Redemption in Spite of the Cross: My View About the Cross and God’s Fo

[Nic Samojluk]

Ellen White never refers to that as "all heaven paying the debt of our sins".[/quote]

The Bible states the following: "In all their afflictions, he was afflicted." Who suffers more when a child rebels and suffers the natural consequences of his/her rebellion? My suggestion is that the father suffers more than his child.

Suffering is the natural result of love. Where there is no love, there is no psychological suffering. Nobody can love as much as God does. His love for his children is infinite and beyond human comprehension.

This means to me that when we consider the cumulative pain and suffering experienced by God's children must have caused intense suffering on the Creator.

According to Ellen White, we failed to understand the effect of sin and rebellion on God, and the Lord permitted the cross so that we might have a glimpse of what are the results of sin on God.

This is far from you idea of paying a debt for sin. If suffering can be equated with a moral debt, then I am suggesting tha said debt was more than adequately paid by the time Jesus was born in Bethlehem, because the cumulative result of sin and rebellion was already experienced by God. The only problem was that we failed to understand this.

What I am proposing is that the sacrificial system was designed to help human beings understand this. Had the Jews realized the deep lessons contained in the killing of innocent animals, and had they accepteed Jesus as the promised Messiah and rightful King, the physical suffering of Jesus would have been superfluos.

What made his death necessary was the Jewish leaders rejecion of the Saviour sent to them by heaven. This is why God provided all the evidence in an attempt at preventing the killing of the Son of God. God even sent an angel to Pilate's wife to warn him not to condemn an innocent man.

You insist on the theory of payment. Payment to who? God's Law is a transcript of his character. God's character can never demand the most heinour crime ever committed in human history.

If God is the creditor, his payment to himself makes no logical sense. If I write a check and go to the bank and deposit it into my account, nothing has changed. My checking account will show the same amount of money in it. Such payment has accomplished nothing!

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

Ellen White told us that God's promises and threatenings are conditional. Read the story of Jonah the prophet!

The conditions are most often included in the counsel.

"If anyone wills to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God or whether I speak on My own authority."John 7:17 NKJV

Anyone know of any promises that do not state the conditions with the promise?

God blesses!

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

If I write a check and go to the bank and deposit it into my account, nothing has changed. My checking account will show the same amount of money in it. Such payment has accomplished nothing!

Having an account in two different banks can change the circumstances though. That is why investing in this world is only helpful when it is done in the name of Jesus.

"Those who love their life in this world will lose it. Those who care nothing for their life in this world will keep it for eternity."John 12:25 NLT

God blesses!

[Nic Samojluk]

Having an account in two different banks can change the circumstances though. That is why investing in this world is only helpful when it is done in the name of Jesus.

When I transfer some funds from one bank to another my assets have not been altered.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

When I transfer some funds from one bank to another my assets have not been altered.

At least while we're on this earth unless one considers the Scripture that says we reap what we sow. And that which we bury has eternal consequences.

"His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful slave. You were faithful with a few things, I will put you in charge of many things; enter into the joy of your master.’

“And the one also who had received the one talent came up and said, ‘Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow and gathering where you scattered no seed. And I was afraid, and went away and hid your talent in the ground. See, you have what is yours.’

“But his master answered and said to him, ‘You wicked, lazy slave, you knew that I reap where I did not sow and gather where I scattered no seed. Then you ought to have put my money in the bank, and on my arrival I would have received my money back with interest."Matt 25:23-27 NASB

God blesses!

[12tribes]

Genesis 2:17

(17) But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Genesis 3:3

(3) But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

Romans 6:23

(23) For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 3:23

(23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Because all have sinned then all need to die because the wages of sin is death. Christ who is God died in our place so that all who are in Christ no longer are condemned.

[Nic Samojluk]

Because all have sinned then all need to die because the wages of sin is death. Christ who is God died in our place so that all who are in Christ no longer are condemned.

And we all die! Don't we?

According to the Bible, are we saved by Jesus death or by his life?