Speaking of "Ordination"

[teresaq]

Is there any record of James White, Bates, and our other early pioneers having been ordained? If they were it must have been an interesting ceremony. A group of unordained ordaining each other.

[CoAspen]

Interesting question, who was the first ordinator and who ordained them?

[Woody]

they were ordained by the previous church that they belonged to. I assume it goes back to the ordination of Adam and Eve. :)

[teresaq]

I understood that when a person either leaves a church, or is "disfellowshipped", that they then lose that ordination. Pipim is not still ordained, is he?

Interesting thought about Adam and Eve. :)

[CoAspen]

But who ordained the first ordainer?

Adam and EVE?

[teresaq]

Someone supplied me with a couple of sources. According to Loughborough in Miracles in My Life p.39 in 1854 he was ordained saying it was "the first service of this kind among SDAs". But, in 1853, there was an ordination ceremony for Andrews and a couple of others recorded in November 15th,1853 Review & Herald.

I'm not sure what the perceived difference was to Loughborough.

It has been stated that J. White was an ordained minister in the Christian Connexion church, but I haven't come across any statement to that effect by him in his autobiographies. Yet.

What I have read so far was that he felt called and went, consulting with neither the Christian Connexion church nor the Millerite Advent movement which he was preaching. He just went, first praying with people. Then acquired the materials he needed to learn the Millerite Message and off he went again.

[Woody]

Trouble is: There was no SDA church until 1863. So I am not sure how the above could be true.

[teresaq]

Why do you think that? Wouldn't Loughborough know since he was there?

[Tom Wetmore]

I think that what the 1853 ordination suggests is that one does not need the blessing and authorization of an organized church to ordain someone.

[phkrause]

From my point of view, God ordains each and every one of us. To witness for him by the way we live in this world, conduct ourselves at work, etc. I didn't hear him say be ordained than go and preach to all the world!

[Woody]

They didn't come up with the name SDA till 1863. So - I don't believe the name SDA would have been used teresa.

[Woody]

@ TOM

[teresaq]

Nice point, PK.

[teresaq]

How organized was the SDA church at that time? Does settling on a formal name make a church organized? Or does the study and prayer done at the beginning til they were in union constitute "organization"?

[Woody]

Many fought the idea of 'organization'.

[teresaq]

James White was ordained about 1843 by ministers of the Christian Connexion church. It is not clear, tho, whether it was as a Christian Connexion church minister or the Advent movement minister (if there was such a thing).

The point being that he was ordained. But does that count when one leaves one's denomination for another denomination, or is disfellowshipped? Was it different then? If an ordained pastor/minister/reverend/etc., from another denomination comes into our ranks do they retain their former ordination, now?

[Woody]

Excellent question about James White not being ordained in the SDA church - but rather he kind of transferred his ordination from his previous church. I don't know if they can still do that or not. Anyone know?

[teresaq]

I understand that they fought the idea of organization as it was in other churches, but there was still "organization", as in doctrine and other.

[teresaq]

Not according to the SDA manual...

The question is, did they do they do that then?

[Woody]

I suspect they were 'grandfathered' and 'grandmothered' in. :)

[teresaq]

:)