Shawn Boonstra Asks; Whatever Happened to the Lost

[CGMedley]

The former Speaker/Director of IIW asks some disturbing questions.

http://www.adventistreview.org/issue.php?issue=2012-1522&page=16

[olger]

Shawn had a great message at ASI.

g

[Naomi]

Wish I could have heard it live & in person ... he made so many good points, one of which was:

Quote:

“It is the privilege of every Christian not only to look for but to hasten the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ

(2 Peter 3:12, margin). Were all who profess His name bearing fruit to His glory, how quickly the whole world would be sown with the seed of the gospel. Quickly the last great harvest would be ripened, and Christ would come to gather the precious grain.” 8

[phkrause]

Shawn had a great message at ASI.

g

I love that guy, hes truly an amazing Christian.

[olger]

Great sense of humor too. He asked me last night if I was going to buy him a 308 Ferrari (facebook wall) - I replied that it didn't match his suit.

[Stan]

Those Canadians are a sneaky, yet funny people at times.

[John317]

The former Speaker/Director of IIW asks some disturbing questions.

http://www.adventistreview.org/issue.php?issue=2012-1522&page=16

I found these remarks of Shawn Boostra especially relevent and interesting:

Quote:

... “Listen to the lyrics of hard rock musicians sometime,” he said. “A lot of those songs are the cries of lost people.”

Before my conversion I had fed myself a pretty steady diet of that kind of music, but I had never really given it much thought after my baptism. After we hung up, I looked up some of the songs I had listened to as a kid, and he was right: a lot of them were the cries of lost people. Buried not so deep beneath the hedonism and the promiscuity were the cries of people who felt helpless—people who didn’t have Christ. There was genuine anguish in their music. There were hard questions about human suffering and injustice. There was a sense of despair and hopelessness.

Why had that never occurred to me?

....What bothered me was the fact that I had previously been exposed to the music—I knew the lyrics well—but now that I was a Christian it never occurred to me to look back and see that I had been listening to lost people who were looking for answers.

I suppose, on the one hand, I had utterly rejected the lifestyle and moved on, which is a good thing. I haven’t beaten myself up over it, because it was necessary to purge those things out of my life as I made a stand for Christ. But at the same time, it makes me wonder how often we don’t notice lost people. Are we conditioned to miss them? to tune them out? to simply forget about them?

I've often thought the same thing, and asked the same questions, in relationship to art-- such as painting, photography, and creative writing. I recently went to an art exhibit at the El Paso Museum of Art, and there I saw many examples of the lost. A lot of the best photography, as well as poetry and stories, should be seen with the same questions and issues in mind.

I will post here a couple of examples from the art exhibit in El Paso, and then a couple of relevent pictures of my own that I recently took on my journey across the US.

[John317]

Do we hear or see the voices of the "lost" in these photographs?

[phkrause]

Excellent post John

[doug yowell]

Those Canadians are a sneaky, yet funny people at times.

Really sneaky,Stan. Watch your back!

[olger]

@ Canadians

@ the lost

[7daysadventist]

Originally Posted By: olger

Shawn had a great message at ASI.

g

I love that guy, hes truly an amazing Christian.

Me too, Shawn is my favorite high profile Adventist speaker.

[LifeHiscost]

I read the article clear through and came to the conclusion that the recent "accidents" that occurred to me and my wife, and the subsequent pain and deprivation was, while caused by Satan in an attack against us, was a fulfillment of just what Jesus said would happen in the society of this fallen world, and has helped us to remember what others are going through every day, sometimes on a continuous basis, whether it be the pain of physical discomfort, mental or spiritual anguish, or hopelessness felt in the face of the question, "Why me".

"Woe to the world because of offenses! For offenses must come, but woe to that man by whom the offense comes!"Matthew 18:7 NKJV

Praise God that though we must experience pain that helps us be empathetic, we need not wallow or despair in our own moments of self-revelation.

"What do you conspire against the LORD? He will make an utter end of it. Affliction will not rise up a second time."Nahum 1:9 NKJV

"He will wipe every tear from their eyes, and there will be no more death or sorrow or crying or pain. All these things are gone forever.”"Revelation 21:4 NLT

God blesses!

[7daysadventist]

CG, thank you for pasting this article here as I failed to read it the first time around.

From what I gathered, the first half showed various examples of humans being increasingly desensitized by media in the past 20 or so years.

This article was particularly helpful to me. I cannot deny experiencing much of what Shawn has described. Here I thought it was just me. I thought I was becoming colder, less sensitive, more cynical, etc. I thought it was just how I dealt with the stresses of life's frustrations plus my life & death occupation.

Am I not alone when I am attracted to those that are more sensitive to both sadness and happiness than me? I think of both children and uninhibited adults.

I applaud Shawn's ability to transition from desensitization to sincere concern for those that are, well, not heaven bound. Then Shawn ends with a smooth transition about Jesus Christ being sensitized about every soul around Him.

By the way, I read Shawn's article and made this reply while: starting a thread in a music forum about "A lot of those songs are the cries of lost people", following the 49'ers win against the Cardinals via the internet, watching the rain, checking my facebook updates and checking on my family among other distractions.

We are in the age of multi-tasking.

[M. T. Cross]

The real question I think that needs to be asked is this - how does anyone know who is lost and who is not? By your own teachings is that not up to your God?

[OzarkWoman]

What I would like to know is why someone would think someone is lost just because they are lighting a smoke.

[phkrause]

The real question I think that needs to be asked is this - how does anyone know who is lost and who is not?

I can agree with this part of your post. Having said that, there are, at least outwardly, that you can have an opinion as to who is lost and is not. Lets take Hitler! Now if we go by many that when you die you go directly to heaven, than in my opinion, we will have the same problems in the after life as we have here! So what's the sense of that??? But if when we die, we are going to a rest stage as SDA believe and that God/Jesus than go through a judging phase as to who is saved and who is not, than I agree we really don't know until we get there. Only God knows.

[phkrause]

By your own teachings is that not up to your God?

Yes its up to each individual, but ultimately up to God.

[phkrause]

What I would like to know is why someone would think someone is lost just because they are lighting a smoke.

Whoever says that, really doesn't know God, in my opinion.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

how does anyone know who is lost and who is not? By your own teachings is that not up to your God?

This Word seems clear as to all who will be among the saved. I don't believe or should I say, I have not found a Word that identifies all that will be lost, for as long as we have breath we have the choice to receive the gift of repentance as long as we can hear the Holy Spirit telling us of our need. At that point we have the ball in our court.

" For the hearts of these people are hardened, and their ears cannot hear, and they have closed their eyes— so their eyes cannot see, and their ears cannot hear, and their hearts cannot understand, and they cannot turn to me and let me heal them.’ Matthew 13:15 NLT

But blessed (happy, fortunate, and to be envied) are your eyes because they do see, and your ears because they do hear. Matthew 13:16

Then the righteous will shine like the sun in their Father’s Kingdom. Anyone with ears to hear should listen and understand! Matthew 13:43 NLT

As to knowing who (including ourselves)This seems rather clear as to who will be saved.

" Even so it is that Christ, having been offered to take upon Himself and bear as a burden the sins of many once and once for all, will appear a second time, not to carry any burden of sin nor to deal with sin, but to bring to full salvation those who are [eagerly, constantly, and patiently] waiting for and expecting Him."

Hebrews 9:28 AMP

God blesses!

[M. T. Cross]

Sure, thats fine and all LHC, but the only person you can actually apply any of that to is YOU. As you can't see into the heart of any other, you can't judge if they are lost at all. Also as you are not the Divine itself you can't judge if they are lost or not.

On another note, I find this whole theory of lost or saved to really be disturbing.

[CoAspen]

Quote:

As you can't see into the heart of any other, you can't judge if they are lost at all. Also as you are not the Divine itself you can't judge if they are lost or not.

Amen and amen!!!!!

[Tom Wetmore]

I would rather think in terms of the possible, divinely-speaking.

Some seem to suggest that God will have no choice for those who declare they don't wish to be saved, that they hate God, don't believe in God, do not repent, etc., etc., etc.

If God has given us freedom of choice, do you think he has veto power? Could he save the "unsaveable" if He chose to do so? Is God's power limited by our own very flawed power of free will? Can the weak hand of man stay the power of an all powerful God? Is there anyone that God cannot save, if He has the will to do so?

Think on a practical level. Even with our finite judgement, do we not excuse many bad things because of circumstances, human defectiveness, lack of real choice? What if at its most fundamental level it is our own free will that is so defective that it needs to be fixed? What if God said, "I can fix that" about everything and He really did fix everything. What would every thing totally fixed by God be like? What if God reversed time and performed a complete "do over"? If God can raise the dead to new and perfect life completely free of sin and its consequences, could he not destroy all the bad things, including the people, and recreate it all as if sin had never happened?

I'm just asking...

[BobRyan]

And he could make the world purple. The question is not - what is in the Power of God to "do" - the question is what did HE say in His word that He would do.

If God were not going to "Really" visit the suffering and torment of the second death on the wicked who reject the Gospel - He would not have had His Son pay that debt for all the sins of all mankind.

There is a supernatural power that "enables" faulty "free will". "if I be lifted up will DRAW all mankind unto Me" John 12:32. Even our Calvinist friends will admit that the supernatural drawing of God - enables that which total depravity disables in the fallen condition of man and the will.

Recall that in the days of Noah the claim was made that God was far too kind and loving to actually destroy the world by a flood. Yet His word to Noah was exactly that.

Satan says to Eve "indeed has God said..." and then misstates the word of God in such a way that even Eve knows his statement is wrong. She corrects the snake - saying that there is only one tree that God's Word has forbidden them to eat of. But the snake responds that even this is not correct and that some good can indeed come from rebellion - in fact to "Be like God" and that the thread "ye shall surely die" was not real.

After 1600 years of sin - the entire world perished save for 8 people.

Lot was told that the city would be destroyed. This seemed like harsh statement -- he appears not to fully comprehend the urgency and severity of the "reality" and so he obeys "slowly". His choice is to obey - but his inner conflict causes him to respond "Slowly".

Others of his family choose not to obey at all - and they remain in Sodom. Lot is dragged out of the city by the hand.

History shows that the tendency is to suppose that God's Word is more harsh, more severe than the reality - and then to be surprised by the reality at the end.

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

Sure, thats fine and all LHC, but the only person you can actually apply any of that to is YOU. As you can't see into the heart of any other, you can't judge if they are lost at all. Also as you are not the Divine itself you can't judge if they are lost or not.

On another note, I find this whole theory of lost or saved to really be disturbing.

In Matt 7 Jesus said "by their fruits you shall know them".

Be that as it may - we are not called to sit in God's chair and declare to this or that person that they are separated from God. And yet in Gal 5:4 "you have fallen from Grace ...you are separated from Christ" is the message that Paul sends to certain individuals under divine inspiration.

God calls us to admit that the world is lost and to preach the Gospel - telling everyone of the offer of salvation. It is up to each person what they will do with that invitation. Christ tells us in Matt 7 that the vast majority will reject it.

in Christ,

Bob