Stan Posted May 23, 2012 Posted May 23, 2012 "Define Justice" Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com
Moderators Gerr Posted May 23, 2012 Moderators Posted May 23, 2012 Doing what is right or according to law. Quote
Administrators Naomi Posted May 23, 2012 Administrators Posted May 23, 2012 When the reward & punishment is fair & equal for all. Quote If your dreams are not big enough to scare you, they are not big enough for God
CoAspen Posted May 23, 2012 Posted May 23, 2012 Not a 'cut and dried' definition! Justice for whom, accused or victim? They can and are different at times. Quote
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted May 23, 2012 Administrators Posted May 23, 2012 Righting wrongs... Restoration. Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.)
Members phkrause Posted May 23, 2012 Members Posted May 23, 2012 When the reward & punishment is fair & equal for all. Interesting answer for a interesting OP. I agree with "its different" for each person or group, especially in light of some of the comments on a few threads here, but even within certain groups there is disagreement. Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Administrators Gail Posted May 23, 2012 Administrators Posted May 23, 2012 When the reward befits the deed, for good or for bad. Justice usually focuses on the victim, doesn't it? Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.
CoAspen Posted May 23, 2012 Posted May 23, 2012 Quote: Justice usually focuses on the victim, doesn't it? I believe our 'justice system' is about the accused, did they or didn't they. I wonder how often 'victims' seek out justice for themselves or do they just want the accused to get 'theirs'. Criminal justice is different then civil justice? Maybe? Quote
Stan Posted May 23, 2012 Author Posted May 23, 2012 What if God gave us what we deserve? Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com
Members phkrause Posted May 23, 2012 Members Posted May 23, 2012 That would be justice Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
CoAspen Posted May 23, 2012 Posted May 23, 2012 He isn't called a 'God of mercy' for no reason! That should be our approach to others as well in their spiritual life. I have always wondered why 'we' seem to focus so much on the 'justice' rather than the mercy.....hmmmmm. Quote
Members phkrause Posted May 23, 2012 Members Posted May 23, 2012 Very good point CoAspen. Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Administrators Gail Posted May 23, 2012 Administrators Posted May 23, 2012 yup yup yup! Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.
Moderators Gerr Posted May 24, 2012 Moderators Posted May 24, 2012 We would also be toast! But God also has another side to His character, and that is mercy. He has to balance the two. Justice without mercy would be tyranny. And mercy without justice would be anarchy. Quote
doug yowell Posted May 24, 2012 Posted May 24, 2012 We would also be toast! But God also has another side to His character, and that is mercy. He has to balance the two. Justice without mercy would be tyranny. And mercy without justice would be anarchy. Something the West is fast approaching. Quote
Members phkrause Posted May 24, 2012 Members Posted May 24, 2012 We would also be toast! But God also has another side to His character, and that is mercy. He has to balance the two. Justice without mercy would be tyranny. And mercy without justice would be anarchy. Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
jasd Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 QR frame: A finger in his eye - for comeuppance. [/oy! oy! me so kiddding!] :( Quote
Lineman Posted May 28, 2012 Posted May 28, 2012 * Justice is getting exactly what we deserve. (which in this case is death) * Mercy is not getting the bad that we deserve. * Grace is getting the good that we do not deserve. God's justice and mercy can be compared to the pardon that a governor of a state can give to a guilty prisoner who is facing execution (the punishment of death) for something that he or she actually did. JUSTICE will be served and they will be killed unless the governor has MERCY and pardons the prisoner. But if the governor goes on and gives that guilty prisoner not only a pardon, but also total freedom, a huge mansion to live in right on the governor's property (the forgiven gets to live right with the governor), and unlimited resources the governor has then given the forgiven both MERCY & GRACE. (OOPS, sorry. I did not know religious comments were not to be placed in this forum. Know better now. Question, anyone know of a video clip that shows this kind of explanation?) www.FreeBibleTimelines.com www.bibletimelines.org/framedgrace.html Quote Visit and Share the BibleTimelines.com URL ! (Explain the Gospel in just a few minutes, or maybe even seconds.)
fccool Posted May 28, 2012 Posted May 28, 2012 It's very difficult to discuss Biblical idea of justice, because it's viewed very selectively with many justifications and rationalizations as to why any actions that Christian God would do would be justified. With such view ... can there really be any unjust action of God? Let's say that we have a God who kills off (or orders killing off) unborn children, would you consider such act to be an act of justice? How does one reconcile such concepts with the universal views of justice? If there's no standards against which we can judge God's actions, then the entire concept of justice is meaningless. Justice then becomes anything that God says and does, no matter how horrible it may be or seem. Be it killing any firstborn in Egypt, or rewarding people for job well done in any inconsistent way He desires. Quote
Moderators Gerr Posted May 28, 2012 Moderators Posted May 28, 2012 Since God is the very embodiment of righteousness, everything He does must be right. Quote
fccool Posted May 28, 2012 Posted May 28, 2012 Since God is the very embodiment of righteousness, everything He does must be right. That's sort of like saying that Michael Jordan is embodiment of Basketball. Sure, the two are link by their relationship to the concept, but these are not the same thing. One is a person, the other one is an abstract concept that we give meaning by evaluating a collective of concrete ideas. I really can't say that Michael Jordan is basketball. Michael Jordan plays the game of basketball better than anyone we know, but he is not basketball. The concept of basketball exists "outside" of Michael Jordan and we reconcile it by how Michael Jordan relates to it... thus we have a set of standards by which we connect Michael Jordan to the game, and we can evaluate how "good" Michael Jordan is at playing it. The same with your idea of God and righteousness. It's what I call an infinitely recursive mentality. Sort of like "Recursion - see Recursion" vocabulary joke. Saying that God is righteousness is really no different than saying that righteousness is righteousness. If there's no other referential way to judge right and wrong, then the concept is meaningless. Coming back to the example, let's say I asked why do you think Michael Jordan is the best player..., and your answer is "Because he is Michael Jordan". The answer is meaningless without some sort of external standard that we can judge such concept. A proper way to approach it would perhaps be looking at some statistics... what Michael Jordan has done. Evaluate the track record against some sort of standards that are not "Michael Jordan". Otherwise the concept of the best player becomes Michael Jordan no matter what. If Michael Jordan misses every shot, he is still the best player and his team wins. That's sort of absurd, don't you think? But, that's exactly what you are doing with concept of God and justice. Quote
Members phkrause Posted May 28, 2012 Members Posted May 28, 2012 Since God is the very embodiment of righteousness, everything He does must be right. "must be right" Gerry I'd say everything he did was right! Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
fccool Posted May 29, 2012 Posted May 29, 2012 PK... how do you know that everything he did was right? According to what criteria are you going to make this judgement? Quote
Members phkrause Posted May 29, 2012 Members Posted May 29, 2012 PK... how do you know that everything he did was right? According to what criteria are you going to make this judgement? Not making a judgment here! I trust in the Bible period so have no problem making that statement. Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
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