Robert Posted October 20, 2012 Posted October 20, 2012 Paul tells us that "agape is not self-seeking". What does that mean? 1 Cor 13:3 "If I give all I possess to the poor... but have not love, nothing is gained (i.e., the act is meaningless)." You see if you gave all your possessions away (which is unheard of), but it was done outside God's agape, then the act of giving away your possessions was done for a selfish motive. Maybe the motive was to get your name in the paper, or perhaps CNN will put you on TV, etc.? The point is agape has no selfish motive in it. Now, please tell me your motive for keeping the Sabbath? Don't be so dumb as to tell me that you keep the Sabbath because the law requires you to and if you don't keep it that you won't obtain heaven! Why? Because that's not agape and Paul says "agape is the fulfillment of the law"! It takes agape to keep the law, otherwise you aren't keeping the law - you are keeping sin. In other words if you keep the Sabbath to be saved (salvation by works) you are keeping the law in order to be saved. That's not agape. Why? You are doing something (keeping the Sabbath) so that you might get something in return (heaven)? Now, can you tell me why you keep the Sabbath? Quote
Robert Posted October 20, 2012 Author Posted October 20, 2012 Keeping the Sabbath in order to gain heaven is salvation by works. Salvation by works is a form of unbelief. It's saying that Christ's finished work of redemption is incomplete and that I, through my Sabbath keeping, can add to His incomplete work. If that's your view Sabbath keeping then in reality you aren't keeping the Sabbath. You are doing works of iniquity - works done for a reward. Hence you are not keeping the Sabbath, you are keeping sin. Quote
12tribes Posted October 21, 2012 Posted October 21, 2012 We should be keeping the sabbath of the Lord because it is a delight. We should look forward to the sabbath. Quote Galatians 3:29(29) And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Gibs Posted October 21, 2012 Posted October 21, 2012 It, the Sabbath is a special festive time to spend with the one you love first and best over all. He has come to tabernacle with His beloved ones who love Him over all and shed light upon them. His Spirit is felt in the heart soul and mind in a deep way that brings peace and tranquility. Spiritually we are in fellowship with all His True ones of men and Angels as the Angels also keep Sabbath as we are in sync with Heaven. It is The Sabbath for the total of His Hosts. That is revealed by Enoch. At the same time He marks us with a mark that we cannot see but Angels Holy and evil can, yes and Satan. Filled with enough Spirit to run stronger in him the following six days after! Plus with the indwelling of Jesus we are well equiped to walk upright in Him! We are Blessed! 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. Quote A Freeman In Jesus Christ
Robert Posted October 21, 2012 Author Posted October 21, 2012 We should be keeping the sabbath of the Lord because it is a delight. We should look forward to the sabbath. Okay, not of fear. Is that what you are saying? Now, another question, what does it mean "to keep"? Do you mean following rules, don't do this or that? Quote
Robert Posted October 21, 2012 Author Posted October 21, 2012 It, the Sabbath is a special festive time to spend with the one you love first and best over all. He has come to tabernacle with His beloved ones who love Him over all and shed light upon them. His Spirit is felt in the heart soul and mind in a deep way that brings peace and tranquility. That's great, but I can't find what you are stating in the 4th commandment. It says to "rest" - stop working. Why? Quote
Gibs Posted October 21, 2012 Posted October 21, 2012 We sure do cease from our work on Sabbath and the keeping is of Love. Without Love and true faith, not presumption it is impossible to please Him. 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. Quote A Freeman In Jesus Christ
Robert Posted October 21, 2012 Author Posted October 21, 2012 We sure do cease from our work on Sabbath and the keeping is of Love. Yes, that's nice, but what does not working on the Sabbath symbolize? I need you to use your Bible, not conjecture. Quote
Gibs Posted October 21, 2012 Posted October 21, 2012 We rest in Him continually. We have no fear of what is coming upon the world. By our love for him and righteousness as we know He is righteousness we have true faith we please Him as our will is as His will. We are at peace and rest. 1Jo 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. Quote A Freeman In Jesus Christ
Robert Posted October 21, 2012 Author Posted October 21, 2012 I need Bible verses, in context, and not speculation. As Ellen would say, "The Bible and the Bible only"....But then again, I could never get an answer on the gospel, so why should I expect you to tell me why one rests on the Sabbath. Quote
Gibs Posted October 21, 2012 Posted October 21, 2012 Robert it is not only physical but spiritual. Read chapter Rev 14: and you will see those who go forth preaching the everlasting Gospel it is said of them, "here are they that keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus.. 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. Quote A Freeman In Jesus Christ
12tribes Posted October 21, 2012 Posted October 21, 2012 Originally Posted By: 12tribes We should be keeping the sabbath of the Lord because it is a delight. We should look forward to the sabbath. Okay, not of fear. Is that what you are saying? Now, another question, what does it mean "to keep"? Do you mean following rules, don't do this or that? John 14:21 (KJV) 21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. We are given the commandments and keep them Quote Galatians 3:29(29) And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
JoeMo Posted October 21, 2012 Posted October 21, 2012 Hi Robert, Is there a difference between "keeping" the sabbath and "observing" the Sabbath? I think so. If we are being legalistic, we "keep" the Sabbath in order to meet the requirements of the Law. If we "observe" the Sabbath, we ar doing it out of honor and love (agape) for the Lord Jesus. If one looks at the Hebrew, the word "holy" means to "keep separate"; not to "keep sacred". When we "observe someone's birthday or anniversary, we don't usually do it out of obligation, we do it out of love. So it is with the Sabbath. We should do it as a day to "hang out" with God. If we do it out of obligation rather than love, we are trying to earn our salvation; and you and I both know that doesn't work. BTW, when Paul says "if we give all our possessions to the poor, but have not love ...", I don't think Paul means that we are expected to give everything away; I think he's using it as a superlative example that any good deeds we do that is not motivated by love is meaningless. Quote
Robert Posted October 22, 2012 Author Posted October 22, 2012 Robert it is not only physical but spiritual. Read chapter Rev 14: and you will see those who go forth preaching the everlasting Gospel it is said of them, "here are they that keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus.. That's not an answer. I didn't think I would get one. Quote
Robert Posted October 22, 2012 Author Posted October 22, 2012 We are given the commandments and keep them Really? You love your neighbor as you love yourself? Well, we are off subject. Let's get back to the Sabbath. Quote
Robert Posted October 22, 2012 Author Posted October 22, 2012 Hi Robert, Is there a difference between "keeping" the sabbath and "observing" the Sabbath? I think so. If we are being legalistic, we "keep" the Sabbath in order to meet the requirements of the Law. If we "observe" the Sabbath, we are doing it out of honor and love (agape) for the Lord Jesus. Quote
Gibs Posted October 22, 2012 Posted October 22, 2012 Ex 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Ex 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: Ex 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: Ex 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. We are to rest as He did, no work or seeking your own pleasure, you are to KEEP it Holy, in no way defile it. 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. Quote A Freeman In Jesus Christ
Robert Posted October 22, 2012 Author Posted October 22, 2012 Ex 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.Ex 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: Ex 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work...[why?] Ex 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. If we connect this back to Gen 2:2 we see why He rested in more detail: "So the heavens (Sun & planets) and the earth and everything in them were completed (finished). 2 By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing. So on the seventh day he rested from all of his work. Why did God stop working? Because His work of creation stood perfect & sinless. So when you rest you agreeing with God that His creative work is perfect and without blemish (sinless). Quote
12tribes Posted October 22, 2012 Posted October 22, 2012 Originally Posted By: 12tribes We are given the commandments and keep them Really? You love your neighbor as you love yourself? Well, we are off subject. Let's get back to the Sabbath. You asked what it means to keep and I answered you so it is not off topic. We are given the commandments as the text says which I quoted, we are given His righteousness as a gift and we keep it. We do not keep the law to be righteous, we are made righteous, given commandments and then keep Quote Galatians 3:29(29) And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Robert Posted October 22, 2012 Author Posted October 22, 2012 You asked what it means to keep and I answered you so it is not off topic. We are given the commandments as the text says which I quoted, we are given His righteousness as a gift and we keep it. We do not keep the law to be righteous, we are made righteous, given commandments and then keep So you don't know why you keep the Sabbath, you just do it? Didn't God say, "Come let us reason"? Yes, so please tell me why you rest - what's the significance? Quote
Gibs Posted October 22, 2012 Posted October 22, 2012 Hmmm, Because Father knows best and we know it is for our good or He wouldn't have suggested it and we love above all so we are glad and come and rest with Him and sit at His feet Spiritually. 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. Quote A Freeman In Jesus Christ
Robert Posted October 22, 2012 Author Posted October 22, 2012 Hmmm, Because Father knows best and we know it is for our good or He wouldn't have suggested it and we love above all so we are glad and come and rest with Him and sit at His feet Spiritually. That's not what the 4th commandment says. You are adding to the law. The Sabbath commandment says to rest because God finished His perfect work of creation on the 7th-day. By resting you are agreeing that His work is perfect and complete. Quote
Gibs Posted October 22, 2012 Posted October 22, 2012 No Robert He comes to tabernacle with us Spiritually every seventh day and we rest and He rests. 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. Quote A Freeman In Jesus Christ
Robert Posted October 22, 2012 Author Posted October 22, 2012 No Robert He comes to tabernacle with us Spiritually every seventh day and we rest and He rests. 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. That's not what the 4th commandment says. You are adding to the law. Quote
12tribes Posted October 22, 2012 Posted October 22, 2012 So you don't know why you keep the Sabbath, you just do it? Didn't God say, "Come let us reason"? Yes, so please tell me why you rest - what's the significance? It looks like you are trying to make yovrself look good. Quote Galatians 3:29(29) And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
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