A Call for Revival, Repentance & Reformation

[skyblue888]

"The Reformation did not and does not consist in exposure and denunciation of the iniquities of the Roman Church. It was there as an incident, as an indispensible part of it, but it was not the message itself... If exposure and denunciation of the iniquities of that church could have wrought revival and reformation, then the Reformation would have been in the world more than 500 years before it was.

There had been no want of men who saw the wrongs in the church, who feared the ultimate outworkings of those wrongs, and who were not afraid to raise their voices in protest and denunciation of what they saw. They included popes, bishops, priests, laymen and princes who for 500 years before the Reformation began, rose up one after the other and spoke forth their mind on the wrongs they saw, but it is the solemn and clear fact of history that not one of them alone or all of them together, ever even began to work reformation in the Roman Church. But when man arose with the living Gospel and preached that, then the reformation had begun and with it the skaking and the persecution which most inevitably must follow." A.T. Jones, Lessons from the Reformation,102,103.

[Nic Samojluk]

"The Reformation did not and does not consist in exposure and denunciation of the iniquities of the Roman Church. It was there as an incident, as an indispensible part of it, but it was not the message itself... If exposure and denunciation of the iniquities of that church could have wrought revival and reformation, then the Reformation would have been in the world more than 500 years before it was.

There had been no want of men who saw the wrongs in the church, who feared the ultimate outworkings of those wrongs, and who were not afraid to raise their voices in protest and denunciation of what they saw. They included popes, bishops, priests, laymen and princes who for 500 years before the Reformation began, rose up one after the other and spoke forth their mind on the wrongs they saw, but it is the solemn and clear fact of history that not one of them alone or all of them together, ever even began to work reformation in the Roman Church. But when man arose with the living Gospel and preached that, then the reformation had begun and with it the skaking and the persecution which most inevitably must follow." A.T. Jones, Lessons from the Reformation,102,103.

Am I to conclude that the Adventist Church is not preaching the true Gospel? Is this the reason the Adventist Health System is doctoring the record of patients and employees as alleged by Patricia Moleski, the Adventist whistleblower?

How can this criminal activity be stopped? Are you saying that whistleblowing is worthless? Would slavery have been done away with without the whistleblowing of Wilberforce and others like him? Did the work of reformers include whistleblowing or not? How about the work of the Old Testament prophets?

[skyblue888]

What A.T. Jones stated above is confirmed by the following statements from the SoP. It applies to all churches including the SDA church:

"The way to dispel darkness is to admit light. The best way to deal with error is to present the truth. It is the revelation of God`s love that makes manifest the deformity and sin of the heart centered in self." Desire of Ages,498.

"The only remedy is belief in the truth, acceptance of the light." T.M.91.

"God has jewels in all the churches, and it is not for us to make sweeping denunciations of the professed religious world, but in humility and love, present to all the truth as it is in Jesus. Let man see piety and devotion, let them behold Christlikeness of character, and they will be drawn to the truth. He who loves God supremely and his neighbour as himself, will be a light in the world. Those who have a knowledge of the truth are to communicate the same. They are to lift up Jesus, the world`s Redeemer; they are to hold forth the Word of life." E.G. White, 4 B.C.1184.

The very fact that you are pointing to the wrongs of the church implies that you believe that the church has lost sight of the true Gospel and it is true that the church has lost sight of the true gospel as it was sent to her by the Lord between 1888 and 1901, hence the need for that message to be proclaimed again in latter rain power. It is not a message of denunciation but the invitation to receive the righteousness of Christ obtained through faith in the merits of His infinite sacrifice.

Let us look at Jones' statement again:

"There had been no want of men who saw the wrongs in the church, who feared the ultimate outworkings of those wrongs, and who were not afraid to raise their voices in protest and denunciation of what they saw. They included popes, bishops, priests, laymen and princes who for 500 years before the Reformation began, rose up one after the other and spoke forth their mind on the wrongs they saw, but it is the solemn and clear fact of history that not one of them alone or all of them together, ever even began to work reformation in the Roman Church. But when men arose with the living Gospel and preached that, then the REFORMATION had begun and with it the SHAKING and the persecution which most inevitably must follow." A.T. Jones.

In just the same way the preaching of the Laodicean message in demonstration and power of the Holy Spirit will accomplish a work of decided revival and reformation and a clear cut shaking because it will be the preaching, not of denunciation of wrong primarily, but of the everlasting gospel. The message itself tells us that. Look again and see what it really does say,

"The message given by A.T. Jones and E.J. Waggoner is the message of God to the Laodicean church.' E.G. White, LetterS-24, 1892.

Here, in a nutshell, is that message:

"How long will you hate and despise the messengers of God`s righteousness? God has given them HIS MESSAGE. They bear the Word of the Lord: There is SALVATION for you but ONLY through the MERITS of Jesus Christ. The grace of the Holy Spirit has been offered to you again and again." Testimonies to Ministers,96,97.

"God will accept everyone that comes to Him trusting wholly in the merits of a crucified Saviour. Love springs up in the heart. There may me no ecstasy of feeling but there is an abiding, peaceful trust." 1 S.M.354.

What is that love?

"The gold tried in the fire is faith that works by LOVE. Only this can bring us into harmony with God. We may be active, we may do much work; but WITHOUT LOVE, SUCH LOVE AS DWELT IN THE HEART OF CHRIST, we can never be numbered with the family of Heaven." C.O.L.158.

This is the straight testimony to the Laodicean church. It is not a message of denunciation primarily but an invitation to daily lay hold upon the merits of a crucified and risen Saviour that the love that dwelt in His heart may dwell in the hearts of His people. Then there will be a revival of privitive faith and godliness followed by a reformation.

These statements prove then that this message was the message sent to the Laodicean church in 1888 and in the succeeding years until 1901. Many rose up against it and succeeded in stifling the counsel of the True Witness, but the promise was that it would come again and when it did it would accomplish a shaking among the people of God. That time has come. It will go to the highways and byways of the church first and then will swell into the Loud Cry to the world.

Soon will that bring upon the wise and the foolish virgins the fearful storm of persecution and trouble which shall divide the wheat from the tares and the good from the bad fish, and their destiny will be forever fixed.

sky

[Overaged]

The very fact that you are pointing to the wrongs of the church implies that you believe that the church has lost sight of the true Gospel and it is true that the church has lost sight of the true gospel as it was sent to her by the Lord in 1888, hence the need for that message to be proclaimed again in latter rain power. It is not a message of denunciation but the invitation to receive the righteousness of Christ obtained through faith in the merits of His infinite sacrifice.

I believe it is very wrong to say this about the Church. It is not true. After hearing it for years; I dont believe it anymore. It is a tired, yet insistent message filled with unholy theology that has more to do with darkness, than light. I don't care how many quotes you heap around it, you can't prove this about the church, because I have personally seen differently.

[skyblue888]

Over, you are entitled to your opinion but I prefer to rely upon the Scriptures and the testimonies of God's Spirit.

We need to study the parable of Matt.22 more closely for Jesus spoke that parable more for our time beginning with 1844 than for the Jews.

In this parable the Lord delineated for us events to take place within our ranks before the message goes to the world as represented by the third call of the parable.

sky

[Overaged]

Over, you are entitled to your opinion but I prefer to rely upon the Scriptures and the testimonies of God's Spirit.

We need to study the parable of Matt.22 more closely for Jesus spoke that parable more for our time beginning with 1844 than for the Jews.

In this parable the Lord delineated for us events to take place within our ranks before the message goes to the world as represented by the third call of the parable.

sky

But Jesus didn't say that the whole Church lost sight of the gospel. So yes; I will rely on the testimony of Scripture

[Overaged]

Quote:

The Thessalonian believers were greatly annoyed by men coming among them with fanatical ideas and doctrines. Some were "disorderly, working not at all, but . . . busy-bodies." The church had been properly organized, and officers had been appointed to act as ministers and deacons. But there were some, self-willed and impetuous, who refused to be subordinate to those who held positions of authority in the church. They claimed not only the right of private judgment, but that of publicly urging their views upon the church. In view of this, Paul called the attention of the Thessalonians to the respect and deference due to those who had been chosen to occupy positions of authority in the church. {AA 261.3}

What the church REALLY NEEDS is for the constant stream of people appointing themselves as "special messengers" to the remnant to drop their guns with their "hundreds of quotes," and get on board the ship and do what we were ALL called to do.

[skyblue888]

The church today is in no better position than the Jewish church was in the days of Christ. I am sure you have been aware, all these years, that there are many testimonies to the effect that as a people we are repeating that history.

In 1903 Mrs. White stated that there was not one in one hundred who understood for himself the Bible truth on this subject that is so necessary to our present and eternal welfare. See 1 S.M.360.

She made that assessment after years of the church having received abundant light. She also stated that if the light had been received, believed, and acted upon the Lord would have finished the work upon the earth.

I believe we are living in the time of the second call of the parable of Matt.22 to the Advent people. The 1888 message of the reception of the righteousness of Christ through faith in the merits of His infinite sacrifice is to be repeated with mighty power. Once it shall have done its work within our ranks it will go to the world and it will swell into the loud cry.

sky

*but i do agree with you that there are too many so-called messengers, too many voices calling for our attention, but it is to be expected, dont u think?

[Overaged]

The church today is in no better position than the Jewish church was in the days of Christ. I am sure you have been aware, all these years, that there are many testimonies to the effect that as a people we are repeating that history.

[Nic Samojluk]

When Achan coveted the forbidden piece of gold and hid it in his tent, the Lord punished the entire congregation for this sin. The same sin--love of profit--is evident from the testimony of Patricia Moleski.

God cannot continue blessing his Remnant people when such terrible sin is tolerated by his people. This sin must be confessed and repented of before God blessing is again granted his people.

[skyblue888]

Let us not forget that Israel was under a Theocracy which meant that God was not only ruling over spiritual affairs but over civil affairs as well. The true Christian church is not a theocracy and that makes all the difference.

sky

[skyblue888]

When Achan coveted the forbidden piece of gold and hid it in his tent, the Lord punished the entire congregation for this sin. The same sin--love of profit--is evident from the testimony of Patricia Moleski.

God cannot continue blessing his Remnant people when such terrible sin is tolerated by his people. This sin must be confessed and repented of before God blessing is again granted his people.

The Jewish church was in the same dire condition when Christ began His ministry and look how willing God was to bless His professed people if they would accept the light brought to them through Christ and afterward through His disciples at Pentecost and after Pentecost even though they had just crucified the Lord.

Can we not see what our work is from the history of the past?

Similarly, the Reformers's work in the sixteenth century did not consist in attacking the church but to bring the light of the Gospel within the reach of all.

sky

[skyblue888]

"At the time of the first advent of Christ to our world, the men who composed the Sanhedrin exercised their authority in controlling men according to their will. Thus the souls of men whom Christ had given His life to free from bondage of Satan were brought under bondage to him in another way." T.M.361.

But Jesus did not go out of His way to denounce this lording it over God's heritage. He went about doing good and teaching the truth and by the truth that He taught the wrongs were exposed for what they were. If the truth had been accepted there would have been a revival and a reformation the like of which had never been seen in the world until that time.

It is the same today. We are repeating their history.

"The high-handed power that has been developed, as though position has made men gods makes me afraid and ought to cause fear. It is a curse wherever and by whomsoever it is exercised. This lording it over God's heritage will create such a disgust of man's jurisdiction that a state of insubordination will result." Ibid.

This order of things has been with us for more than a century.

So for years and years we have been expecting a revival and a reformation. We need to pray for this more than ever before. If those in authority refuse the light the Lord will raise up men who will give the people the message for this time.

"'I have set before you an open door, and no man can shut it.' Even if all the leading men should refuse light and truth, that door will still remain open. The Lord will raise up men who will give the people the message for this time." T.M.107.

sky

[Nic Samojluk]

Similarly, the Reformers's work in the sixteenth century did not consist in attacking the church but to bring the light of the Gospel within the reach of all.

It looks like you are overlooking certain key passages of Scripture. The good news of the Gospel includes a warning to sinners in order that they may repent and be forgiven of their sins. That was the message of the prophets, of John the Baptist, and Jesus Christ.

1The word of the LORD came to me: 2“Son of man, set your face against the mountains of Israel; prophesy against them 3and say: ‘O mountains of Israel, hear the word of the Sovereign LORD. This is what the Sovereign LORD says to the mountains and hills, to the ravines and valleys: I am about to bring a sword against you, and I will destroy your high places. [Ezek. 6]

1The word of the LORD came to me: 2“Son of man, speak to your countrymen and say to them: ‘When I bring the sword against a land, and the people of the land choose one of their men and make him their watchman, 3and he sees the sword coming against the land and blows the trumpet to warn the people, 4then if anyone hears the trumpet but does not take warning and the sword comes and takes his life, his blood will be on his own head. 5Since he heard the sound of the trumpet but did not take warning, his blood will be on his own head. If he had taken warning, he would have saved himself. 6But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet to warn the people and the sword comes and takes the life of one of them, that man will be taken away because of his sin, but I will hold the watchman accountable for his blood.’

7“Son of man, I have made you a watchman for the house of Israel; so hear the word I speak and give them warning from me. 8When I say to the wicked, ‘O wicked man, you will surely die,’ and you do not speak out to dissuade him from his ways, that wicked man will die fora his sin, and I will hold you accountable for his blood. 9But if you do warn the wicked man to turn from his ways and he does not do so, he will die for his sin, but you will have saved yourself. [Ezek. 33]

[skyblue888]

What we fail to understand is that the Laodicean message is the Gospel of the righteousness of Christ and it itself is a warming for the righteousness of Christ exposes our lamentable condition.

sky

[Nic Samojluk]

But Jesus did not go out of His way to denounce this lording it over God's heritage. He went about doing good and teaching the truth and by the truth that He taught the wrongs were exposed for what they were. If the truth had been accepted there would have been a revival and a reformation the like of which had never been seen in the world until that time.

Yes, Jesus spent most of his time healing the sick as we do, but he had a stern warning message to those who ignored the requirements of “justice, mercy and faithfulness”:

23“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.

Our Adventist Health System [AHS] managers are routinely ignoring the rights of patients and employees, according to Patricia Moleski, engaging in criminal activity by deleting adverse events taking place in our hospitals in order to augment the hospital profit and their yearly bonuses, and you are telling me that we should ignore this?

And, by the way, the service Jesus rendered to the sick was free. How does this compare with the high salaries of our AHS CEO’s?

[skyblue888]

Nic, there is nothing new under the sun. We are repeating history but I am convinced that the last message to the church and to the world is a message of mercy, not of condemnation. If that message is received, believed, and acted upon it will bring a personal revival and reformation in the life. But its rejection will be our condemnation.

sky

[Nic Samojluk]

Nic, there is nothing new under the sun. We are repeating history but I am convinced that the last message to the church and to the world is a message of mercy, not of condemnation. If that message is received, believed, and acted upon it will bring a personal revival and reformation in the life. But its rejection will be our condemnation.

Yes, but God's mercy is for the repentant and penitent like the adulterous woman. Jesus had the strongest condemnation for the Pharisees who persisted in their sins. Read Matthew 23!

[skyblue888]

Repentance will be the fruit of accepting that message of mercy which is the invitation to accept the righteousness of Christ through faith in His all-sufficient merits. Christ`s righteousness imparts all the powers, all the grace, all the repentance, all the inclination, all the pardon of sins... see F.W.24.

God bless,

sky

[Gerr]

I suggest we all write to the GC president and voice our opposition to abortion on demand, that it should be limited only to certain cases.

[Nic Samojluk]

skyblue888 wrote:

“Repentance will be the fruit of accepting that message of mercy which is the invitation to accept the righteousness of Christ through faith in His all-sufficient merits. Christ`s righteousness imparts all the powers, all the grace, all the repentance, all the inclination, all the pardon of sins... see F.W.24.”

Yes, but the message of mercy includes a warning of what will happen if the recipient refuses to repent. Are you suggesting that said warning is not needed? Notice what the Lord told Ezekiel about this:

7“Son of man, I have made you a watchman for the house of Israel; so hear the word I speak and give them warning from me. 8When I say to the wicked, ‘O wicked man, you will surely die,’ and you do not speak out to dissuade him from his ways, that wicked man will die fora his sin, and I will hold you accountable for his blood. 9But if you do warn the wicked man to turn from his ways and he does not do so, he will die for his sin, but you will have saved yourself.

10“Son of man, say to the house of Israel, ‘This is what you are saying: “Our offenses and sins weigh us down, and we are wasting away because ofb them. How then can we live?”’ 11Say to them, ‘As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die, O house of Israel?’

Notice the serious consequences to the messenger if he fails to transmit the warning to those who have have turned aside from the right path.

[Nic Samojluk]

I suggest we all write to the GC president and voice our opposition to abortion on demand, that it should be limited only to certain cases.

That sounds great. I have done that already. I have written several times to the General Conference. Unfortunately, no one bothers to respond. I have written to Ted Wilson and to Dr. Handysides. Over a year has gone by and I am still waiting for them to at least acknowledge my letters.

If more people would take the time to do this, perhaps someone will bother to respond. I have come to the conclusion that the General Conference does not deserve to continue receiving my tithes and offerings. I have started sending my tithes and offering to alternate places like The Quiet Hour and to our church in foreign countries where abortion on demand is illegal.

I know of several pro-life Adventists who have left the Adventist community because of its toleration of elective abortions in our own medical institutions. Some have started their own ministries, some have joined other denominations including the Catholic Church. This is regrettable. I prefer to stay with the Remnant Church while doing what I can to win it back to the right path. This is what Jeremiah of old did.

[skyblue888]

skyblue888 wrote:

“Repentance will be the fruit of accepting that message of mercy which is the invitation to accept the righteousness of Christ through faith in His all-sufficient merits. Christ`s righteousness imparts all the powers, all the grace, all the repentance, all the inclination, all the pardon of sins... see F.W.24.”

Yes, but the message of mercy includes a warning of what will happen if the recipient refuses to repent. Are you suggesting that said warning is not needed? Notice what the Lord told Ezekiel about this:

7“Son of man, I have made you a watchman for the house of Israel; so hear the word I speak and give them warning from me. 8When I say to the wicked, ‘O wicked man, you will surely die,’ and you do not speak out to dissuade him from his ways, that wicked man will die fora his sin, and I will hold you accountable for his blood. 9But if you do warn the wicked man to turn from his ways and he does not do so, he will die for his sin, but you will have saved yourself.

10“Son of man, say to the house of Israel, ‘This is what you are saying: “Our offenses and sins weigh us down, and we are wasting away because ofb them. How then can we live?”’ 11Say to them, ‘As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die, O house of Israel?’

Notice the serious consequences to the messenger if he fails to transmit the warning to those who have have turned aside from the right path.

Yes, Nic, I have been familiar with these words over the years and I believe, like you, that they were written more for us than for the Isrealites.

Here is how I understand them to be saying.

The Lord knows all the inconsistencies, iniquities, and even the abominations that are in the church today. For that reason, He desires to bring a revival and a reformation. But He cannot do it unless He can find human agents to proclaim the living message of righteousness.

In 1888, the Lord, through Mrs. White, clearly stated what the true remedy is. This prescription from the great Physician, if received, believed, and acted upon, will bring that revival and reformation so needed in our lives. It is such a simple remedy that very few seem to be paying attention to it:

"Faith is the condition upon which God has seen fit to promise pardon to sinners. Not that there is any virtue in faith whereby salvation is merited, but because faith can lay hold of the merits of Christ, the REMEDY provided for SIN." Faith & Works,100,101.

We lay hold of the merits of Christ, the remedy provided for sin, by claiming them, (T.M.93) and that is faith, even living faith (F.W.64) which means an increase of vigor, a confiding trust, by which the soul becomes a conquering power. (D.A.347)

I believe this is how the Lord intends to bring a revival and a reformation, by proclaiming this simple message in demonstration and power of the Holy Spirit through consecrated human agents.

This simple message of mercy, if received, believed, and acted upon, will be an influence for life, courage, and true healing. If resisted by the professed people of God, the Lord will extend the invitation to other peoples and the message will swell to the loud cry to the world and we will be left behind.

sky

[Nic Samojluk]

skyblue888 wrote:

“This prescription from the great Physician, if received, believed, and acted upon, will bring that revival and reformation so needed in our lives. It is such a simple remedy that very few seem to be paying attention to it:”

This is surely one remedy for sin, but does this mean that the same treatment is appropriate under all circumstances? Did Jesus use the same approach in his treatment of sinners? Think about how he responded to the needs of the Samaritan woman, Nicodemus, the rich ruler, the woman caught in adultery, and the Pharisees and Sadducees?

To the rich ruler he said he must sell all his possessions, but to Nicodemus he stated that he needed to be born again. To the woman caught in adultery he said he did not condemn her, but to the Pharisees he uttered the strongest condemnation.

Did you read the long list of accusations he made against them in Matthew 23? Was this inappropriate?

13“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.

15“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.

16“Woe to you, blind guides! You say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.’ 17You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred? 18You also say, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gift on it, he is bound by his oath.’

19You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20Therefore, he who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. 21And he who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it. 22And he who swears by heaven swears by God’s throne and by the one who sits on it.

23“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.

24You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.

25“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.

27“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men’s bones and everything unclean. 28In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.

29“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. 30And you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our forefathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32Fill up, then, the measure of the sin of your forefathers!

33“You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? 34Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. 35And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.

I cannot accept the theory that one size fits all. This reminds me of the quack who had only one prescription for all his patients regardless of their maladies.

[skyblue888]

Yes I am well aware of these words but that does not take away the fact that they were spoken to those who were making light of the last message of mercy to the Jewish people and doing all in their power to prevent others from receiving that message.

sky