Our Heavenly Father

[JawgeFromJawja]

I am a Christian, meaning many good and wonderful things. First and foremost is that although I remain a most grievous sinner, the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ, Son of God, paid the penalty for my grievous sins.

Second is the promise of Jesus Christ that having accepted His cleansing sacrifice for my sins, I am assured of eternal life – Gospel of John 3: 15. There are multiple other passages and verses providing that assurance. The gift of eternal life is priceless. I am promised that priceless gift of eternal life by Scripture. And further, I am guaranteed that gift by my personal relationship with God.

One of my favorite long passages in The Bible is “The Sermon on the Mount” in the Gospel of Matthew, Chapters 5, 6, and 7. That passage can easily be read in twenty, or at most, thirty minutes. In that passage, Jesus repeatedly, again and again, tells us that God is our Father. He even compared that relationship with the loving relationship between an Earthly father and child, Matthew 7: 9, 10, and 11, explaining that God’s love for us far exceeds our love for our children.

It is heart rending to hear professing Christians express doubt about their state of Grace with God and to express doubt about their assurance of eternal life. It is inconceivable to me that Christians can have so little faith. Scripture assures us of eternal life in Jesus. Scripture assures us that God’s gift of eternal life is irrevocable. Finally, we need only look at the Paternal nature of God’s relationship with us. For those of us who have accepted Jesus as our Savior, our relationship with God is more binding than that of an Earthly parent and child, and God’s love for us is far greater than human parental love. To fully realize this, one needs only to meditate and pray on the deeper meaning of Matthew 7: 7 through 11.

George Collier King is a dirty, nasty, filthy, grimy, wicked guy who sins and who will sin until his last breath. This behavior more than matches the sinning behavior of Paul of Tarsus, who called himself a wretched man torn between two forces (Romans 7: 14 through 25). Confessed wretch though he remained after his conversion, Paul was beheaded with the assurance of his glorious destiny.

I feel sorry for Christians who believe that their salvation is not assured until they at last pass through the Pearly Gates. There are two great reasons for my sorrow. First, if they are sincere, they are usually anxiety ridden individuals who constantly attempt to toe the line of perfection. What a life. Second, I have to wonder whether they have a genuine relationship with our Heavenly Father. I trusted my Earthly father to provide love and all my material needs. He more than met my expectations, needs, and even wants. He was a decorated hero, severely wounded and gassed in World War I, and I know that he would have died for me had the need arisen. As great as my biological father’s love for his children, Scripture assures me that God’s love is greater.

I know my relationship with God. Thus,although my assurance of eternal life is Scriptural,I need only consider my relationship with God, that of Father and child, to know that I am saved, to know “His child and forever I am”. God is my Heavenly Father, of that relationship I am certain, and I know without the barest hint of doubt that neither my father of birth nor my Heavenly Father would take away such a gift.

[M. T. Cross]

You know Jawge, if more Christians had that kind of approach a whole lotta problems would simply go away.

I think its fantastic that you have that kind of joy and celebration about your relationship with your God.

[Gibs]

Be carefull not to get too goody goody! We must not ever encourage the sinner to believe that God will save him while he continues in sin and he knows it to be sin.

We are seeing this done today and it is a big sell among men but an absolute no sale in the eyes of God.

True Love for Him produces obedience to His will and this is being sidelined out of the picture. Don't be a part of that.

Let us all be more dedicated as soon the last case passes before our High Priest Jesus Christ and He will come for His own. Remember His reward is with Him for the redeemed so you can know He has separated His Sheep from the goats.

Later will come the great white throne judgement and your case will be shown you.

His yoke is easy and His burden is light, that is the way He has made but men want it another way that is not the way and much sad disappointment is coming.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

Nah - don't believe that. God gives us the assurance that He will save us in our sins.

[Gibs]

Many will walk with you Woody on that but I am glad I will not be in any of your shoes in the finale.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[JawgeFromJawja]

Complex post, Gibbs! Great but complex. My responses will be colored within the quote, to keep it organized.

Be carefull not to get too goody goody! We must not ever encourage the sinner to believe that God will save him while he continues in sin and he knows it to be sin.

We are seeing this done today and it is a big sell among men but an absolute no sale in the eyes of God.

What kinda church would teach this? Examples? We are not speaking of intent to sin by Christians, but an inability to totally give God our all constantly. See Paul's discussion in Romans 7: 14 - 29, a very interesting and telling passage. Paul's intention is perfection, but he realizes he does not achieve perfection in the flesh.

True Love for Him produces obedience to His will and this is being sidelined out of the picture. Don't be a part of that.

Okay - where is this a policy or doctrine?

Let us all be more dedicated as soon the last case passes before our High Priest Jesus Christ and He will come for His own. Remember His reward is with Him for the redeemed so you can know He has separated His Sheep from the goats.

Later will come the great white throne judgement and your case will be shown you.

Christians are not judged at the Great White Throne Judgment, so I and almost certainly, Woody will not be shown there.

His yoke is easy and His burden is light, that is the way He has made but men want it another way that is not the way and much sad disappointment is coming.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Many will walk with you Woody on that but I am glad I will not be in any of your shoes in the finale.

My apologies if this not be so, but this sounds as if you have already judged and condemned Woody.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Edited by Gibs (Today at 06:32)

_________________________

A Freeman In Jesus Christ

[Gibs]

Yes each one will be shown his case and each will bow the knee and confess the judgement of it is righteous.

Many are teaching saved in sin today when the way has been made we have power over it

You ask Where is the policy of love produces obedience?

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

And the judgement scene, book of life is opened too,

Re 20:11 ¶ And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

Re 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gibs]

No, JawgeFromJawja, I do not judge you, woody or no one, my thrust is to warn of the stance taken as I find it not scriptural and not with the SOP writtings that some here also hold in esteem.

Revelation 3:5 makes a lot very clear,

Re 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

The White Raiment,(1)

Name not blotted out, (2)

His name confessed to the Father and His Angels. (3)

That is for I hope you noticed for "He that Overcometh" (4)

Overcometh what some ask? The same as He did is the answer!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

Quote:

Many will walk with you Woody on that but I am glad I will not be in any of your shoes in the finale.

I am starting to feel condemned.

[M. T. Cross]

Be carefull not to get too goody goody! We must not ever encourage the sinner to believe that God will save him while he continues in sin and he knows it to be sin.

We are seeing this done today and it is a big sell among men but an absolute no sale in the eyes of God.

True Love for Him produces obedience to His will and this is being sidelined out of the picture. Don't be a part of that.

Let us all be more dedicated as soon the last case passes before our High Priest Jesus Christ and He will come for His own. Remember His reward is with Him for the redeemed so you can know He has separated His Sheep from the goats.

Later will come the great white throne judgement and your case will be shown you.

His yoke is easy and His burden is light, that is the way He has made but men want it another way that is not the way and much sad disappointment is coming.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

See I read stuff like this and I am so very thankful that I am not a Christian and do not live under that kind of stress and that kind of burden.

[Gibs]

EmptyCross,

For the true Christian it is a release from the fear and stress of what is coming on the world and all the worldly in it. Jesus lifts the heavy burden from us of overcoming the world and it's evils.

I know you have stated you have a different philosophy and I don't know what you consider your stance to be.

I know the life we now live is not the end of it. This is but a beginning and just a short breath compared to eternity. The spirit in me laid me that before I ever thought of becoming a Christian.

Many things will come up in ones life to make him consider many things and of which may bring him back to the drawing board.

It is His Spirit that draws and pulls on all of us.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[cheddar]

See I read stuff like this and I am so very thankful that I am not a Christian and do not live under that kind of stress and that kind of burden.

Unfortunately many sincere Christians/Adventists do live under this kind of stress every day. And it's because of the gospel that Gib's teaches where you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

It's not even really a gospel because there's no good news at all just endless labor and condemnation. Jesus upheld the standard but he also taught people how to get there - by believing in him.

[Gibs]

Well friends there is a true gospel and there is false gospels. You can know the true from His Word by not just picking and choosing the smooth things for itching ears.

I present a quote that is fully my words also,

"There is hope for every one of us, but only in one way—by fastening ourselves to Christ and exerting every energy to attain to the perfection of His character. This goody-goody religion that makes light of sin, and that is forever dwelling upon the love of God to the sinner, encourages sinners to believe that God will save them while they continue in sin and know it to be sin. This is the way that many are doing who profess to believe present truth. The truth is kept apart from their life, and that is the reason it has no more power to convict and convert the soul.

The lives of many show that they have no living connection with God. They are drifting into the channel of the world. In reality they have no part or lot with Christ. They love amusement and are filled with selfish plans, hopes, and ambitions. They serve the enemy under the pretense of serving God. They are in bondage to a taskmaster, and this bondage they choose, making themselves willing slaves of Satan"

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

Well Gibs - those who have chosen your brand of religion - are "choosing the smooth things for itching ears."

Legalism is as old as the hills. In fact it's older than any hills. It goes back to Lucifier.

So many feel that the works given to them by God will earn them Salvation. But what a perversion of the true Gospel.

Yes - it's the carnal and easy way that many desire because it puts THEM in charge. But the result is DEATH.

[Gibs]

Woody if you remember though the works Satan did and is still doing, is disobedience and lies and that is what reaps death for him and any who follow in his tracks. He set up the way of death.

Christ set up the way of life, OBEDIENCE. He made it so we could follow in His tracks by faith in His merits. There is no legalism to it.

Satan was really the first liberal if you will. He thought he could get away with not giving obedience to God. Same as with extreme liberals today.

Well, you know Satan and all his fallen ones with him know they must soon die.

1Pe 5:8 ¶ Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

"I was shown the low state of God's people; that God had not departed from them; but that they had departed from God, and become lukewarm. They possess the theory of the truth, but lack its saving power. As we near the close of time, Satan comes down with great power knowing his time is short. Especially upon the remnant will his power be exercised. He will war against them, he will seek to divide and scatter them, that they may grow weak and be overthrown." {4bSG 45.2}

"It is unsafe to trust to feelings or impressions; these are unreliable guides. God's law is the only correct standard of holiness. It is by this law that character is to be judged. If an inquirer after salvation were to ask, "What must I do to inherit eternal life?" the modern teachers of sanctification would answer, "Only believe that Jesus saves you." But when Christ was asked this question He said, "What is written in the law? how readest thou?" And when the questioner replied, "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, ... and thy neighbour as thyself," Jesus said, "Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live." Luke 10:26-28. {FLB 217.2}

The broad way is the way men venture to try to make it and hope to get away with it as Satan thought he could. Well it won't fly as the baggage of the world won't go through that "strait" gate.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

Quote:

Woody if you remember though the works Satan did and is still doing, is disobedience and lies and that is what reaps death for him and any who follow in his tracks.

True. But now he has become much more sly and wiser. His method of choice now is to get people to obey the law for it IT they will think they have Salvation.

[Gibs]

Obedience to the Law is the result of His Love in us and so is our desire to do it and is our chosen way. True obedience comes no other way. None without His Love in them can ever be obedient to the law.

Obedience is a good sign that one is saved by faith in Jesus Christ who alone can redeem us. We have appropriated His merits and have His righteousness imparted to us. Obedience shows it to be so.

None have any righteousness of our own.

On the other hand disobedience is a good sign we are not saved by faith in Jesus Christ and have not appropriated His Merits and so do not have His righteousness imparted. The lack of obedience tells us that.

None in our weakened state can be obedient of ourselves. Our hope and strength can only come from Him, Christ being in us, known also as His Divine Nature.

He is our hope of Glory in more ways than one, He is all things to us!

I like Pauls statement on this,

Col 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Col 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

And then John states it some different,

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

Anyone can keep the Law. But how many can LOVE.

Narrow is the way ---

[M. T. Cross]

What I keep wondering is why anyone in their right mind would want to spend all of eternity with a God that is legally dominant. What makes anyone think that the constant drive for works, acts of faith, tests of commitment will ever stop?

[Woody]

What I keep wondering is why anyone in their right mind would want to spend all of eternity with a God that is legally dominant. What makes anyone think that the constant drive for works, acts of faith, tests of commitment will ever stop?

[Gibs]

It's all about Love my friend. Love for the one who first loved us. We serve Him as we love Him and it is our pleasure to do His will. There is no displeasure in it for us. He is righteous true and just and we love that and He is our best and dearest friend we ever had or could have.

He proved His love for us in giving of Himself in our Redeemer in whom we have forgiveness. Then He made it that the Redeemer could dwell in us so we too could be victorious over sin so He could safely take us into His Everlasting Kingdom in which sin does not inherit or will ever show up.

He says, - - Mt 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

So saddle up ye all and do it His way! Let's get to them Golden Gates!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[M. T. Cross]

I don't know Gibs, my version of love does not include forced servitude. I don't think your Gods version of it does either, but I think it is a certain group of his followers that think it does. Same as over the course of history their were groups of his followers that believed his love involved murder and cultural destruction. I also think that people in this day and age pushing this legalistic and damning version of Biblical salvation are just as dangerous as those that marched into places like Northern Europe and killed thousands of "pagans" and destroyed so much cultural heritage.

[Woody]

The Devil is wise. He will make black look white. He wants to make error look like truth.

[JawgeFromJawja]

Well friends there is a true gospel and there is false gospels. You can know the true from His Word by not just picking and choosing the smooth things for itching ears.

I present a quote that is fully my words also,

"There is hope for every one of us, but only in one way—by fastening ourselves to Christ and exerting every energy to attain to the perfection of His character. This goody-goody religion that makes light of sin, and that is forever dwelling upon the love of God to the sinner, encourages sinners to believe that God will save them while they continue in sin and know it to be sin. This is the way that many are doing who profess to believe present truth. The truth is kept apart from their life, and that is the reason it has no more power to convict and convert the soul.

----------------------------------------------------------

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

I feel very sorry for you, Gibbs, and for anyone who falls for your exhortation to work, work, work. There is no work of love, of agape, in what you advocate. The work you recommend is a self centered attempt to achieve perfection.

Gibbs, if you have accepted Christ as the only plea that you have before God (Mrs. White herself endorsed this),then you must finally realize that your perfection is in Christ. In accepting Jesus, you are instantly spiritually perfect. Your flesh remains what it is, carnal, dirty, filthy, conniving, self indulgent, defensive, lying: in one word, imperfect. Permanently imperfect. All the work (energy expenditure) you can conceive of will never make it anything but what it is --- flesh.

My favorite Christian, St. Paul understood this. Lo:

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Do Christians, then, do good works? Yes, indeed. The Spirit of Christ within them overcomes the flesh sufficiently that good works are manifest by all we Christians. Some of the stuff, the scars of evil, the rewards of sin, will have to be burned away. But not we ourselves. This is known Scriptural doctrine.