Today's application of bible principles without manipulating scripture

[barnz]

Many times we may find ourselves twisting scripture around to try and fit our beliefs today. Because we are a bible church, everything we believe in must be supported by scripture or else we don't believe in it.

At the same time though, we need to take the scripture in the context of the day in order to apply the same principle to today's world.

One thing I have trouble with that you guys may help me on is how to explain the application of the levitical laws today. Many of the laws commanded the israel nation to stone people if they committed certain acts. These acts are still sinful today, but we don't stone them for it. Because we don't stone people for committing certain sinful acts anymore (practicing spiritualism for example), that seems to give leeway to others to say it is okay to do certain things today that was not accepted at those times (eating unclean meats for example).

So lets start with levitcal examples, how do we explain to people why we don't stone people for calling spirits anymore? It's in the bible after all ^^

[Gibs]

I rather imagine that time was more righteous than our time today. Many have been put to death determined by the different court systems of the world for crimes deemed by men to warrant it.

What is worse today we have wars that kill off millions and who is right in all of it? Is the USA righteous in it's stance and killing, no of course not. Is any of the rest right? No of course not. Most of the countries of the world know the USA as the great Satan.

Iran does not want war and wouldn't be a starting one, they do build for there own protection, but wouldn't you. Who wants that war? Israel and the USA. I don't like any of them, none are righteous in there asessments.

We are heading for civil war here in the USA and our government is preparing for it against the people big time.

The TRUE CHRISTIAN in the end is to be put to death, many will be marttyred, prob more than up through the dark ages. We have seen nothing yet.

Population of the wrorld now is around 7 billion now and guess what? They, The Powers That Be (TPTB)want to bring that down to less than a billion. They are working on that now, the game has started, the Bible calls it "perilous times".

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[skyblue888]

Okay but Gibs you did not address alex's question directly as to why today the church has no power or authority to stone people for committing certain acts. Since the first advent of Christ to our world this is now the realm of the powers that be, the power of the State only. Church and State are separated, at least in so-called Christian nations.

Romans 13 speaks of the powers that be as being ordained of God and it says that these do not bear the sword in vain and that those who do evil should fear these powers.

Now remember that the powers that be are ordained of God to control those who cannot control themselves. It is the way of force and of the sword. It is not the way of God's kingdom for Jesus said "He who lives by the sword will perish by the sword."

What confuses many of us is that when we read about the wars of Israel in the Old Testament and of the way justice was carried out within their own borders we believe that they were carrying out the perfect will of God but they were not. True, it was God who gave them instructions to punish evil by the sword whether their enemies or within their own borders but only because they knew nothing but the way of the sword. God bore long with them even until they said, "We have no king but Ceasar."

They rejected Christ and His ways because they conflicted with their traditional way of doing things. The expected Him to lead an army and to topple the Roman armies by the use of the sword as they had been so accustomed to do in Old Testament times thinking that this was God's only way of protecting them.

The Isrealites were stiffnecked. They were not teachable. They rejected God's way and therefore they perished by the sword.

Today the work of punishing evil is left to the powers that be who know nothing but the way of the sword to control those who cannot control themselves. They are ordained of God but we must remember that this world is not the kingdom of God. The principles of the government of God are of a totally different nature.

And we must not forget that God did not give the powers that be the right to punish immorality, only incivility.

sky

[Gibs]

The system was far more righteous then than now. It was by God through Moses.

Today it is by Satan through his men, the 10 horns of the present beast system now with the crowns, kingly power. They haven't been given a kingdom yet by Satan but they do rule the world, puppet all the rulers and industry and money, banking, includes our senators and presidents.

Just wait a little more and you will see big time killing and it won't be the righteousness of God but the hellishness of Satan and all his evil men.

That is as clear and concise as I can make it, I'm not a prolific typer and it is a long story which I will not attempt to explain. I leave it merely for something for to mull over. Civil war is coming to the USA too, they have lots of bullets for each and every one!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[fccool]

Quote:

Many times we may find ourselves twisting scripture around to try and fit our beliefs today. Because we are a bible church, everything we believe in must be supported by scripture or else we don't believe in it.

The context of this discussion is how people use the Bible as a rule book. It was never meant to be the rule book for the entire world.

One of my pet peeves is when a pastor whips out a passage with a word "you in it", and then asks the congregation, "So, what does the Bible want you to do?". It's obscene! Bible is primarily a collection of moralistic historical stories. Many of which are parables and folklore as recognized by even hardcore fundamentalist scholars (books like Job, or Esther, for example). So, reading it as an exact guide for our lives this day is a terrible way to live.

In fact, most Christians and even Jews don't do that. That's why the Chapter XX Verse XX system exists. It breaks down the narrative into what it never meant to do - to prove a certain moralistic point by stripping a sentence out of a narrative. It's beyond dishonest.

Quote:

At the same time though, we need to take the scripture in the context of the day in order to apply the same principle to today's world.

I would go beyond that. One has to look at thematics and principles, instead of narrowing on the meaning of certain words. The overall power of any narrative is not in the individual words, but in the overall story.

I'd say that if taken individuall, verse by verse, rule by rule, command by command, description by description, the morality of the Bible is terrible. It's highly subjective... i.e. It was right for these people, but not right for us. It constantly shift around. It clashes with itself.

That's why, if you are a Christian, the only defensible way to look at the Bible is to stop printing Chapters and verses. Have people read and understand the narrative.

The narrative is essentially about a violent human race that has to kill in order to get by, and a perfect example of human being who was willing to be killed in order for other to live without perpetually sacrificing something because of their mistakes.

Essentially, it's about ending the circle of violence that comes from lack of forgiveness. And that's what at the hear of the narrative - forgiveness, and love.

If Christianity = fundomentalism, then Christianity will cease to exist in the next 50-100 years. Fundomentalism is a boy who cried wolf too many times for people to take it seriously. It fails to solve anything. It created more problems than it espouses to solve.

Quote:

One thing I have trouble with that you guys may help me on is how to explain the application of the levitical laws today. Many of the laws commanded the israel nation to stone people if they committed certain acts. These acts are still sinful today, but we don't stone them for it. Because we don't stone people for committing certain sinful acts anymore (practicing spiritualism for example), that seems to give leeway to others to say it is okay to do certain things today that was not accepted at those times (eating unclean meats for example).

Leviticus laws apply in principle. They don't and will never apply literally. How can they? Even the health laws in Leviticus dictate that one is to throw out any cookware that a pork touched. Adventists would not be able to eat at any restaurant following such ideals.

That's why there are a lot of claims to follow the law, but no one really does it in a sense that it was ordered to be practiced. It's always a rationalized modified version.

But, in some sense, that's how morality progresses. We take the best of the old, mix it with the best of the new and we throw out the unnecessary. Biblical morality still lives in principle, and that's the only possible way that it can live in today's society.