial factors affect their voting. It doesn't mean that racism is a thing of the past.

Did you look at the Gallup poll? Black Americans are and have been more accepting of interracial marriage than white Americans. How can you think that they are more racist? It's demonstrably false.

[Woody]

If people are resistive to blacks - it's because many blacks support racism and most Americans are sick and tired of racism.

[bonnie]

Quote:

Did you look at the Gallup poll? Black Americans are and have been more accepting of interracial marriage than white Americans. How can you think that they are more racist? It's demonstrably false.

I would question the validity of that poll. I did daycare for a interacial couple,she was black/he white. In her words she never knew just how racist blacks could be.

I worked with several young women that were either married to or living with young black men. Their families would only accept them if they denigrated the white race.

Regardless many people for generations demanded their children "marry their own kind" That was the culture of the time.

A interracial marriage should still be approached with some caution and more maturity than the average marriage requires.

The average marriage is difficult enough,when an issue as race is involved it is a little more so.

It is rarely true you are marrying the man/woman ,not the family

[SivartM]

If people are resistive to blacks - it's because many blacks support racism and most Americans are sick and tired of racism.

You have not cited anything to back up this position except your personal feelings. I have cited history, but that was ignored, and I cited a poll which completely contradicted your statement, which has also been completely ignored. If you don't care enough to even consider my points, then I sincerely have trouble understanding how you can care about racism as much as you say you do. And if that means I need an "attitude adjustment", then please, enlighten me on just why history is irrelevant to current events. Since I have a poor attitude, I may as well say that I'm rather shocked that I'm not even 20 and I seem to have more of a respect for history than many of my elders.

Off to adjust my attitude, now...

[Woody]

Why have reverence for something like racism?

At some point - we need to reject it rather then embrace it.

We have to learn from our mistakes - not repeat them.

[Woody]

Perhaps we should dwell on and have reverence for the most recent history of reverse discrimination. It is real?

This all is like two little children. "I hurt more than you do" ... "No I hurt more than YOU." Na na na na na na.

Both sides have hurt.

Why not join arms and put a stop to racism instead of holding onto it?

[SivartM]

NOT RACISM.

The historical context that shows us why racism is still a problem today.

You KNOW I do not have any reverence for racism; that should be blatantly obvious to anyone who does not ignore everything I have said throughout this discussion! Racist does not deserve one iota of respect, but if we do not understand WHY racism is a problem (and I'll give you a hint: it's not because black people are whiny!) then we cannot get RID of it.

Should I even bother saying anything else?

[SivartM]

Why not join arms and put a stop to racism instead of holding onto it?

Because it doesn't work like that. When have major social problems been solved by everyone holding hands and deciding not to be mean anymore?

[Woody]

Racism is alive and well in the heart of many blacks as evidenced with their attack on Zimmerman before they had the facts.

I doubt that if the blacks listen to the hurt of the whites - that it will really help. They are too focused on THEIR hurt.