Day of Trumpets and Shouting

[Ron Amnsn]

The new moon of the seventh biblical month was sighted Monday evening in Israel. Today is God's annual appointed time called Yom Teruah-- one of the annual Sabbaths that the apostle Paul called "an outline of things to come" (Col 2:17)

Jesus fulfilled each of God's springtime feasts exactly on God's appointed day. The autumn feasts remain unfulfilled.

In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 1Cor 15:52

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 1Thess 4:16

[12tribes]

The feast of trumpets was before the day of atonement so because the day of atonement began 1844 then the feast of trumpets was before 1844.

[Ron Amnsn]

God's word states that God's appointed times occur each year.

Of course there was a Day of Atonement in 1844, and the Day of Trumpets occurs 10 days before the Day of Atonement each year.

But you seem to be saying that God's appointed times have ceased. Where is that stated in Scripture?

[Gibs]

Ron, Maybe with a lot of SDA's they are seeing the final day of atonement beginning 1844 and is still going on, that day is now, 168 solar yrs old by now. Known also as the time of the end.

It is pretty clear I think the appointed times will be observed in the new earth and the coming paradise.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[12tribes]

God's word states that God's appointed times occur each year.

Of course there was a Day of Atonement in 1844, and the Day of Trumpets occurs 10 days before the Day of Atonement each year.

But you seem to be saying that God's appointed times have ceased. Where is that stated in Scripture?

God does have appointed times, and the appointed time for the feast of trumpets was before the day of atonement and since the day of atonement began 1844 the the appointed time for the feast of trumpets was before 1844.

[Ron Amnsn]

God does have appointed times, and the appointed time for the feast of trumpets was before the day of atonement and since the day of atonement began 1844 the the appointed time for the feast of trumpets was before 1844.

Where does it teach in Scripture that God's annual appointed times should be ignored because of an unconfirmed hypothetical system of prophetic interpretation that sets aside the Word of God regarding YHWH's yearly appointed times and purports to transfer the significance to metaphoric "days" that are not actually days.

When Jesus died as the sacrifice represented by the Passover lamb, He did so on the annual day of Passover, which was a literal day appointed by God in Scripture -- the 14th day of the first biblical month.

When Jesus rose from the dead as the firstfruits of the resurrection and presented himself to God, He did so on the annual day of the Wave Sheaf, which was a literal day appointed by God in Scripture -- after the Sabbath during the literal week of Unleavened Bread.

When Jesus ascended to heaven and sent the power of the Holy Spirit on his followers, He did so on the annual Feast of Weeks (aka Pentecost) which was a literal day appointed by God in Scripture -- exactly 7 weeks and a day (50 literal days) from the day of the Wave Sheaf.

When Jesus fulfills the Day of Trumpets and Shouting, will it be in a metaphoric way that no one noticed or remembers? Or will He do it on the literal day appointed by God in Scripture -- the first day of the 7th month?

When Jesus fulfills the Day of the Atonements, will it be in a metaphoric way that no one sees or notices? Or will He do it on the literal day appointed by God in Scripture -- the 10th day of the 7th biblical month?

When Jesus fulfills the annual Sabbaths of the Feast of Tabernacles, will it be in a metaphoric way that no one sees or notices? Or will it be on the literal day appointed by God in Scripture -- 15th and 22nd days of the 7th month?

If the Day of Trumpets and Shouting actually received it's final fulfillment sometime before 1844, what was that fulfillment? When did it happen? What did Jesus do?

[12tribes]

From what you have said it sounds like you still believe we should be making sacrifices? If you believe in keeping the feast days then sacrifices are a part of that.

[Ron Amnsn]

From what you have said it sounds like you still believe we should be making sacrifices? If you believe in keeping the feast days then sacrifices are a part of that.

As you know, this is a "red herring". I will respond, then you can answer my questions above.

I believe that we should follow God's instructions. His instructions specify that the animal sacrifices can be made only in the place where YHWH chose to place his name (Jerusalem), and only by the priests who are descended from Aaron's son Eliazer when they are prepared to serve before YHWH. If God arranges the affairs of men so that the priesthood were to function again in Jerusalem, then sacrifices would again be allowed.

The sacrifices that were associated with the feast days were done by the priests and leaders at the Tabernacle or Temple. There were also things to be done by the normal people, even by those who did not go up to Jerusalem for the feast (women, children, and those outside the land of Israel). Like Daniel when he was in exile in Babylon, we are still able to follow as much of God's instructions as is possible when there is no Temple in Jerusalem. Even without a Temple and the animal sacrifices associated with God's appointed times, it is still possible to do most of the things that the common people did on God's appointed times.

Sure, it's not the full experience that God intended for his festivals, but there's no harm in keeping God's calendar instead of the pope's calendar (Gregorian). The first Passover occurred before there was an earthly tabernacle or Temple, Jesus indicated to His disciples that Passover would be fulfilled someday in the kingdom (Luke 22:16), and speaking of Passover the apostle Paul wrote, "Therefore let us celebrate the festival..." (1Cor 5:8)

There are other things in the Bible that were closely associated with animal sacrifices that are still done by Christians today -- things such as paying tithe, public Sabbath worship, repenting, drawing close to God, and being priests.

[12tribes]

If you think we should keep the feast days then you are putting yourself under the Law and are obliged to keep the whole Law. Christ put an end to the Laws of ordinances as the Bible says.

[Ron Amnsn]

12tribes, you haven't answered the question about the fulfillment of the Day of Trumpets.

Now you have added more assertions that can't be supported by Scripture.

If I thought I was earning my salvation by keeping the feasts, then perhaps I would be "under the law". On the other hand, if I thought God's law was good thing, as the Bible teaches, and wanted to live as much like Jesus as I can, then I would merely be loving God and the good things that he gave us.

Where is the Scripture that says "Christ put an end to the Laws of ordinances"?

[12tribes]

As I said before the day of atonement began 1844. The feast of trumpets was always before the day of atonement so therefore the feast of trumpets has been fulfilled.

Colossians 2:14 KJV

(14) Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

[Ron Amnsn]

As I said before the day of atonement began 1844. The feast of trumpets was always before the day of atonement so therefore the feast of trumpets has been fulfilled.

So it was a stealth fulfillment that no one noticed? What did Jesus do to fulfill the Day of Trumpets before 1844?

[12tribes]

So it was a stealth fulfillment that no one noticed? What did Jesus do to fulfill the Day of Trumpets before 1844?

Have you never heard of the great religious awakening that happened before 1844?

[Ron Amnsn]

Colossians 2:14 KJV

(14) Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

In English that sounds like God's ordinances might have been nailed to the cross. Lot's of people believe that. But truth isn't determined by popularity.

When we look at the Greek for that verse we see that the word ordinances is translated from the word dogmasin a form of dogma. In the Greek Old Testament of that day (the Septuagint) none of the forms of dogma is ever used to refer to any of God's laws, instructions, ordinances, or statutes. In the Septuagint, dogma always refers to man-made decrees, usually those of pagan kings. If Paul was wanting to refer to God's ordinances he would have used the same words that the Greek Old Testament used to refer to those ordinances. But Paul didn't use any of those words.

This thread examines Col. 2:14 in more detail. The verse doesn't say anything about any part of God's law being done away with.

It's amazing that people who say they follow Jesus are so anxious to get rid of the Law that Jesus followed, especially since Jesus taught that not a stroke of the Law would disappear until heaven and earth pass away. (Matt 5:17-19) Jesus commanded, "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets," yet that's exactly what people do think.

[Ron Amnsn]

Have you never heard of the great religious awakening that happened before 1844?

Yes, I've read quite a few accounts of that awakening. Many good things happened, yet many of the people were teaching falsehoods, such as preaching that Jesus would return in 1843 or October 1844. According to the early SDA's, after Jesus didn't return as expected most of the people returned back to being "nominal Christians". Does a great flurry of false teaching somehow fulfill God's appointed time for the Day of Trumpets and Shouting?

There have been other religious awakenings before and after the early 1840's.

What did Jesus do to fulfill the Day of Trumpets and Shouting?

[12tribes]

John 19:30 KJV

(30) When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Mark 15:37-38 KJV

(37) And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost.

(38) And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.

Quote:

As Jesus died on Calvary, He cried, “It is finished,” and the veil of the temple was rent in twain, from the top to the bottom. This was to show that the services of the earthly sanctuary were forever finished, and that God would no more meet with the priests in their earthly temple, to accept their sacrifices. The blood of Jesus was then shed, which was to be offered by Himself in the heavenly sanctuary. As the priest entered the most holy once a year to cleanse the earthly sanctuary, so Jesus entered the most holy of the heavenly, at the end of the 2300 days of Daniel 8, in 1844, to make a final atonement for all who could be benefited by His mediation, and thus to cleanse the sanctuary. {EW 253.1}

[Ron Amnsn]

Quote:

As Jesus died on Calvary, He cried, “It is finished,” and the veil of the temple was rent in twain, from the top to the bottom. This was to show that the services of the earthly sanctuary were forever finished, and that God would no more meet with the priests in their earthly temple, to accept their sacrifices. The blood of Jesus was then shed, which was to be offered by Himself in the heavenly sanctuary. As the priest entered the most holy once a year to cleanse the earthly sanctuary, so Jesus entered the most holy of the heavenly, at the end of the 2300 days of Daniel 8, in 1844, to make a final atonement for all who could be benefited by His mediation, and thus to cleanse the sanctuary. {EW 253.1}

The interpretation that I have bolded in your quotation above is not found or supported by Scripture. The Scriptures do tell us that the veil was torn, but the only interpretation or meaning that Scripture gives to that event is to tell us that the veil represented the flesh of Messiah. (Heb 10:20). All other interpretations are man-made tradition or speculation.

If those interpretations agree with the rest of Scripture, then there is a possibility that they could be correct. However, in this case the interpretation contradicts what is written in God's Word. For example, when God initiated the worship services in the Tabernacle He told the Israelites:

"It shall be a continual burnt offering throughout your generations at the doorway of the tent of meeting before the LORD, where I will meet with you, to speak to you there. I will meet there with the sons of Israel, and it shall be consecrated by My glory. I will consecrate the tent of meeting and the altar; I will also consecrate Aaron and his sons to minister as priests to Me. I will dwell among the sons of Israel and will be their God. They shall know that I am the LORD their God who brought them out of the land of Egypt, that I might dwell among them; I am the LORD their God." (Exodus 29:42-46 NASB)

If God intended to end the Temple services when Messiah died, He would have told the people that the services would last until Messiah fulfilled the sacrifices. But that's not what God said. God said that the services would endure "throughout your generations". As you know, the descendants of Jacob continue to produce generations even to this day. God's covenant with the Israelites did specify that there would be times when because of disobedience, they would be conquered and carried away into exile. During those times, as during Daniel's exile in Babylon, the services in the God's temple/tabernacle ceased temporarily. God's Word says that the temple/tabernacle services would remain valid throughout the generations of the Israelites and that He would meet with them there. We can count on God keeping his word and his covenants with men.

Also, the New Testament record shows that the followers of Jesus did not believe the interpretation of the torn veil that you have presented. At the end of Luke we are told that the believers "were continually in the temple praising God." Why would they go to the Temple where the services that your interpretation says were "forever finished" continued to go on day after day as God had instructed?

This state of affairs continues throughout the book of Acts. The followers of Jesus continued to meet together at the Temple to worship and teach. Acts 5:13 tells us "the people held them in high esteem". If God would no longer meet there, why does God specifically tell the apostles, "Go, stand and speak to the people in the temple the whole message of this Life." (Acts 5:20) Doesn't God dwell in and speak through His apostles? If that "whole message of this Life" had included the message that "the services of the earthly sanctuary were forever finished, and that God would no more meet with the priests in their earthly temple", the people coming to worship at the temple would have turned against them. If the followers of Jesus had believed your interpretation of the torn veil, there would have been no need for false witnesses to testify against Stephen in Acts 6:11-13 because truthful witness would have truthfully said what the false witnesses were induced to say.

Paul himself, at the end of his public ministry went up to the Temple at the time of Pentecost with the intention of offering sacrifices, but was prevented from doing so by men speaking falsehoods. Although many modern Christians have criticized Paul (contrary to Scripture) for going up to the Temple to complete the purifications, the Lord himself commended Paul for the manner in which Paul conducted himself in Jerusalem (Acts 23:11), which was of course completely in line with what is written in the Scriptures.

I know, some will be disturbed that I have tested what was written in the passage you quoted above by comparing it to Scripture. But that is exactly what EGW taught her followers to do. It is what the Bereans were commended for doing. They were testing the words of the apostle Paul himself by diligently searching the Old Testament Scriptures to see whether the things Paul was saying were true. And for having the impertinence to test the message of Paul, the Bereans were commended. If Paul had been teaching what you are teaching, 12tribes, how would the Bereans have been able to confirm that message within the writings of the Old Testament? That can't be done. It can't even be done by using the New Testament.