Perfect vs. Blameless

[Gail]

Just heard a neat point given by Eugene Prewitt:

When he did a topical search on "perfect" he found that it is a word that pertains to us in our everyday walk with Jesus, NOT in an eschatological sense (end time).

When researching about the harvest, the word to consider is, "ripe". The crop is perfect as it can be during every stage of growth, but it is only ready for harvest when it is ripe.

So then he switched his focus (for the end-time state of God's people) to words such as, "blameless", "spotless", "without rebuke". All of those words have to do with the end time status of God's people.

Do you see a difference between "perfect," and "blameless"?

I see both as only possible through the power and merits of Jesus.

[Gail]

Jesus is the Author and Finisher of our faith, AMEN?

[Naomi]

Very good ... AMEN!

[Woody]

Good Gail

[Gibs]

Gail stated,

"I see both as only possible through the power and merits of Jesus."

That is the only way as weak as we have become here in these times. "Christ in You",

Great and true statement from Paul.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Robert]

All this talk on perfection, etc shows how insecure we Christians are when it comes to our salvation. That's because too many SDA believe that they must keep the law in order to be justified before God. That's legalism.

Instead we should rest in Christ's finished works (the gospel) and any fruit that comes from our resting will take care of itself.

[BobRyan]

In the Gospel Jesus is "Just AND the JustifIER" of those that seek Him.

And thus as Romans 3 points out the answer to the question "What then do we make void the Law of God by our faith?" -- is a resounding "Certainly NOT! In fact we ESTABLISH the Law of God".

Because of course under the ONE Gospel - the LAW of God is "written on the mind and on the heart" - we call it "the New Covenant".

Thus Paul can say to the saints "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19

And John can say of them "they KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12.

in Christ,

Bob

[Robert]

And thus as Romans 3 points out the answer to the question "What then do we make void the Law of God by our faith?" -- is a resounding "Certainly NOT! In fact we ESTABLISH the Law of God".

Let me ask you a question. If you stand before the judgment seat of God today, and the law says to you, “Have you obeyed me?” What are you going to say?

“Well, we have been taught that the law no longer applies.”

And God will say, “Who told you that?”

“Well, some theologian with a Ph.D.”

And God will say, “Since when was he your Saviour?”

The Bible is the measuring stick of truth. And the Bible says [Heb. 9:22]:

In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

On the cross, Jesus met the justice of the law. And, by His life, He met the positive demands of the law. And when I stand before the judgment seat of God, and the law of God says to me, “Have you obeyed me?” I will not say to the law, “Well, I did my best.”

The law says, “I did not ask that question.”

“Well, I kept most of the law.”

The law will say, “I did not ask you that question either. Have you obeyed me in every detail?”

“Well, I goofed up a few times.”

And the law says, “I’m sorry, you must die. Once is enough.”

But I thank God I will not answer the law that way. I will say, “Yes, I have obeyed you perfectly.”

The law will say, “When did you obey me perfectly?”

“When I was in Christ. Then I had perfect obedience.”

But the law will say, “You’re a sinner, you must die.”

And I will say to the law, “Well I have bad news for you, I have already died.”

The law will say, “When did you die?”

I will quote to the law Galatians 2:20:

I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live....

The law will say, “Well, if that’s your position, then you are free to live.”

And I will say to the law, “Thank you.”

Because, in Christ, the law has been established on behalf of you and me. That is what verse 31 says. God doesn’t bypass His law to justify us. God holds His integrity to His law when He justifies me through His Son Jesus Christ. Because, in His Son’s holy history, God has met every demand of the law for you and for me. That is the “good news” of the Gospel.

[JoeMo]

Gail - great question! I posed a similar question in another thread about being perfect and Mark's passage about the stalk, the head, and the full kernel in the head - all phases of the grain are perfect.

Robert - great post above. I love the dialog and your conclusion.

[BobRyan]

In the Gospel Jesus is "Just AND the JustifIER" of those that seek Him.

And thus as Romans 3 points out the answer to the question "What then do we make void the Law of God by our faith?" -- is a resounding "Certainly NOT! In fact we ESTABLISH the Law of God".

Because of course under the ONE Gospel - the LAW of God is "written on the mind and on the heart" - we call it "the New Covenant".

Thus Paul can say to the saints "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19

And John can say of them "they KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12.

[BobRyan]

here then is the relationship of the SAVED to the Law of God. It is not the way that the LOST becomes Saved - but under the Gospel that frees from the PENALTY of sin AND from SLAVERY to sin -- it is the relationship (according to the BIBLE) that the saved person has to the law of God - as opposed to the lost person.

======================

Understanding the condition of the lost and their position when it comes to the Law of God and sin - is step 1. No need to constantly "circle back" to it each time the Bible texts speaking to the saints on the subject of the Law written on their hearts and minds is brought up.

So for those willing to look at the Bible teaching about the saved - the saved person is under the New Covenant with the "Law written on the mind and on the heart" Hebrews 8, Jer 31:31-33. Thus as Paul says in Rom 3:31 "Do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW of God" Rom 3:31

For example --

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God".

And in the chapter just before that Paul says to Christians that he is reproving for their sins -

1Cor 6

9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,

10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

Romans 6

10For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.

11Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

12Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts,

13and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead,

13 -and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.

14For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

15What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be!

16Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?

Rev 14:12 - the saints are those who "KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"

1 John 2

1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;

James 2

8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF," you are doing well.

9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors.

10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.

11 For He who said, "DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY," also said, "DO NOT COMMIT MURDER." Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.

12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty

1John 2

The Test of Knowing Him

3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.

4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.

6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

John 14:15 "If you love Me KEEP My commandments"

John 15:14 "Love Me and KEEP My Commandments"

Taken right out of the Ten Commandments -- in this case commandment number 3.

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

Having looked at the example of the saved and how they relate to God's law, let us now "circle back" to the problem that the lost person has when it comes to the law of God. The lost person has a very different relationship to God's Law and the solution for them is not "obey better" or even "be a better well behaved lost person".

let us look in detail.

Romans 8

6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace,

7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the Law of God, for it is not even able to do so,

8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.God.

The lost person is not under the Gospel - just under the condemnation of the Law. They have a broken relationship with God and are only condemned by HIS Law. HIS Law is not written on their mind and heart. Rather they are in rebellion against it.

The saved Person is under the New Covenant with the "Law written on the mind and on the heart" Hebrews 8, Jer 31:31-33. Thus as Paul says in Rom 3:31 "Do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW of God" Rom 3:31

The heart of the lost person is in rebellion against the Law of God - it does not submit to the Law of God - "neither indeed can it".

More on the lost person's perspective on the Law of God and sin - according to the Bible.

Rom 3:

9 What shall we conclude then? Are we any better ? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin.

10 As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one;

12 All have turned aside, together they have become useless; There is non that does good, there is not even one.''

13 "" Their throat is an open grave, with their tongues they keep deceiving,'' "" the poison of asps is under their lips'';

14 "" Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness'';

15 "" their feet are swift to shed blood,

16 Destruction and misery are in their paths,

17 And the path of peace they have not known.''

18 "" There is no fear of God before their eyes.''

Rom 3:20 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.

Rom 3:23...for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God

1 John 1:8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us

Romans 8

6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace,

7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the Law of God, for it is not even able to do so,

8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

1Cor 6

9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,

10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

1 John 2

4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Romans 3 and Galatians 3 agree - that lost are lost. No amount of obedience on the part of the lost - can save them.

The lost person has only one solution - the Gospel with its forgiveness, and new birth, and new heart and freedom from the penalty of sin - and freedom from slavery to sin.

Clearly - we all can see this part. No need to keep circling back to it in an effort to avoid what the Bible says to saved saints by comparison.

in Christ,

Bob

[Gerr]

One can be imperfect and yet be perfectly blameless. For example: If I inadvertently make a miscalculation in my tithe and short-change the Lord, would He impute the sin of theft to me?

[Woody]

excellent Robert

[Gibs]

Keeping His Commandments is only "works" if it is trying to be done from anything but All the Heart and Soul and Mind's love.

When we truly Love Him above all and He is our meditation all the day long with no intermissions the Commandments have been keep perfectly. Love does it. How so? Pilgrims it is the Law of Love. Love is the fulfilling of the Law.

How much do we love Him? If you can't and don't keep the commandments I assure you, not enough!

Joh 14:15 ¶ If ye love me, keep my commandments.

1Jo 2:3 ¶ And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

1Jo 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1Jo 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

Now I must ask, who is your master?

Ro 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

1Jo 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Christ in you is the answer, when He is loved most of all by you He abides in You. Self is not the topmost love no more!

Now all things are possible to you.

No excuses excepted!

Php 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.