Achieving Last-Generation Perfection

[OzarkWoman]

This link is to a good sermon about people trying to achieve a sinless perfection. It is the very top video, #9 in this series, which was a really good series, in my opinion anyway.

http://www.lluc.org/article/97/services-sabbath-school/sermon-video-library

[olger]

Obedience good.

Self-righteousness bad.

[Gibs]

We can be perfect only as Christ was perfect as one of us in our sphere. He does enable us to do that. Read EGW's statement on this,

"The word of God places the sin of gluttony in the same catalogue with drunkenness. So offensive was this sin in the sight of God that He gave directions to Moses that a child who would not be restrained on the point of appetite, but would gorge himself with anything his taste might crave, should be brought by his parents before the rulers of Israel, and should be stoned to death. The condition of the glutton was considered hopeless. He would be of no use to others, and was a curse to himself. No dependence could be placed upon him in anything. His influence would be ever contaminating others, and the world would be better without such a character; for his terrible defects would be perpetuated. None who have a sense of their accountability to God will allow the animal propensities to control reason. Those who do this are not Christians, whoever they may be, and however exalted their profession. The injunction of Christ is, "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." He here shows us that we may be as perfect in our sphere as God is in His sphere". {CD 133.2}

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Raphael]

Very interesting quote Gibs.

[Lysimachus]

In that first video of the first link....

....I cannot believe there are Adventists stressing any significance and importance to Easter!

*faints*

[Lysimachus]

Here are some very thought-provoking quotes pertaining to last-generation theology:

Quote:

Everything Imperfect Will Be Put Away.-- When our earthly labors are ended, and Christ shall come for His faithful children, we shall then shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of our Father. But before that time shall come, everything that is imperfect in us will have been seen and put away. All envy and jealousy and evil surmising and every selfish plan will have been banished from the life.--Letter 416, 1907. {3SM 427.1}

When Perfection of Character Is Reached.--Are we striving with all our God-given powers to reach the measure of the stature of men and women in Christ? Are we seeking for His fullness, ever reaching higher and higher, trying to attain to the perfection of His character? When God's servants reach this point, they will be sealed in their foreheads. The recording angel will declare, "It is done." They will be complete in Him whose they are by creation and by redemption.-- Manuscript 148, 1899. {3SM 427.2}

[Dr. Rich]

This link is to a good sermon about people trying to achieve a sinless perfection. It is the very top video, #9 in this series, which was a really good series, in my opinion anyway.

But do any of these sermons agree with the words of Jesus? It is my opinion that not one of them do. Why? Because of a foundational flaw--failure to build upon a rock (the words of Jesus only).

Seek ye first the KOH AND His righteousness..... Be ye perfect even as the Father in heaven is perfect....

Do you suppose Jesus said this just to tease us? Nope, not at all because He said that His yoke is easy, but the gate is narrow.

[BobRyan]

Good post!

And you may want to consider this as well -

Quote:

“The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance.” Galatians 5:22, 23. This fruit can never perish, but will produce after its kind a harvest unto eternal life. {COL 68.1}

“When the fruit is brought forth, immediately he putteth in the sickle, because the harvest is come.” Christ is waiting with longing desire for the manifestation of Himself in His church. When the character of Christ shall be perfectly reproduced in His people, then He will come to claim them as His own. {COL 69.1}

It is the privilege of every Christian not only to look for but to hasten the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, (2 Peter 3:12, margin). Were all who profess His name bearing fruit to His glory, how quickly the whole world would be sown with the seed of the gospel. Quickly the last great harvest would be ripened, and Christ would come to gather the precious grain. {COL 69.2}

[Lysimachus]

I am one who believes that just before Jesus comes, God will have a people that vindicates and reflects His character perfectly.

This is exactly why Jesus has not come yet. Because people continue to think that it is impossible.

Question: If it's impossible for God's people to attain Christian perfection, what's He waiting for?

I could produce hundreds of statements from the Spirit of Prophecy that shows that we are to strive for perfection with everything we have.

This is part of Satan's accusation: "It's impossible for your people to ever become perfect! You're dreaming God to think that it can be done! All your people are deserving of death, not heaven".

But Satan in the end WILL be defeated. God WILL have a people that will put Satan in his place!

"These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God." (Revelation 14:4,5)

Job 1:1 says Job was "perfect". If Job was perfect, we can do it too!

"Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God." (Hebrews 6:1)

[Lysimachus]

Good post!

And you may want to consider this as well -

Quote:

“The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance.” Galatians 5:22, 23. This fruit can never perish, but will produce after its kind a harvest unto eternal life. {COL 68.1}

“When the fruit is brought forth, immediately he putteth in the sickle, because the harvest is come.” Christ is waiting with longing desire for the manifestation of Himself in His church. When the character of Christ shall be perfectly reproduced in His people, then He will come to claim them as His own. {COL 69.1}

It is the privilege of every Christian not only to look for but to hasten the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, (2 Peter 3:12, margin). Were all who profess His name bearing fruit to His glory, how quickly the whole world would be sown with the seed of the gospel. Quickly the last great harvest would be ripened, and Christ would come to gather the precious grain. {COL 69.2}

Amen!

I really feel bad for all those youth at Loma Linda. While there was a lot of truth being said in that sermon, it also leaves a wrong impression in many of their minds. That sermon causes many people to relax and feel that since it's impossible to be perfect, they will not even try.

Our attitude should be: No matter what, by the Grace of God, I'm going to do all in my power to be perfect!

It's not so much about being perfect, it's about the attitude toward it. Is our attitude that we desire to be perfect and we are going to do everything in our power to rely on the grace and strength of God to overcome the world, as Jesus has overcome, or is our attitude going to be that since we can't achieve perfection anyway, we're not going to even try? It is the latter mentality that reveals that the heart is not where it ought to be.

[BobRyan]

In Sermon #9 - LLU begins their assault on this Bible teaching by conjuring a straw-man caricaturization of anyone who takes 1John 2:1 or Matt 5:43-48 or COL 69 seriously. I was very interested to see the world through that LLU liberal lens.

Then Randy Roberts tries to recast the entire discussion as if everyone who accepts 1John 2 and Matt 5 are really just quoting M.L. Andreason and not the Bible or COL 69 or 3SM 427 or dozens of other inspired references.

But he is careful to mix truth with some of the ideas he is suggesting. For example he states that once we come to the Bible with the eisegetical intent of defending our view that sinless perfection is impossible -- then we need to find a way to "do something" with Matt 5:48 so it fits our predetermined bias against the text.

Indeed - that is truly both the method and the problem with it. No question.

He closes by relying on the idea that the listeners will not know that Lev 19:18 "Love your neighbor as yourself" and Deut 6:5 "Love God with all your heart" (if perfectly kept) would in fact mean sinless perfectionism - and not breaking any of the commandments at all (Rom 13) even by strict pre-cross pharisee standards (Matt 22).

And he is careful (in this sermon) to avoid the issue of seeking forgiveness of sin past the Rev 15:8 point in time where there is no more 1John 2:1 mediator in the heavenly sanctuary.

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

Here is an interesting quote - and based on Randy Robert's sermon describing M.L. Andreason - how would Andreason have interpreted this quote?

Quote:

OFC 94.3

Do not settle down in Satan’s easy chair, and say that there is no use, you cannot cease to sin, that there is no power in you to overcome. There is no power in you apart from Christ, but it is your privilege to have Christ abiding in your heart by faith, and He can overcome sin in you, when you cooperate with His efforts.... You may be living epistles, known and read of all men. You are not to be a dead letter, but a living one, testifying to the world that Jesus is able to save.

in Christ,

Bob

[Dr. Rich]

I really feel bad for all those youth at Loma Linda. While there was a lot of truth being said in that sermon, it also leaves a wrong impression in many of their minds. That sermon causes many people to relax and feel that since it's impossible to be perfect, they will not even try.

Our attitude should be: No matter what, by the Grace of God, I'm going to do all in my power to be perfect!

Now that's what I've been talking about all this time--YES, it not only possible to become perfect and righteous, but as Marcos wrote, that is what Christ is waiting for. I agree.

[CoAspen]

As you have noticed there a few 'perfectionist' here, don't go down that road,but continue to trust is what Christ has already accomplished, that is what God sees, not our filthy rags of being perfect.

[cheddar]

So with all this striving and trying how many have reached perfection?

The proof is in the pudding. If you haven’t reached perfection yet – you’re just a blind guide leading the blind.

The famous slogan of the world is – ‘you can do it and no matter what, don’t ever quit.’

These are really just the regurgitated words of Satan because the truth is that in and of ourselves we can’t do anything, not one good thing. The heart of man is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked, who could ever know it.

So it’s time to quit striving and trying and sit back in Jesus’ nice big easy chair of ‘righteousness by faith’ and let him do everything. It’s the only way. All the strivers and tryers will never reach heaven. They may look holy on the outside but inside they’re full of every kind of evil.

The apostle Paul spoke about these truths better than anyone – wouldn’t you agree Dr. Rich? lol.

[cheddar]

As you have noticed there a few 'perfectionist' here, don't go down that road,but continue to trust is what Christ has already accomplished, that is what God sees, not our filthy rags of being perfect.

Amen.

[Dr. Rich]

As you have noticed there a few 'perfectionist' here, don't go down that road,but continue to trust is what Christ has already accomplished, that is what God sees, not our filthy rags of being perfect.

CoAspen, really? Please show me where Jesus ever said that what He did is enough for salvation? He asked Peter if he loved Him, and then what did Jesus say? IF you love me, then feed my sheep.

What you believe CoAspen is what the majority of the christians believe, but that does not come from the mouth of Jesus. Sure, it's a neet feeling to have mistakenly believeing you are saved because of what Jesus did, but that is totally deceiving as it did not come from Jesus.

[Woody]

As you have noticed there a few 'perfectionist' here, don't go down that road,but continue to trust is what Christ has already accomplished, that is what God sees, not our filthy rags of being perfect.

Thanks CoA. Excellent post. This perfectionistic theory is the greatest tool of Satan. But we should not be surprised. For this was foretold. We are in the end times and this is the issue of which the Devil will use. He delights at seeing people go down this path. For it is the path of destruction to think that we can earn our way to heaven by our actions. It is so dangerous and it sucks people down the drain.

WE must watch and pray that it does not suck us down also.

[Stan]

In Sermon #9 - LLU begins their assault on this Bible teaching by conjuring a straw-man caricaturization of anyone who takes 1John 2:1 or Matt 5:43-48 or COL 69 seriously. I was very interested to see the world through that LLU liberal lens.

Then Randy Roberts tries to recast the entire discussion as if everyone who accepts 1John 2 and Matt 5 are really just quoting M.L. Andreason and not the Bible or COL 69 or 3SM 427 or dozens of other inspired references.

REALLY BOB AN ASSAULT?

ASSAULT?

Either start using conversation language, and quit using war-monging language or go play some where else.

[Lysimachus]

I saw that none could share the "refreshing" unless they obtain the victory over every besetment, over pride, selfishness, love of the world, and over every wrong word and action. We should therefore be drawing nearer and nearer to the Lord and be earnestly seeking that preparation necessary to enable us to stand in the battle in the day of the Lord.--EW 71 (1851). {LDE 192.2}

It is left with us to remedy the defects in our characters, to cleanse the soul temple of every defilement. Then the latter rain will fall upon us as the early rain fell upon the disciples on the Day of Pentecost.--5T 214 (1882). {LDE 192.3}