Care To Preach The Gospel?

[Samie]

Description of the Gospel in its 3 dimensions, summarized in one sentence:

Quote:

God through Christ, in the 1st dimension, saved all from sin and enabled all to be able to overcome, but only those who, in the 2nd dimension, prove themselves overcomers by their positive response to the leading of the Holy Spirit, will, in the third dimension, be rewarded with life eternal.

The brand of gospel popular among many is one which requires man's acceptance of or belief in the Savior BEFORE a person could avail of the benefits derived from the life, death and resurrection of the Savior. Amazingly, the 'acceptance' required is not man's part, because salvation is all grace, no human participation. If it is not man's part, whose part? If it is not man's part, why does he get the blame if he does not do the 'accepting' which is not his part after all? Incoherent as it is, this is the prevailing 'truth' of the age. This is a distorted gospel. Why? Because...

1. It indirectly condemns everyone who lived and died without hearing about Christ. Since they were not able to accept Christ, they cannot be saved, because only those who accepted Christ can be saved. But is that biblically fair? If yes, then, no one before the cross can make it to heaven, neither those who were born, lived and died after the cross but never had the opportunity of knowing about Christ! These men were never saved as per distorted gospel. So why would Scriptures ascribe God the title Savior of all men if He had not saved all?

2. It succinctly prompts many to take part in the Great Commission with a selfish motive. Believers in the distorted gospel somehow feels it is not the fault of those born in places still unreached both by missionaries and communication facilities to be blamed for not hearing about Christ till they died. They therefore rightly conclude people will be judged according to the light each one received. So why take part in the Great Commission? Why bother telling people additional light and in the process add to what they will be held accountable for? Why make their burden heavier? The only valid excuse is they need to take part in the Great Commission because they will be held accountable if they don't. Love for God and fellow-men, or love of self first?

3. It covertly preaches a message of hopelessness while openly claimed to be a message of hope. Preachers of the distorted gospel claims they are bringing a message of hope to those still lost in sin, who can only be saved from sin if they accept Christ as personal Savior. But Scriptures indicate that while still unsaved from sin, man is spiritually dead, and is not capable of doing good. Obviously, the act of 'accepting' the Savior is 'good'. But this is required from the unsaved man who cannot do any good act, to do this good act first before he can be saved. So how can he do it? Impossible scenario knotted in inconsistencies and laced with hopelessness, pushed down the throat of parishioners to be swallowed - hook, line and sinker - by 'faith'. The fact that men can now do the act of 'accepting' the Savior is proof enough he had been made capable and therefore already saved from sin prior to his act of 'accepting'.

4. It somehow presents a false sense of security. Belief in the distorted gospel leads many to claim, that since they have believed in Christ and His merits, heaven is their home, no matter what. Obedience to what God requires for a rightful, godly life, does not count; it is their Faith IN Christ that does, and that this Faith IN Christ is separate and distinct from work. False security. The Savior Himself - while still on earth and after He ascended to heaven - has warned that every man will be rewarded according to what he has done.

5. It causes division in the body of Christ. Belief in the distorted gospel leads Christian groupings to claim exclusivity, albeit not emphatically. They not only exclude non-Christians who they out-rightly consider non-believers, but also those of the other groups, because for each of these groups the true believers are those who subscribe to their own set of beliefs, and only true believers are part of the body of Christ. Finger-pointing. The message of reconciliation almost totally forgotten and side-lined. Non-Christian religions likewise guilty of the same spiritual crime. Totally oblivious of the fact that on the cross, God fashioned humanity into the body of His Son.

The list could still grow.

Our Savior had indicated the gospel need to be preached into all the world before the end comes. But the gospel preached to and heard by the world is a distorted one. The preaching of the real one seems to be just starting.

Care to preach the gospel as revealed in Scriptures?

[fccool]

Can you define spiritually dead. It's a bit unclear. What does it mean, and how does it work? What do you mean when you say spiritual, and spiritually?

[Samie]

Can you define spiritually dead. It's a bit unclear. What does it mean, and how does it work? What do you mean when you say spiritual, and spiritually?

Spiritually dead.

Meaning:

1. Applied to a person, one who is incapable of doing anything good because of sin that separates him from the source of all good - God.

2. Applied to a condition, a condition where one is incapable of doing anything good brought about by the tyranny of sin that separates him from God.

How does it work:

1. It is the result of sin.

2. Unless the sin problem is solved, the condition exists.

Spiritual: positively related with the Holy Spirit

Spiritually: in a manner positively related with the Holy Spirit

[Robert]

God through Christ, in the 1st dimension, saved all from sin and enabled all to be able to overcome, but only those who, in the 2nd dimension, prove themselves overcomers by their positive response to the leading of the Holy Spirit, will, in the third dimension, be rewarded with life eternal.

This statement is anti-gospel...it's anti-christ. In other words it's legalistic and belongs to the Old Covenant.

[Robert]

Paul predicted concerning the falling away that would take place before the second coming. This prediction is recorded in his second letter to the Christians in Thessalonica [read 2 Thes. 2:1-4].

According to this prophecy, the Christian church would depart from the true and pure gospel. We know this took place before and during the Dark Ages. But before He would come again, Jesus predicted that the true gospel, in all its fullness and power, would be restored and proclaimed again. This restoration of the gospel began at the time of the 16th Century Reformation, but it is in our day it will be fully restored and proclaimed with a loud and mighty voice [read Rev. 18:1-5].

The devil, the enemy of souls, has been fully aware of this great commission God has given us as a people. Therefore, from the very beginning of the Advent Movement, he has tried to keep us from reaching our goal and fulfilling our mission. Sad to say, he has had great success. Note this statement made by Ellen G. White to a group of ministers at Battle Creek in 1890, over a hundred years ago:

The danger has been presented to me again and again of entertaining, as a people, false ideas of justification by faith. I have been shown for years that Satan would work in a special manner to confuse the mind on this point. The law of God has been largely dwelt upon and has been presented to congregations, almost as destitute of the knowledge of Jesus Christ and His relation to the law as was the offering of Cain. I have been shown that many have been kept from the faith because of the mixed, confused ideas of salvation, because the ministers have worked in a wrong manner to reach hearts. The point that has been urged upon my mind for years is the imputed righteousness of Christ. I have wondered that this matter was not made the subject of discourses in our churches throughout the land, when the matter has been kept so constantly urged upon me and I have made it the subject of nearly every discourse and talk that I have given to the people. (FW 18).

This is our sad history and the fact is that, after over 150 years of existence, we are no closer to our goal that we were when E. G. White made that statement. In fact, our situation is worse today than it was a hundred years ago. We are so confused and polarized concerning the gospel that one Australian scholar challenged us some 16 years ago:

Will the true Seventh-day Adventist please stand up?

Within Adventism today some five different kinds of gospels can be heard:

The conservatives in our midst are preaching the Armenian gospel, which is anything but good news: that I must first meet God’s requirements of faith, repentance, and confession before He will put me into Christ and save me. Thus, instead of being good news, the gospel has become good advice. Unfortunately, the great majority of our people have failed to meet all of God’s requirements and, therefore, have been robbed of the joy and assurance of salvation. As a result, many are leaving the church in discouragement.

Then you have the traditionalists who claim to be upholding Historist Adventism. They are preaching a Galatian type of Gospel: salvation is not by faith alone or grace alone but by faith plus works or grace plus keeping the law. This is a subtle form of legalism that has produced a Pharisaical people who are always criticizing those who do not see as they do or whose behavior is not conforming to the do’s and don’ts of the church.

At the other extreme we have the liberals who are preaching the social gospel. That is: the gospel is practicing the life of Christ, going about doing good. This is a sophisticated form of legalism. Yes, the true gospel will produce a people who will go about doing good, but that is the fruits of the gospel and not the gospel itself. Any form of works that we do that is equated with the gospel is legalism. The gospel is the birth, life, death, and resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ, period. Nothing must be added to that or we are perverting the gospel.

Since the sixties another gospel has been introduced into Adventism: the evangelical gospel. While there is much truth in this gospel, it is an incomplete gospel. Its emphasis is on salvation from the guilt and punishment of sin only, our ego-centric concerns. But the gospel did not only save us from the guilt and punishment of sin but also from sin itself and our slavery to it. This brings us to the fifth gospel, which I believe is the true and full gospel God raised the Advent Movement to restore and proclaim.

[Robert]

The gospel:

One of the great challenges that faces the Christian Church today is how can God justify the ungodly [Romans 4:5] and still maintain His integrity to His holy law which condemns sinners [Galatians 3:10]? Because no law will allow an innocent person to die for the crime of a guilty one many sincere people, especially Islamic scholars, accuse Christianity of being an unethical religion. Their main argument is that the doctrine of substitution, as taught by Christianity, is based on a faulty Roman law which allowed an innocent man, Christ, to die in place of the guilty human race. Hence they accuse the Christians religion of “legal fiction.”

It is true that even the law of God clearly prohibits an innocent man dying for the guilty — “the soul that sins, it must die” [Deuteronomy 24:16; Ezekiel 18:1-20 emphasis supplied]. What than is the Biblical solution to the problem of “legal fiction.” The answer is the in Christ motif or idea, the central theme of the apostle Paul’s theology.

There is a key phrase that runs through Paul’s epistles. If you were to take this phrase out, there would be very little left of Paul’s exposition of the gospel. This recurring phrase is the expression in Christ or in Christ Jesus. This phrase is sometimes expressed by other similar phrases, such as, in Him, by Him, through Him, in the Beloved, together with Him, etc. These are all synonymous terms implying the in Christ motif.

The truth behind this phrase was first introduced by Christ Himself, when He told His disciples to “abide in me.” These are the under girding words of the gospel. And if we don’t understand what the New Testament means by this expression in Christ, we will never be able to fully understand the incredible good news of the gospel.

There is nothing we have as Christians except we have it in Christ. Everything we enjoy and hope for, as believers, i.e., the peace through justification by faith, the Holy Spirit power to live holy lives through the experience of sanctification, and the blessed hope of glorification, is ours always in Christ. Outside of Him we have nothing but sin, condemnation, and death.

The expression in Christ, however, is a rather difficult phrase to understand. Just as “you must be born again” was mind-boggling to Nicodemus; so likewise, the concept of in Christ is a very difficult idea for us to understand. This is especially true of the western mind. How can I, as an individual, be in someone else? Worse still, how could I, born in the twentieth century, have been in Christ who lived almost 2000 years ago? This makes absolutely no sense to our western way of thinking. As a result we miss the full blessing that God has prepared for us in Christ.

What does Scripture mean when it tells us that we were together with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection, and now, are sitting with Him in heavenly places [Ephesians 2:5,6]? Because we cannot fathom these facts we tend to ignore or skim over them. Yet the whole understanding of the gospel hinges on our understanding the significance of these two vital words in Christ.

The in Christ motif or idea is based on the biblical idea of solidarity or corporate oneness. Therefore, if we are to come to grips with this phrase we must first understand what the Bible has to say about solidarity. Two New Testament texts help us understand Biblical solidarity. The first is Romans 9:12, a quotation taken from Genesis 25:23 — the twins, Esau and Jacob, represent two nations, not individuals. The second is Hebrews 7:7-l — Levi paid tithe to Melchizedek in Abraham, since he was “in the loins” of his great grandfather Abraham when he paid tithe to Melchizedek.

Because the Bible teaches that the human race is the multiplication of Adam’s life the fundamental truth of Scripture is:

God created all men in one man — i.e., in Adam [Acts 17:26].

Satan ruined all men in one man — i.e., in Adam [Romans 5:12, 18a].

God redeemed all men in one man — i.e., in Christ [Titus 2:11; 1 John 2:2].

In order to save fallen humanity, God had to first qualify Christ to be our substitute so that He could live and die in our place. God did this by uniting Christ’s divinity to our corporate humanity, that needed redeeming, in the incarnation. This is the in Christ motif [see 1 Corinthians 1:30]. Through this union Christ became the second or last Adam (the word adam in Hebrew has a collective significance and means mankind).

As our substitute and representative Christ had to meet the full demands of the law in order to save fallen humanity. By His perfect obedience Christ met the positive demands of the law, and by His death He met the justice of the law. Thus, in this doing and dying He legally justified all men and became humanity’s Savior [Romans 5:18; Ephesians 2:5, 6]. Just as in Adam all die, likewise Scripture declares that in Christ all shall live [1 Corinthians 15:21, 22].

Because God created man with a free will, Christ’s identity with us has to be reciprocal to make the legal justification He obtained for all men effective individually. This is what justification by faith is all about. Faith is the channel or instrument by which the believer accepts his or her united with Christ and Him crucified (Galatians 2:19, 20). This two-sided union — You in Christ and Christ in you — is what constitutes true Christianity and man’s only hope of salvation: standing legally just before God’s holy law [Romans 10:4].

[Gibs]

Some council from EGW,

" False Sanctification and Holiness

Beware of Doctrine "Just Believe."--We shall meet with false doctrines of every kind, and unless we are acquainted with what Christ has said, and are following His instruction, we shall be led astray. One of the most dangerous of these doctrines is that of false sanctification. There are those who claim to be holy, and yet are breaking God's commandments. Their assertion that they are sinless is false and should not be received. . . . {Ev 595.2}

Another doctrine that will be presented is that all that we have to do is to believe in Christ--to believe that He has forgiven our sins, and that after we are

forgiven, it is impossible for us to sin. This is a snare of Satan. It is true that we must believe in Christ. He is our only hope of salvation. But it is also true that we must work out our individual salvation daily in faith, not boastingly but with fear and trembling. We are to use every power of our being in His service, and after we have done our utmost, we are still to regard ourselves as unprofitable servants. Divine power will unite with our efforts, and as we cling to God with the hand of faith, Christ will impart to us His wisdom and His righteousness. Thus, by His grace, we shall be enabled to build upon the sure foundation.--Manuscript 27, 1886. {Ev 595.3}

A Shallow Profession of Holiness.--Those who would follow Christ must be grounded upon the principles of truth. They need to understand what the Bible teaches in regard to faith, and sanctification through the truth. They must be so established in this knowledge that they cannot be moved to take false positions on the doctrine of holiness, but will be able to illustrate in their lives the practical workings of this heaven-given principle. The people of God must be able to distinguish between the genuine and the spurious. {Ev 596.1}

There are those who profess holiness, who declare that they are wholly the Lord's, who claim a right to the promises of God, while they do not render obedience to His commandments. . . . {Ev 596.2}

It is true that there are many who have never had the light of present truth, who, through the grace given them of Christ, are keeping the law as far as they understand it. Those who are thus living up to the best light they have, are not of the class whom the apostle John condemns. His words apply to those who boast of believing in Jesus, who claim holiness,they lightly regard the requirements of the law of God. While they talk of the love of Jesus, their love is not deep enough to lead to obedience. The fruit they bear, shows the character of the tree. It proves that their faith is not genuine. Yet this class, though entitled to nothing, though they have no right to the promises of God, boldly claim all His blessings. While they give nothing, they claim everything. They close their ears to the truth, refuse to listen to the plain "Thus saith the Lord," but by professing holiness they deceive many, leading souls away by their pretentious faith that has no foundation.--Gospel Workers, pp. 226, 227. (1892) {Ev 596.3}

False Doctrine--It Makes No Difference What You Believe.--There are many whose religion consists in theory. To them a happy emotion is godliness. They say, "Come to Jesus, and believe in Him. It makes no difference what you believe so long as you are honest in your belief." They do not seek to make the sinner understand the true character of sin. . . . {Ev 597.1}

Satan is willing that every transgressor of God's law shall claim to be holy. This is what he himself is doing. He is satisfied when men rest their faith on spurious doctrines and religious enthusiasm; for he can use such persons to good purpose in deceiving souls. There are many professedly sanctified ones who are aiding Satan in his work. They talk much of feeling; they speak of their love for God. But God does not recognize their love; for it is a delusion of the enemy. God has given these persons light, but they have refused to accept it. With the father of lies, they will receive the reward of disobedience.--Review and Herald, June 26, 1900. {Ev 597.2}

Another Error--Commandments Done Away.-- Christ warns His followers, "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." He exhorts us not to be deceived when false shepherds present their doctrines. These men tell us that the commandments of God were done away at the death of Christ. Shall we believe them, these men who claim to be sanctified, while they refuse to obey God? They say the Lord has told them that they need not keep the Ten Commandments; but has the Lord told them this? No, God does not lie. {Ev 597.3}

Satan, who is the father of lies, deceived Adam in a similar way, telling him that he need not obey God, that he would not die if he transgressed the law. But Adam fell, and by his sin he opened the floodgates of woe upon our world. Again, Satan told Cain that he need not follow expressly the command of God in presenting the slain lamb as an offering. Cain obeyed the voice of the deceiver; and because God did not accept his offering, while He showed His approval of Abel's offering, Cain rose up in anger and slew his brother. {Ev 598.1

We need to know for ourselves what voice we are heeding, whether it is the voice of the true and living God or the voice of the great apostate. . . . {Ev 598.2}

When type met antitype in the death of Christ, the sacrificial offering ceased. The ceremonial law was done away. But by the crucifixion the law of Ten Commandments was established. The gospel has not abrogated the law, nor detracted one tittle from its claims. It still demands holiness in every part. It is the echo of God's own voice, giving to every soul the invitation, Come up higher. Be holy, holier still.-- Review and Herald, June 26, 1900. {Ev 598.3}

A Timely Caution.--We as a people have fallen into the opposite error. We acknowledge the claims of God's law, and teach the people the duty of rendering obedience. We believe in giving everything, but we do not see that we must take as well as give. We fail to have that trust, that faith, which keeps the soul abiding in Christ. We claim little, when we might claim much; for there is no limit to the promises of God. {Ev 598.4}

Through a lack of faith, many who seek to obey the commandments of God have little peace and joy; they do not correctly represent the sanctification that is to come through obedience to the truth. They are not anchored in Christ. Many feel a lack in their experience; they desire something which they have not; and thus some are led to attend holiness meetings, and are charmed with the sentiments of those who break the law of God. {Ev 599.1}

It is our duty to preach faith, to present the love of Christ in connection with the claims of the law; for neither can be rightly understood without the other. In every discourse the love of God, as manifested in Christ, the sinner's only hope, should be dwelt upon until the people realize something of its power and preciousness. If this is done as it should be, it will not be said of this people that they teach the law but do not believe in repentance, faith, and conversion. We want these subjects to be blended as God has blended them; then will the truth be presented in its completeness, not as a mere theory, but as a power that will transform the character. It will then be preached in demonstration of the Spirit and with power. Then those who have accepted the doctrines of the Bible will not be unfed; they will feel the vivifying influence of the Holy Spirit.--Gospel Workers, pp. 227, 228. (1892) {Ev 599.2}

Very good council for bringing and teaching, preaching the gospel!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Robert]

The gospel is not what Christ does in you....That work is always incomplete. If not, then we could claim to be without sin, but John takes aim at such an attitude:

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin (i.e., we are perfect in performance), we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.

The gospel is what Christ did in our humanity 2000 years ago. It's the birth, life, death and resurrection of Christ as the Son of Mankind. Any addition to this truth is anti-christ!

[cheddar]

Originally Posted By: Samie

God through Christ, in the 1st dimension, saved all from sin and enabled all to be able to overcome, but only those who, in the 2nd dimension, prove themselves overcomers by their positive response to the leading of the Holy Spirit, will, in the third dimension, be rewarded with life eternal.

This statement is anti-gospel...it's anti-christ. In other words it's legalistic and belongs to the Old Covenant.

This is not anti-christ or anti-gospel.

He is showing both sides of the gospel which is a balanced picture - What Christ did 2000 years ago for all mankind and what Christ does today in the life of each believer.

Like it or not we do have to make a response to the gospel and the acceptable response is believing the good news. Focusing exclusively on what Christ did 2000 years ago will lead to universalism or universal reconciliation.

[Gibs]

True, all of us have sin,

1Jo 1:8 ¶ If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

The gospel spells out the way that our past sin is covered by his righteousness, and then,

Ro 6:1 ¶ What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

Ro 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Ro 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Ro 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

We are to become new men in Him but dead of the old man of sin.

None can have any excuse,

Php 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Robert]

He is showing both sides of the gospel which is a balanced picture - ....

There's only one gospel that fully qualifies believing sinners for heaven, now and in the judgement. And it is the truth as it is "in Christ".

Any gospel that fails to answer the following question is no gospel at at all:

How can God justify the ungodly [Romans 4:5] and still maintain His integrity to His holy law which condemns sinners [Galatians 3:10]?

[Woody]

The gospel is not what Christ does in you....That work is always incomplete. If not, then we could claim to be without sin, but John takes aim at such an attitude:

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin (i.e., we are perfect in performance), we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.

The gospel is what Christ did in our humanity 2000 years ago. It's the birth, life, death and resurrection of Christ as the Son of Mankind. Any addition to this truth is anti-christ!

This says it all in a nutshell. Well put Robert.

[Robert]

True, all of us have sin,

1Jo 1:8 ¶ If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

The gospel spells out the way that our past sin is covered by his righteousness...

Let's try to be honest with your quote....It's not referring to past sin...it's referring to current sin. What John is stating is if any believer claims to be perfect in his current walk with God that he is a liar and deceived.

-BC- GC11

-TI- The Great Controversy

-CN- 27

-CT- Modern Revivals

-PR- 02

-PG- 471

When Job heard the voice of the Lord out of the whirlwind, he exclaimed: “I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.” Job 42:6. It was when Isaiah saw the glory of the Lord, and heard the cherubim crying, “Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord of hosts,” that he cried out, “Woe is me! for I am undone.” Isaiah 6:3, 5. Paul, after he was caught up into the third heaven and heard things which it was not possible for a man to utter, speaks of himself as “less than the least of all saints.” 2 Corinthians 12:2-4, margin; Ephesians 3:8. It was the beloved John, who leaned on Jesus’ breast and beheld His glory, that fell as one dead before the feet of the angel. Revelation 1:17.

There can be no self-exaltation, no boastful claim to freedom from sin , on the part of those who walk in the shadow of Calvary’s cross. They feel that it was their sin which caused the agony that broke the heart of the Son of God, and this thought will lead them to self-abasement. Those who live nearest to Jesus discern most clearly the frailty and sinfulness of humanity, and their only hope is in the merit of a crucified and risen Saviour.

RH Sep 25, 1900

Many see much to admire in the life of Christ. But true love for him can never dwell in the heart of the self-righteous. Not to see our own deformity is not to see the beauty of Christ’s character. When we are fully awake to our own sinfulness, we shall appreciate Christ. The more humble are our views of ourselves, the more clearly we shall see the spotless character of Jesus. He who says, “I am holy, I am sinless,” is self-deceived. Some have said this, and some even dare to say, “I am Christ.” To entertain such a thought is blasphemy. Not to see the marked contrast between Christ and ourselves is not to know ourselves. He who does not abhor himself can not understand the meaning of redemption.

[cheddar]

There's only one gospel that fully qualifies believing sinners for heaven, now and in the judgement. And it is the truth as it is "in Christ".

Any gospel that fails to answer the following question is no gospel at at all:

How can God justify the ungodly [Romans 4:5] and still maintain His integrity to His holy law which condemns sinners [Galatians 3:10]?

You’re bringing out topics that were not even in the discussion.

Samie was bringing out the three phases of the gospel which are justification, sanctification and glorification. None of which are anti-gospel.

You are like so many that I know who live and die by what Paul said and ignore the rest of the NT authors.

I agree with what Paul said but I also agree with what John and Peter and even James says. What do you do with the book of Revelation where all the blessings go to the overcomers? Samie didn’t say those words, Jesus Christ did so if you have a problem with it then you need to take it up with him.

And I’m not talking about Gib’s and EGW’s legalistic overcoming that always end in failure. I’m talking about us having the same faith that Jesus had.

[Robert]

Let's look at the fruit of the gospel - growing in grace - sanctification:

The religious services, the prayers, the praise, the penitent confession of sin ascend from true believers as incense to the heavenly sanctuary; but passing through the corrupt channels of humanity, they are so defiled that unless purified by blood, they can never be of value with God.

What does EGW mean by our works being defiled. Keep in mind her statement elsewhere:

"...when the light from Christ shines into our souls, we shall see how impure we are; we shall discern the selfishness of motive, the enmity against God, that has defiled every act of life." [sC 28]

That's because God's law requires your motives to be perfect:

"The law of Jehovah is exceedingly broad. Jesus . . . plainly declared to His disciples that this holy law of God may be violated in even the thoughts and feelings and desires, as well as in the word and deed." [OHC 140]

Okay, that's what she means. Let's continue:

They ascend not in spotless purity, and unless the Intercessor who is at God’s right hand presents and purifies all by His righteousness, it is not acceptable to God. All incense from earthly tabernacles must be moist with the cleansing drops of the blood of Christ. He holds before the Father the censer of His own merits, in which there is no taint of earthly corruption. He gathers into this censer the prayers, the praise, and the confessions of His people, and with these He puts His own spotless righteousness. Then, perfumed with the merits of Christ’s propitiation, the incense comes up before God wholly and entirely acceptable. Then gracious answers are returned.

O, that all may see that everything in obedience (all we do), in penitence, in praise and thanksgiving must be placed upon the glowing fire of the righteousness of Christ. The fragrance of this righteousness ascends like a cloud around the mercy seat (MS 50, 1900).

In other words even our obedience falls short and must be covered by Christ's righteousness. This doesn't infer we should live for the flesh...it just shows that ultimately it is the "imputed righteousness of Christ" that saves us.

[Woody]

Excellent Points Robert.

[Robert]

Samie was bringing out the three phases of the gospel which are justification, sanctification and glorification.

The gospel is what Christ did in our humanity. In Him you are justified, sanctified and glorified:

1 cor 1:30 And because of him (God the Father) you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption (i.e., glorification).

Justification: Romans 3:11 But now a righteousness from God, apart from law (i.e., apart from your law keeping), has been made known, to which the Law (Torah) and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

Sanctification: Hebrews 10:9 Then He (Jesus) said, "BEHOLD, I HAVE COME TO DO YOUR WILL." He takes away the first in order to establish the second. 10 By this will (Christ's doing & dying) we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Glorification: Eph 2:4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved ), 6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

[jasd]

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Lu 22:20 ...This cup [is] the new testament (covenant) in my blood, which is shed for you.

Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

[...]

Heb 7:18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

Heb 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope* [did]; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

* expectation

Jn 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

Therefore,

1 Cor 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

Jn 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth* on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

* trust

Oh, sinner man!--the New Covenant proves the fulfillment of your expectation of eternal life -- in/by Jesus Christ who was crucified. That's it.

That is Good News...

[wayfinder]

Matthew 24:14 NAS

"This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.

Matthew 4:23 NAS

Jesus was going throughout all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues and proclaiming the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every kind of disease and every kind of sickness among the people.

Matthew 28

16 But the eleven disciples proceeded to Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had designated. 17 When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some were doubtful. 18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.19"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,20teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always , even to the end of the age."

Anything that is at varience with the teaching of the Son of God is a false "gospel". His word,as testified to by His disciples, is the standard of truth in this world, the gospel of the kingdom.

[Guest]

But wayfinder, your gospel is at variance with what Jesus said, in all kinds of ways. So by your own definition, it's a false gospel.

Your gospel says things that Jesus never said, as though He did. And in other cases, doesn't say some things that Jesus did say, as though He didn't.

[Samie]

Originally Posted By: Robert

There's only one gospel that fully qualifies believing sinners for heaven, now and in the judgement. And it is the truth as it is "in Christ".

Any gospel that fails to answer the following question is no gospel at at all:

How can God justify the ungodly [Romans 4:5] and still maintain His integrity to His holy law which condemns sinners [Galatians 3:10]?

You’re bringing out topics that were not even in the discussion.

Samie was bringing out the three phases of the gospel which are justification, sanctification and glorification. None of which are anti-gospel.

You are like so many that I know who live and die by what Paul said and ignore the rest of the NT authors.

I agree with what Paul said but I also agree with what John and Peter and even James says. What do you do with the book of Revelation where all the blessings go to the overcomers? Samie didn’t say those words, Jesus Christ did so if you have a problem with it then you need to take it up with him.

And I’m not talking about Gib’s and EGW’s legalistic overcoming that always end in failure. I’m talking about us having the same faith that Jesus had.

[Samie]

Originally Posted By: Samie

God through Christ, in the 1st dimension, saved all from sin and enabled all to be able to overcome, but only those who, in the 2nd dimension, prove themselves overcomers by their positive response to the leading of the Holy Spirit, will, in the third dimension, be rewarded with life eternal.

This statement is anti-gospel...it's anti-christ. In other words it's legalistic and belongs to the Old Covenant.

[Robert]

all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God

"and fall short" is in the present, continuous tense. In other words you have a past record of failure (sin) and you are failing to live Christ's life of agape love to its fullest. That's what "the glory of God" is:

Ex 33:18 Then Moses said, "I pray You, show me Your glory !" 19 And He said, "I Myself will make all My goodness pass before you...."

It will be seen that the glory shining in the face of Jesus is the glory of self-sacrificing love. In the light from Calvary it will be seen that the law of self-renouncing love is the law of life for earth and heaven; that the love which “seeketh not her own” has its source in the heart of God. . . .(Our Father Cares, p. 200.)

[wayfinder]

Richard, please show me the evidence of the error of my understanding. You told me at least a year ago you were going to show me evidence, I am still waiting to see it.

[Samie]

Originally Posted By: Samie

all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God

"and fall short" is in the present, continuous tense. In other words you have a past record of failure (sin) and you are failing to live Christ's life of agape love to its fullest. That's what "the glory of God" is:

Ex 33:18 Then Moses said, "I pray You, show me Your glory !" 19 And He said, "I Myself will make all My goodness pass before you...."

It will be seen that the glory shining in the face of Jesus is the glory of self-sacrificing love. In the light from Calvary it will be seen that the law of self-renouncing love is the law of life for earth and heaven; that the love which “seeketh not her own” has its source in the heart of God. . . .(Our Father Cares, p. 200.)

That's your proof why you said my statement "God, through Christ, in the first dimension, saved all from sin" is anti-gospel and anti-christ? You have just proven it's your position that is anti-gospel and anti-christ.

Next time, brother, be sure you have biblical basis before issuing poignant statements. It could boomerang against your position as what just happened now.