The Truth of it all

[LifeHiscost]

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Business Day

Media & Advertising

WORLD U.S. N.Y. / REGION BUSINESS TECHNOLOGY SCIENCE HEALTH

No Place for Heated Opinions

The vast majority of scientists agree that human activities are influencing changes to the climate — especially at the poles — and believe that the situation requires serious attention. That scientific consensus is absent from “Frozen Planet,” for reasons that shed light on the dilemma of commercial television, where the pursuit of ratings can sometimes clash with the quest for environmental and scientific education, particularly in issues, like global warming, that involve vociferous debate.

Discovery and the BBC jointly decided what to film and how to pay for the production of “Frozen Planet,” as they did for the previous series “Blue Planet,” “Planet Earth” and “Life.” The documentary makers felt a sense of urgency to focus on the polar areas, Ms. Berlowitz said, “because this region is changing faster than any other on Earth — we needed to make this series now.”

One of the seven episodes, “On Thin Ice,” was devoted to climate change. It placed the narrator of the British version of the series, David Attenborough, in front of the camera to show how warming trends are affecting humans and animals in the Arctic. Shown standing at the North Pole, Mr. Attenborough told viewers: “The days of the Arctic Ocean being covered by a continuous sheet of ice seem to be past. Whether or not that’s a good or bad thing, of course, depends on your point of view.”

"Then the fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, and power was given to him to scorch men with fire. And men were scorched with great heat, and they blasphemed the name of God who has power over these plagues; and they did not repent and give Him glory." Rev 16:8,9 NASB

All of the woes have to start somewhere. Contrary to the belief of some, as Sovereign, God accepts the responsibility for the folly of men while humble men realize where the flaw truly lies.

God blesses!

[Kevin H]

How very true. Sadly too many Christians have sided with the oil companies who are using the same methods that the tobacco companies used to say that tobacco does not cause smoking to deny the warming. But I'll take the words of Revelation over the words of the Oil Companies.

[LifeHiscost]

How very true. Sadly too many Christians have sided with the oil companies who are using the same methods that the tobacco companies used to say that tobacco does not cause smoking to deny the warming. But I'll take the words of Revelation over the words of the Oil Companies.

Bold mine. LHC

God blesses!

[Gerr]

If you live in Alaska or Siberia, or Greenland, global warming might be a very welcome thing. I wouldn't mind doing away with winter here western N. Carolina, then I can plant my favorite tropical/subtropical fruit trees.

[doug yowell]

How very true. Sadly too many Christians have sided with the oil companies who are using the same methods that the tobacco companies used to say that tobacco does not cause smoking to deny the warming. But I'll take the words of Revelation over the words of the Oil Companies.

And I'll take the words of Peter over the words of Al Gore. "But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same Word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men." A Christian blaming oil companies for the impending doom of civilization and applying that to the fulfillment of the prophetic Word is rather sad. If the world that now exists is functioning only because of the imposition of God's daily providence then scientists should first inquire of that source as to when and how humanity will violate the limits of that grace. "For in Him we live and move and have our being." Those alleged vast majority of scientists seem to ignore the study of the science of morality which the book of Revelation claims is the cause of this world's decay, not the alleged overuse of the earth's natural resources.

[Guest]

Originally Posted By: Kevin H

How very true. Sadly too many Christians have sided with the oil companies who are using the same methods that the tobacco companies used to say that tobacco does not cause smoking to deny the warming. But I'll take the words of Revelation over the words of the Oil Companies.

And I'll take the words of Peter over the words of Al Gore. "But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same Word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men." A Christian blaming oil companies for the impending doom of civilization and applying that to the fulfillment of the prophetic Word is rather sad. If the world that now exists is functioning only because of the imposition of God's daily providence then scientists should first inquire of that source as to when and how humanity will violate the limits of that grace. "For in Him we live and move and have our being." Those alleged vast majority of scientists seem to ignore the study of the science of morality which the book of Revelation claims is the cause of this world's decay, not the alleged overuse of the earth's natural resources.

Ditto doug....well put!

[olger]

And I'll take the words of Peter over the words of Al Gore. "But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same Word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men." A Christian blaming oil companies for the impending doom of civilization and applying that to the fulfillment of the prophetic Word is rather sad. If the world that now exists is functioning only because of the imposition of God's daily providence then scientists should first inquire of that source as to when and how humanity will violate the limits of that grace. "For in Him we live and move and have our being." Those alleged vast majority of scientists seem to ignore the study of the science of morality which the book of Revelation claims is the cause of this world's decay, not the alleged overuse of the earth's natural resources.

[fccool]

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And I'll take the words of Peter over the words of Al Gore. "But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same Word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."

What does that have to do with the idea of being stewards and taking care of the environment? Where in the verse above the idea of "free-for-all" pillaging of the Earth is conveyed? I really don't quite understand how you get that our of this verse. It says nothing about deteriorating environmental conditions as inflicted by humans on the environment and previously balanced Eco-systems.

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A Christian blaming oil companies for the impending doom of civilization and applying that to the fulfillment of the prophetic Word is rather sad.

I agree, but that does not diminish the fact that oil companies do their fair share of environmental damage, and should be kept in check. Neither does it diminish the fact that humans damage the environments for profit and at times ... merely for fun. It's not about balanced survival anymore in terms of global economy... the way ancient cultures understood environment they were living with.

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If the world that now exists is functioning only because of the imposition of God's daily providence then scientists should first inquire of that source as to when and how humanity will violate the limits of that grace. "For in Him we live and move and have our being."

God hypothesis is unfalsifiable. You really don't get how science works if you are demanding that of scientists. Science does not work based on ancient promise of invisible things. It works by observing repeatedly detectable things, and without rushing judgement to supernatural causes.

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Those alleged vast majority of scientists seem to ignore the study of the science of morality which the book of Revelation claims is the cause of this world's decay, not the alleged overuse of the earth's natural resources.

This is where I'm usually puzzled with the above distinction. Morality in terms of pure understanding of it basically is an idea of proper human behavior. How is it that you believe that pillaging natural resources to the point of creating environmental conditions that are not only damaging to health of animals, but eventually humans themselves... is any less immoral than let's say eating a pig?

[phkrause]

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And I'll take the words of Peter over the words of Al Gore. "But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same Word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."

What does that have to do with the idea of being stewards and taking care of the environment? Where in the verse above the idea of "free-for-all" pillaging of the Earth is conveyed? I really don't quite understand how you get that our of this verse. It says nothing about deteriorating environmental conditions as inflicted by humans on the environment and previously balanced Eco-systems.

Quote:

A Christian blaming oil companies for the impending doom of civilization and applying that to the fulfillment of the prophetic Word is rather sad.

I agree, but that does not diminish the fact that oil companies do their fair share of environmental damage, and should be kept in check. Neither does it diminish the fact that humans damage the environments for profit and at times ... merely for fun. It's not about balanced survival anymore in terms of global economy... the way ancient cultures understood environment they were living with.

Quote:

If the world that now exists is functioning only because of the imposition of God's daily providence then scientists should first inquire of that source as to when and how humanity will violate the limits of that grace. "For in Him we live and move and have our being."

God hypothesis is unfalsifiable. You really don't get how science works if you are demanding that of scientists. Science does not work based on ancient promise of invisible things. It works by observing repeatedly detectable things, and without rushing judgement to supernatural causes.

Quote:

Those alleged vast majority of scientists seem to ignore the study of the science of morality which the book of Revelation claims is the cause of this world's decay, not the alleged overuse of the earth's natural resources.

This is where I'm usually puzzled with the above distinction. Morality in terms of pure understanding of it basically is an idea of proper human behavior. How is it that you believe that pillaging natural resources to the point of creating environmental conditions that are not only damaging to health of animals, but eventually humans themselves... is any less immoral than let's say eating a pig?

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

Those alleged vast majority of scientists seem to ignore the study of the science of morality which the book of Revelation claims is the cause of this world's decay, not the alleged overuse of the earth's natural resources.

Not to deny the influence of man's immorality, would the earth have just worn out irregardless of man's use of it's resources?

"Lift up your eyes to the heavens, And look on the earth beneath. For the heavens will vanish away like smoke, The earth will grow old like a garment, And those who dwell in it will die in like manner; But My salvation will be forever, And My righteousness will not be abolished."Isaiah 51:6 NKJV

"And the nations were enraged, and Your wrath came, and the time came for the dead to be judged, and the time to reward Your bond-servants the prophets and the saints and those who fear Your name, the small and the great, and to destroy those who destroy the earth."Revelation 11:18 NKJV Bold mine LHC

God blesses!

[doug yowell]

"But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same Word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."

[doug yowell]

Not to deny the influence of man's immorality, would the earth have just worn out irregardless of man's use of it's resources?

Absolutely. That's what the Bible teaches. It just suggests that obedience to God's laws would forestall the inevitable.

[Bravus]

Why yes, I see it now! It's not the trillions of tons of carbon dioxide we're pumping into the atmosphere that's causing climate change! It's people having sex in unapproved ways!

[LifeHiscost]

Why yes, I see it now! It's not the trillions of tons of carbon dioxide we're pumping into the atmosphere that's causing climate change! It's people having sex in unapproved ways!

Well, perhaps yes. The Lord must come before we drown in our own sewage.

God blesses!

[olger]

The Christian church stands today with regard to environmentalism where it stood a century ago with regard to Darwinism. At that time, some Christians strove valiantly, some were deceived, some were unaware, and some capitulated. Our response must be better. We must exercise a wise, courageous, powerful, spiritual warfare by which we restore the teaching of Genesis 1:27–28 while tearing down ideological strongholds, taking “every thought captive to the obedience of Christ” (2 Corinthians 10:4–5).

[olger]

What does it mean to “destroy the earth.”

Regarding Revelation 11:18, I believe there is a there is a strong contextual link to Genesis 6:5-7. It is the human heart that "destroys" the earth by filling it with iniquity and violence "as in the days of Noah" (Matthew 24:37.)

1 Peter 3:13 tells us that the earth will be destroyed because of unrighteousness. This agrees with revelation 11:8 where it is talking about God destroying THEM who destroy the earth. The question is, destroy it with what?

The idea that Revelation 11:8 is referring to those that are not environmentalists overlooks the overriding biblical theme that unrighteousness is what destroys the earth. What is unrighteousness? Lying, pride, adultery, violence, homosexuality, rebellion, hatred etc. For instance, the rise of homosexuality is just another indicator that the earth's cup of iniquity is filling up. The modern emphasis on environmental "sin" is a smoke screen for the real causes and description of iniquity. It redefines sin in a way that God has not done.

We ought to have a discussion on the meaning of "destroy those who destroy the earth."

Modern environmentalists insist that this is referring to M&M wrappers in the ditch, Cooper tires buried in landfills and the carnal use of plastic WalMart bags while driving cars.

This extremely shallow view is a politically-driven distraction to the real meaning of the verse. The parallel passage of Revelation 11:18 is in Genesis 6:5-7, where God says that He is going to destroy the earth (people) because it was filled with violence and wickedness. The word diaphtheiro:G1311 in Revelation 11 carries the meaning of “corrupt” as its primary definition. 1 Timothy 6:5 uses the word to describe men of corrupt minds who pervert the earth. Jesus Himself uses the word in Luke 12 to describe what moths do to earthly treasure. They corrupt it.

"And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth. And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth" (Genesis 6:12-13).

Jesus said that "As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man (Matthew 24). The two events are contextually bound together, and the byproduct of men in both events is wickedness that fills (and corrupts) the earth.

Thus to claim that using Wal-Mart bags and/or burning a wood stove causes God to eventually destroy you because of His globe-value is new level of missing-the-point. It is the human heart that destroys the earth by filling it with iniquity and violence "as in the days of Noah." On that score, God is very clear. Such people will be destroyed because of their premiere byproduct. A heart in rebellion towards Him.

rejoice always,

g

[doug yowell]

Clear and concise,og.

[olger]

ugh

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

Thus to claim that using Wal-Mart bags and/or burning a wood stove causes God to eventually destroy you because of His globe-value is new level of missing-the-point. It is the human heart that destroys the earth by filling it with iniquity and violence "as in the days of Noah." On that score, God is very clear. Such people will be destroyed because of their premiere byproduct. A heart in rebellion towards Him.

g

And to drop a few neutron bombs here and there, effectively destroying the world and its' human population, means destruction of the world in real time.

Whether unrighteousness is revealed by the inordinate use of plastic bags or the immediate destruction of the lives of thousands of people through the use of bombs disguised as commercial jets, rebellion of men against God is plainly seen by those whose spiritual eyesight is fine tuned through continuous reading of the Holy Word, with dependence upon the Holy Spirit to reveal the Way, the Truth, and the Life.

God blesses!

[olger]

Rebellion bad.

Obedience not.

[Bravus]

Rebellion bad.

Obedience not.

Well, yeah. But when God tells you to look after the world, and you trash it, that's rebellion.

[Tom Wetmore]

Originally Posted By: olger

Rebellion bad.

Obedience not.

Well, yeah. But when God tells you to look after the world, and you trash it, that's rebellion.

...and it's certainly not obedience.

[phkrause]

Well, yeah. But when God tells you to look after the world, and you trash it, that's rebellion.

[phkrause]

...and it's certainly not obedience.

[doug yowell]

And to drop a few neutron bombs here and there, effectively destroying the world and its' human population, means destruction of the world in real time.