Should False Doctrine be stopped?

[BobRyan]

And by "stopped" I don't mean that a papal edict should be issued against it.

What does Paul say should be done with false doctrine arising WITHIN a given denomination - (for the sake of this board and context - within the SDA denomination).

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Acts 20 – to the Elders at Ephesus

28 ""Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.

29 ""I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock;

30 and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them.

31 ""Therefore be on the alert, remembering that night and day for a period of three years I did not cease to admonish each one with tears.

32 ""And now I commend you to God and to the word of His grace, which is able to build you up and to give you the inheritance among all those who are sanctified.

1Timoth 1

3As I urged you upon my departure for Macedonia, remain on at Ephesus so that you may instruct certain men not to teach strange doctrines,

4nor to pay attention to myths and endless genealogies, which give rise to mere speculation rather than furthering the administration of God which is by faith.

5But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.

6For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion,

7wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions.

1 Timothy 4

Apostasy

1But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,

2by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron,

Galatians – 1

6 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel;

7 which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.

8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!

9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!

Titus 1

10 For there are many rebellious men, empty talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision,

11 who must be silenced because they are upsetting whole families, teaching things they should not teach for the sake of sordid gain.

12 One of themselves, a prophet of their own, said, "" Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons.''

13 This testimony is true. For this reason reprove them severely so that they may be sound in the faith,

14 not paying attention to Jewish myths and commandments of men who turn away from the truth.

15 To the pure, all things are pure; but to those who are defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure, but both their mind and their conscience are defiled.

16 They profess to know God, but by their deeds they deny Him, being detestable and disobedient and worthless for any good deed.

in Christ,

Bob

[Gibs]

Yes, I am sure it is sorely needed. I do believe though we can have much effect with the majority of it. Even though we are Gideons few but we go forth as He sends us and He may just start doing that with the 144,000 and all who will fall in with them.

That time is to be greater than pentecost we are told.

"Here are the two great powers, the power of truth and righteousness and the working of Satan to make of none effect the law of God. The human agent, magnetized by the power of Satan, works in the lines of the enemy; the Saviour employs His human instrumentalities to be laborers together with God. . . . Those who expect to be children of God are not to expect an easy time in this life. . . . We are not left alone to engage in this conflict. Jesus Christ is the Captain of our salvation."—Manuscript 61, 1899.

"Paul, in his second letter to the Thessalonians, points to the special working of Satan in spiritualism as an event to take place immediately before the second advent of Christ. Speaking of Christ's second coming, he declares that it is "after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders." 2 Thessalonians 2:9. {Mar 168.1}

Before the final visitation of God's judgments upon the earth there will be among the people of the Lord such a revival of primitive godliness as has not been witnessed since apostolic times. The Spirit and power of God will be poured out upon His children. At that time many will separate themselves from those churches in which the love of this world has supplanted love for God and His word. Many, both of ministers and people, will gladly accept those great truths which God has caused to be proclaimed at this time to prepare a people for the Lord's second coming. The enemy of souls desires to hinder this work; and before the time for such a movement shall come, he will endeavor to prevent it by introducing a counterfeit. In those churches which he can bring under his deceptive power he will make it appear that God's special blessing is poured out; there will be manifest what is thought to be great religious interest. Multitudes will exult that God is working marvelously for them, when the work is that of another spirit. Under a religious guise, Satan will seek to extend his influence over the Christian world. {Mar 168.2}

We need to pray for that outpouring upon all the true ones to Him. A work must be done as hasn't been since Pentecost!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[John317]

X10

[Gerr]

Yes, but how?

[phkrause]

[Naomi]

Yes, but how?

X100 ... second Gerry's question ... how??

[Gibs]

By the power of God, the Holy Spirit poured out in a greater than the first Pentecost. It is coming, pray for it and that His Spirit be upon each and we all go forth with the 144,000.

This is the faithful few of earth! Gideons few but look what they done, really not they but the power of God, and it will be done again. Let's all be a part in it!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[JoeMo]

Great question, Bob! When I look at your scripture quotes, I have to anser your question with another question - Who defines false doctrine? In a world with over 40,000 Christian denominations and so many personal interpretations of the Bible, it's tough! Even here on CA, almost every theological discussion devolves into "saved by law" vs. "saved by grace".

Your quote from Acts 20 was given to the Ephesians. The book of Ephesians is a book about "salvation by grace" (See Eph. 2:1-10) Your quote from Galatians 1 - if one follows them through with the context of the whole epistle seems to support "salvation by grace" (See Gal 3:1-6 and 5:1-6). Your quote from Titus 1 warns about following Jewish myths (legalism); although much of the rest of the book is dedicated to practicing clean living (which I argue is simply good sense - not seeking "saved by law). I am totally sold out to the "saved by grace" camp" - my obedience and submission to God is the RESULT of my being saved by the grace and mercy of the Lord Jesus; not a PREREQUISITE for recieving mercy and grace. I am positive others will respond to this philosophy with their own opinion that the only way to be saved is to be sinless. While I disagree with that position, I won't come out and call them "lost" or "heretics. I used to be them.

So again - who defines "false doctrine"?

[Gail]

Great topic!

[CoAspen]

Well put,

Quote:

So again - who defines "false doctrine"?

I don't think it, false doctrine, is really difficult, but is quite often in the mind of the beholder. Even with in SDAism, we see many axes being ground. Another part of the question is it mans or Christ 'doctrine'. Not trying to derail topic, but how does one answer the question with out definition? Tis always good to be on the 'same page'..eh!

[Gibs]

Now we have some who want to know who defines false doctrine? Easy enough. God does, He speaks to us in His Word and His Word is Spirit and it is truth!

Those in whom His Holy Spirit dwells, He has not left His Faithful in the dark ever!

Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Joh 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Joh 8:31 ¶ Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

Joh 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

I have absolute faith in those promises and see and have no problem what so ever.

The truth invites investigation, loves it and don't get heated when questioned. It is of the Rock.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[CoAspen]

Quote:

God does, He speaks to us in His Word and His Word is Spirit and it is truth!

Absolutely!!

But how do we handle the humans that wish to 'tell' us what that Word and Holy Spirit are saying? We have already been set up, so to speak, with the phrase "with in the SDA church".

That supposes false doctrine is already with in the church. We already have two groups, pro WO and anti WO that do not agree with what the Bible says with one side at times saying that WO would be a false doctrine.

I do have an answer to the original question but wish to make sure I understand the question in its entirety!

[JoeMo]

Again I will ask, who defines correct doctrine? I will take the question further - who defines what doctrine is a salvational issue and what is not? Is there a salvational difference between believing that the universe is 6,000 years old and believing that several billion years could have passed between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2? If there a salvational issue between believing that Jesus died on a Friday or a Wednesday afternoon? Is being doctrinally pure and having a "contractual"and formal relationship with Jesus more important than having an intimate and loving relationship with Jesus and having a slightly flawed doctrine? Is eating pork occasionally gonna send you to hell? What about if it's only a little lard in some refried beans? How about smoking the occasional cigarette ... or a joint? Do we need to just keep the Sabbath, or should we be keeping all the Feast Days, too? Do the 28 Fundamentals go far enough in defining our doctrine; or do they go too far? Is rejecting EGW as an infallible prophet worthy of damnation? Does WO make the church Babylon or does being anti-WO make us Babylon? Does WO matter?

Does your opinion on these questions define correct doctrine for just you; or does it define correct doctrine for the world - or maybe just Adventism?

Just askin'! Some of you may think these are stupid questions. Others will likely have many more questions than this.

[olger]

Again I will ask, who defines correct doctrine?

This man

[Gibs]

What on earth doctrines should we hold to anyway? Here is the answer,

Joh 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

Joh 7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

That last one is the biggy for today of which it is speaking I am very afraid.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[BobRyan]

Yes, but how?

We inform the people - we let the light be contrasted to darkness.

It means "more Bible study" - not less. It means the Bible is "the Word of God" - not less.

It means that if we are SDA and accept the gift of prophecy God gave to Ellen White - then we also "read" that message He gave as if God meant it.

Error cannot long endure the light of day and an informed body of Christ. Why then should we resort to Papal edits to get rid of it - when simply becoming better friends with the Word of God - will do nicely?

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

Great question, Bob! When I look at your scripture quotes, I have to anser your question with another question - Who defines false doctrine? In a world with over 40,000 Christian denominations and so many personal interpretations of the Bible, it's tough! Even here on CA, almost every theological discussion devolves into "saved by law" vs. "saved by grace".

If we are talking about dialogue across denominational barriers then the answer to the OP is tolerance, and defending religious freedom, and promote religious liberty.

But if we are talking about ideas WITHIN a given denomination - then we are talking about the Bible as the Word of God - and sola-scriptura testing of all doctrine even if it turns out that a give person's definition of "saved by works" and yes even "saved by grace" turns out to be horribly flawed.

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

Again I will ask, who defines correct doctrine? I will take the question further - who defines what doctrine is a salvational issue and what is not? Is there a salvational difference between believing that the universe is 6,000 years old and believing that several billion years could have passed between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2? If there a salvational issue between believing that Jesus died on a Friday or a Wednesday afternoon? Is being doctrinally pure and having a "contractual"and formal relationship with Jesus more important than having an intimate and loving relationship with Jesus and having a slightly flawed doctrine? Is eating pork occasionally gonna send you to hell?

Romans 2 has an interesting answer as it speaks to the special case " when the gentiles who do not have the Law (the Word of God) do instinctively the things of the law - showing the works of the law to be written on their heart" (speaking of those who have no access to scripture at all) - they are regarded as spiritual "Jews".

James 4 also contributes to that idea.

"to him that knows to do right - and does it not - to him it is sin". James 4:17

However the verses in the OP are not about people outside the church, nor do they promote dividing up the church into a zillion fiefdoms with each person making up their own rules - but it is about error trying to make its way inside the church.

in Christ,

Bob

[Gibs]

Of course we know false doctrine will never be stopped in this time that is at it's finale. But yes it should be stopped and will be by our Great God and Saviour.

For our part, yes we should fight against it, starting with # 1, self making sure we are not a promoter of such.

A good starter would be for all to start calling sin by it's right name. Sin is taken very lightly today and actually condoned by so called Christians.

Truly a Christian if he isn't already dead to sin is working in his heart and soul to get it crushed and dead. Is it possible? Yes and I need not even post the scripture, we all know it.

His Blessings to all who will read and study and heed His Word!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[JoeMo]

Thanks, Bob. Realistically, I didn't expect sweeping, all-revealing answers to my questions. By asking them, I was merely trying to point out that it isn't an easy question to answer. There are two sources for Christian doctrine The Bible (Logos); and the Spirit (Rehma) The Spirit could well reveal different things to different people. For example, IMO, in the NT, Gentiles were held to a different law than were converted Jews> See Acts 15. In a nutshell, Peter says "God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear?" To this, James responds "we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood."

There is no mention of Sabbath, or feast days, or unclean foods, or circumcision - all things to which Jewish converts still adhered (at least at that time). In the end times, when people will flock to our churches wanting to know the truths that we hold dear, do we place on them the same requirements that we have placed on ourselves? Or do we accept them as they are, believing the fact that they are there is enough evidence that God is working in them?

I have seen powerful divine gifting in many who do not believe as I believe. I do not believe their gifts are from the devil simply because they aren't Adventists.

[BobRyan]

To this, James responds "we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood."

There is no mention of Sabbath, or feast days, or unclean foods, or circumcision - all things to which Jewish converts still adhered (at least at that time).

James points out that the Word of God is spoken every Sabbath in the synagogues and Acts 13, Acts 17:1-5 and Acts 18:4 remind us that those Sabbath services included both Jews and Gentiles hearing Gospel sermons.

In acts 15 the gentiles are not told to "Love God with all of their heart" Deut 6:5 or "to love their neighbor as themselves" Lev 19:18

It is not an indication that those laws did not apply.

As Adventists we are indeed blessed by the fact that well known evangelical sources such as R.C Sproul, D.L. Moody, Andy Stanley, Charles Stanley and commentary authors such as Matthew Henry - all fully affirm that continued authority of the Ten Commandments (yes all ten) - as well as the entire Catholic Church affirming it.

For us - that is not a debate we have standing on an island alone.

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

Of course we know false doctrine will never be stopped in this time that is at it's finale. But yes it should be stopped and will be by our Great God and Saviour.

For our part, yes we should fight against it, starting with # 1, self making sure we are not a promoter of such.

A good starter would be for all to start calling sin by it's right name. Sin is taken very lightly today and actually condoned by so called Christians.

Truly a Christian if he isn't already dead to sin is working in his heart and soul to get it crushed and dead. Is it possible? Yes and I need not even post the scripture, we all know it.

His Blessings to all who will read and study and heed His Word!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

That is true. However we need to start educating the flock so they can be informed - otherwise they become meat for every passing wolf.

in Christ,

Bob