Thoughts about WO

[OzarkWoman]

It's a hot potato right now. The Bible doesn't come out and specifically endorse it or prohibit it. That leads people who feel very strongly about it to build up their cases on either side. It does appear that women were active in the early church, and some have argued that women served as elders. The New Testament makes no distinction between elders and pastors. In fact, there weren't really any pastors in the early church, as least like we have today, just local elders.

What concerns me is that I think as a church we are de-focusing on this issue instead of keeping our eyes on Jesus and taking the gospel all over the world. Then those who support the ordination of women would say that if only we would recognize women in this way the gospel would go to all the world that much faster. And they may be right. I just don't think it's a moral issue, and I don't want to see this church fractured over a cultural disagreement.

Yes, there are statements by Paul in several of his New Testament letters about how women and men should behave in church. We recognize much of that to be cultural, but those who are against women being ordained also see a deeper spiritual truth there - that women should be in a submissive relationship to men - that "priestly" offices in the church are gender specific.

Those on the other side can point out that Paul gave any number of directions about worship - for example, "a woman should be silent in church" - which we obviously believe are cultural and do not apply literally to us today. How then can we accept these statements as cultural and endorse women teaching and speaking in church, but then say that, based on some of the same verses, that women should not be ordained?

Beyond that, some would argue that the real question is about ordination itself. Does the "laying on of hands" confer spiritual power or authority on the one being ordained? As Protestant Christians we believe in the priesthood of all believers - that we have equal standing with God. We confess our sins to God directly, not to a spiritual superior. If the pastor doesn't have a higher spiritual authority, then why is there such a strong disagreement about whether women and men can both serve in that capacity?

Of course there are organizational responsibilities that we, as a church, have assigned to those who are ordained, but those are more practical and pragmatic vs. spiritual.

The current hullabaloo over the issue comes because some divisions of the church are moving ahead with statements about ordaining women when the world church is not there yet. The General Conference - the highest organizational authority in the church - has asked all divisions to research this question so that we can move forward together. This goes back to issue of unity in diversity.

I think the issue is being used by the enemy to get us to fight with each other instead of working together.

[Woody]

Yes. I think ALL of us should work together without thought of this issue. Praise the Lord though ... there is progress towards this end.

[olger]

Thanks for your thoughts OzW.

There are three prevailing attitudes that Bible students adopt towards these passages and others regarding the roles on men and women.

Paul was wrong then, and he is wrong now. That is, he was sincerely mistaken in his views. Progressives/liberals normally pursue this line.

Paul was right then, but he is wrong now. This is the culturally-conditioned argument.

Paul was right then, and he is right now. That is, he was divinely inspired to set standards for all the churches down through “the last days.” I believe this is the Bible’s position.

If the Apostle Paul's teaching on the role of women is cultural, then apparently so is his counsel on "speaking in tongues."

rejoice always,

G

[Woody]

I don't know about speaking in tongues -

But for sure I see a lot of babbling.

[CoAspen]

.out of my chair...

[Gibs]

Of interrest to all following WO thing,

http://advindicate.com/?p=1750&utm_s..._EMAIL_CAMPAIGN

What did ja expect?

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

Now that the issue of WO has been decided ... I would propose that we get on with the business of spreading the Gospel. WE now need unity. Let's unite in our effort for ALL peoples to spread God's word.

[teresaq]

Of interrest to all following WO thing,

http://advindicate.com/?p=1750&utm_s..._EMAIL_CAMPAIGN

What did ja expect?

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[teresaq]

You sound like you have been studying, OW. :)

[OzarkWoman]

You sound like you have been studying, OW.

LOL I study all of the time and just read and ask plenty of questions, as to better understand things.

[doug yowell]

Thanks for your thoughts OzW.

There are three prevailing attitudes that Bible students adopt towards these passages and others regarding the roles on men and women.

Paul was wrong then, and he is wrong now. That is, he was sincerely mistaken in his views. Progressives/liberals normally pursue this line.

Paul was right then, but he is wrong now. This is the culturally-conditioned argument.

Paul was right then, and he is right now. That is, he was divinely inspired to set standards for all the churches down through “the last days.” I believe this is the Bible’s position.

G

There are at least three addendums to add to your list.

Paul had nothing to say on the subject and his apparent specific directives have nothing to do with his apparent specific directives.

We really don't care what Paul says because the church has been doing this for years now.

This whole issue is too confusing for the average person to really know so let's just let our scholars decide and move on.

[Tom Wetmore]

What strikes me about the reaction and suggested response to be made by the GC is very reminiscent of the Catholic Counter-Reformation reaction and response to the Protestant Reformation's direct challenge to the authority of the Church/Pope. Consolidate authority at the top, reform the doctrines and ecclesiastical structure to support that power and authority, reaffirm the long held doctrines, traditions and practices, especially those specifically challenged by the Protestant Reformation.

This should not be at all surprising considering the Catholic origin of headship doctrine male only clergy and the current practice of ordination...

[teresaq]

WO does help to focus in on the real issues at play, does it not? 'Course me being on the dense side it did take a moment before the full ah-hah moment struck. LOL

Now I be focused and ready to go. Just need to remember to go after prayer and guidance, not before.

[Woody]

WO does help to focus in on the real issues at play, does it not? 'Course me being on the dense side it did take a moment before the full ah-hah moment struck. LOL

Now I be focused and ready to go. Just need to remember to go after prayer and guidance, not before.