Does Our Culture Take the Law Beyond the Commandments?

[JoeMo]

When I look at the 28 Fundamentals on http://www.adventist.org/beliefs/fundamental/index.html, I am pretty much in total agreement with them. However, I sometimes wonder if prevailing SDA culture doesn't take things beyond what the Bible and the Fundamentals tell us.

Take alcohol, for example. I just went though all 240 scripture references to wine; and never is there a general command for God's people in general to never consume alcohol. Yes; there are commands for priests to not drink wine;and for those in mourning or on a fast to not drink wine, and commands to not get drunk. It seems like wine was supposed to be offered to God in the OT sacrificial syastem; and in John it says Jesus made lots of wine for people who were already drunk. I'm not advocating that we start drinking; I'm just asking if, as a culture, we are taking the warnings about drinking beyond what the law says.

Take jewelry as another example. There are many places in scripture where jewels and gold are referred to as a blessing. In Ezekiel 16, God talks about how He adorned Jerusalem ( a young woman allegorically) is jewels. True, Paul admonishes women not to count on jewels and gold (I will add make-up as a personal interpretation); but I couldn't find anything that forbids the wearing of jewelry or make-up. Again, I'm not advocating that women totally adorn themselves with gold and diamonds, and put on make-up with a putty knife; but I don't see a scriptural prohibition.

Am I making sense? Am I missing something? What do you think?

[Tom Wetmore]

Yes, this is a growing concern that our traditions, cultural, Adventist, Christian, tend to cloud our discernment of a balanced view of Scripture. When the Church's traditions begin to trump and take on greater importance than clear Scriptural authority and being truly lead by the Spirit of God, we have turned a corner and head down a very dangerous path. It becomes the authority of the Church.

We are now seeing the full bloom of the consequences of that right now. WIll the authority of tradition win?

[Gibs]

The Bible does condemn the drunken and EGW does too, I think Satan is the inventor of fermenting to produce booze to set a man crazy and in lot of cases dangerous. Booze destroyed my brother and I know many it has. Booze is a tool of Satan. You see what it got poor old Noah.

With women I think the main thrust they should follow is to not make of themselves the appearance of a "Jezebel".

1Ti 2:9 ¶ In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

Ya married what ya thought was a beauty but ya wakes up in the morning seeing her without being "made up" and man you say who is this? LOL!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[JoeMo]

Hey Gibs,

You stated that "The Bible does condemn the drunken and EGW does too". I agree. But nowhere does the Bible (that I can find) condemn having a drink. I don't think satan invented fermentation; I think God did. Read Deuteronomy. Time and time again, a mandatory part of sacrifical system was lots of wine. Also, why would Jesus have made so much wine for people who already had too much to drink, if fermentation is a satanic invention?

[Gibs]

Here is a statement from EGW on the wine and whether fermented is to be imbibed.

Many times in the OT wine was fresh juice. Fermented wine I'm sure wasn't used to point to the Blood of Christ.

EGW,- "The wine created by Christ at the marriage feast in Galilee was the best wine that those present had ever tasted. But it was entirely free from all fermentation. Christ Himself had forbidden the use of fermented drink, saying, "Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die; it shall be a statute forever throughout your generations; and that ye may put difference between holy and unholy, and between clean and unclean, and that ye may teach the children of Israel all the statutes which the Lord hath spoken unto them by the hand of Moses." {BEcho, September 4, 1899 par. 1}

Fermented liquor confuses the senses and perverts the powers of the being. God is dishonoured when men have not sufficient respect for themselves to practice strict temperance. Fermented wine is not a natural production. The Lord never made it, and with its production He has nothing to do. Paul advised Timothy to take a little wine for his stomach's sake and oft infirmities, but he meant the unfermented juice of the grape. He did not advise Timothy to take what the Lord had prohibited. {BEcho, September 4, 1899 par. 2}

The use of fermented wine caused Nadab and Abihu to confuse the sacred and the common, and death was their penalty. After this, severe restrictions were placed on those connected with the sacred service. They were prohibited, when they came before the Lord, from touching wine or using grapes in any way, that they might avoid the result of becoming familiar with fermented liquor. When food or drink which bewilders the brain is placed in the mouth, the destroyer sees his opportunity to enter and dethrone the reason. {BEcho, September 4, 1899 par. 3}

Some who claim to be Christians feel at liberty to use intoxicating drink, and in this particular they claim to be in harmony with Christ. But Christ did not set the example they claim to imitate. Be assured that He did not make intoxicating wine on the occasion of His first miracle. He gave to those present a drink which it is safe to give to all humanity--the pure juice of the grape. Christ never placed a glass of fermented liquor to His lips or to the lips of His disciples. Drunkenness was rare in Palestine, but Christ looked down the ages, and saw in every generation what the use of wine would do for the users, therefore at this feast He set a right example. {BEcho, September 4, 1899 par. 4}

Christ did not give publicity to His action, and at first only a few knew of the embarrassment of the governor. But after the new wine was brought in, great astonishment was expressed by the guests regarding its superiority over the wine first placed before them. The miracle became known, and the very work Christ desired to see done was accomplished. The faith of the disciples was confirmed. This miracle was to them a convincing testimony that their Master was the world's Redeemer. {BEcho, September 4, 1899 par. 5}

Jesus did not touch the water in the jars. He simply looked upon it, and at once it became like wine fresh from the cluster. Only a few days before, Christ had refused to work a miracle to satisfy His hunger. He was weak and emaciated; for He had been without food for forty days and forty nights; but He would not command the stones to become bread to satisfy His appetite. To the suggestion of the enemy He answered, "It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." Neither would He accept a challenge to imperil His life by casting Himself down from the pinnacle of the temple to prove that He was the Son of God. In answer to the challenge, He said, "It is written, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God." But on the occasion of the wedding feast He performed a miracle to show that marriage is not forbidden by God." {BEcho, September 4, 1899 par. 6}

Using cider, wine, beer etc. only leads most to the stronger alcohol content stuff and real hardened drunkards. It is venturing on Satan's playground.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[JoeMo]

Hey Gibs,

As always, I appreciate your fine heart and your faith.

However, EGW's statement about the wine made by Christ at Cana has no basis in scripture. In fact, the in John 2:10 is "the guests have had too much to drink"

Futhermore, the OT verse she quoted has to do with the priests; not the people at large.

Some other verses to consider are:

Gen. 14:18 - "Then Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine. He was priest of God Most High, 19 and he blessed Abram, saying,“Blessed be Abram by God Most High, Creator of heaven and earth." Wasn't

Melchizedek a type of Christ?

Ex. 29:40 - "With the first lamb offer a tenth of an ephah of the finest flour mixed with a quarter of a hin of oil from pressed olives, and a quarter of a hin of wine as a drink offering." If wine was so evil, why would God require it in a sacrifice? see also Num. 15:5-10;18:12 and 28:14.

Numbers 6:20 - "The priest shall then wave these before the LORD as a wave offering; they are holy and belong to the priest, together with the breast that was waved and the thigh that was presented. After that, the Nazirite may drink wine." Why would God ever let a Nazrite drink wine if it is a sin?

Psalms 104: 14-15 - "He makes grass grow for the cattle, and plants for people to cultivate— bringing forth food from the earth: wine that gladdens human hearts, oil to make their faces shine, and bread that sustains their hearts." Why would the psalmist give praise to God for wine, if it was evil?

I could go on and on; but you get the picture. Admittedly, there are many verses warning of the danger of wine; but they all seem to refer to getting drunk.

As far as the women go, if a man marries a woman solely for her looks, he has married her for the wrong reason. I've met some women who were less than beautiful who became beautiful once I got to know them because of their beautiful spirits.

Sorry Gibs, but for the most part, your revelation is not mine in this case. But I still love you as a brother!

[Gibs]

The percentage of drunks back in those times even of Jesus time was far, far lower than it is today. Today even harder stuff than high content alcohol is used and that percentage is growing. It all starts with the lesser stuff and we are not to condone it's use. Today too much condoning of evil things is being done and by Christianity is what is so alarming. Many of the big evangelists are found to be booze, and drug hounds and adultery among them is big time.

The church needs to clean up.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[JoeMo]

God Bless you, brother Gibs,

Have a wonderful Sabbath!

[Gibs]

May God bless you too Bro. JoeMo this Holy Sabbath day.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.