Let's Talk About Spiritual Formation

[debbym]

there is a spiritual formation that is benign, but the same language is also used for a system of spiritual growth that is not straight.

(3) A new type of spirituality is promoted:

 Revelation is re-interpreted

 The kingdom of God is re-interpreted

 A Social Gospel is promoted instead of the Gospel of Salvation.

 The mystical and experimental is emphasized, and mystery is to be embraced rather than conquered. Emerging Church leaders are urging a return to Catholic mystic spirituality.

http://adventistlaymen.com/Documents/RC%...ng%20Church.pdf

[debbym]

"As we have often said, the premise of contemplative spirituality is that all paths lead to God and that God (or Divinity) is within every human being. This, of course, completely negates the gospel message of Jesus Christ and the belief that man is utterly sinful and can only be saved through faith in Christ. All paths will not lead to God, and there is no divinity within man unless that Divinity is the person of Jesus Christ who lives in the heart of the born-again soul."

http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/?m=20060815

[JoeMo]

So debjm,

In your opinion, are the trances experienced by the apostles, EGW, and other modern Christian mystics the deceptive works of the devil; or just the ones that occurred after EGW's death? What about prayer languages (aka speaking in tongues? Are modern miraculous healings and resurrections works of the devil? Is visualizing Jesus' presence with you during prayer wrong? Is waiting for (even expecting) God to give you some sort of answer to your prayers heretical? Do we need to let the leadership of a man-made denomination define our relationship with God; or should that be a personal matter? Are we saved by grace and our relationship with God, or by blindly following the edicts of some control freaks at the top of the denominational food chain?

[Stan]

Trances? REALLY?

leadership of a MAN MADE denomination? REALLY?

Saved by GRACE of by the denominational food chain? REALLY?

[JoeMo]

Yes Stan, really. I love my church; but I also love the depth of my personal relationship with God. "Trance" may be a bad word - "Dreams and Visions" might be better terminology. Yes, Adventism is a man-made denomination; and as practiced (as opposed to as stated in the 28 fundamentals), there are some odd folks out there (I'm likely one of them).

Why shouldn't we have the same experiences as the prophets and apostles? Why shouldn't we seek to "hear" God's voice; to "see" Him in action; to prophecy, and receive "visions"?

I practice what some here would call "spiritual formation" as a charismatic Christian; because I see it as biblical and a significant enhancement to my relationship wth God. Those who don't probably shouldn't practice it; but no one has a right to define my personal relationship with God except God. Conversely, I have no right to push my spiritual standards, desires, and expectations on others.

[debbym]

Joemo,

The work of the Holy Spirit is not comprised of humanly generated trances, and glossolalia, Christian mysticism, or anything we can generate at will from our own humanity.

The word of God brought home by the Holy Spirit is the source of true faith that brings us everything. "When the Spirit is come he will convict the world of sin, righteousness and judgement because the prince of this world is judged." "Faith cometh by hearing, hearing cometh by the word of God."

simply taking God at his word, and putting all the weight of our sin, and all the weight of our need, and the sin and needs of all those around us, on the Promises of God, this is where we can remain balanced, and at peace.

"If we confess our sin he is faithful and just to forgive us our sin and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we walk in the light as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another and the Blood of Jesus Christ His son cleanse us from all sin. My God shall supply all of your needs according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus."

we have over 3000 other sacred promises of God to draw on that are backed up by the Authority of the The Holy Spirit, The Father, and Jesus Christ. "And this is life eternal that they might know thee and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent." Simply Knowing God, intimately knowing His amazing character, has the power to save us. "By beholding we are transformed. Look unto me and be ye saved all ends of the earth....."

we can take these words by faith and rest everything on them, and be at peace, and be in a right relationship with God, and live.

using exercises of our mind, our emotions, speech, whatever it is that we might learn to find some device take hold of God, other then calm simple faith in his word, is not the work of the Holy Spirit, but the work of our flesh. God understands our vulnerability to want something more to make God more tangible. But He also understands the power and nature and danger and of our sinful nature.

His ways, His plan excludes anything we can do to obtain his blessings in order to protect us, and set a boundary between righteousness and unrighteousness. It is ours to receive His work, His labors. God has saved us, God has made us, not we ourselves. We can do nothing to add to what God has done, and what he will do in finishing up this matter of evil in His universe.

It is ours to accept and obey and surrender, and trust, and exercise our faith in what he has done and is doing and will do. Even then it is God that is working in us both to will and to do of His Good will. We cannot even come to him, cannot even obey without his working in us, we are that weakened by sin to do anything of ourselves to make us right with God.

It is God's plan for us to overcome this world by faith, not by any form of works or spiritual exercises. This is how it is and has been since sin took hold in the human race, until we are restored to the privilege of face to face communication once again. "This is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith." Faith In God's word. Jesus did not meet Satan's challenges in the desert with trances or glossolalia, it was by the word of God spoken in love and truth, and this is the same for us.

i will rest this.... i believe you are utterly sincere Joemo, and God loves you and is working to ever lead you to a faith that will completely overcome the world.

debjm

[JoeMo]

debjm,

You are truly a gem; and I believe God speaks to you; just by how blessed I am by your words. It may not be what you call "spiritual formation", but I just felt God's love through your words.

I can only speak of my experiences. I didn't even know that the things that our church has been experiencing were called "spiritual formation" until this thread started. We all just felt (and still do feel) that it is God pouring out His latter day rain and spirit upon us. It's not like we are actively incorporating eastern or Catholic mysticism into our church culture. We have been actively and consistently seeking the Holy Spirit; and stuff just "happens". If one follows the saying of "By their fruits you shall know them", my perception is that no one is being hurt or spiritually damaged by what is happening; I'm seeing nothing but spiritual growth and obedience to God's laws by the power of His grace.

Blessings to you; Happy Sabbath; and Merry Christmas!

JoeMo

[John317]

Yes, Adventism is a man-made denomination;

If I thought that's all it is, I would leave it.

I believe the Bible evidence is that God raised up the Seventh-day Adventist Church and that this church is a fulfillment of prophecy.

[Woody]

Quote:

I didn't even know that the things that our church has been experiencing were called "spiritual formation" until this thread started.

JoeMe - If you are interested Andrews University has a lot of good classes in "Spiritual Formation". I have a friend that got a Doctorate in Spiritual Formation there.

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted By: JoeMo

Yes, Adventism is a man-made denomination;

If I thought that's all it is, I would leave it.

I believe the Bible evidence is that God raised up the Seventh-day Adventist Church and that this church is a fulfillment of prophecy.

As it turns out - our very NAME was given by God.

The above would be like calling the ministry of John the baptizer "a man made ministry" or that of Noah "a man-made ministry". Makes no sense.

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

Derek Morris was involved in it until he discovered that it was not a good thing. Then he stopped teaching it and recanted his former involvement. Admissions against interest are powerful. He further stated that many decent people have only seen the good side of it and defend it without knowing its dark side.

He could be right.

g

[JoeMo]

Quote:

JoeMe - If you are interested Andrews University has a lot of good classes in "Spiritual Formation". I have a friend that got a Doctorate in Spiritual Formation there.

Thanks Woody, but no thanks. The Bible and the Holy Spirit can teach me all I need to know about spiritual things.

[JoeMo]

Quote:

As it turns out - our very NAME was given by God.

Really Bob? I'd love to see the chapter and verse in scripture that contains the words Seventh Day Adventist or even Adventist. EGW saying so doesn't count.

[JoeMo]

Quote:

I believe the Bible evidence is that God raised up the Seventh-day Adventist Church and that this church is a fulfillment of prophecy.

Hey, John. I agree to a certain extent - there are aspects of Adventism that are soundly based on biblical principle that are unique to the Adventist church. If I didn't find Adventism the "best" of Christian denominations, I would be something else. I also find Adventists to be among the most intelligent Christians.

[Woody]

Quote:

If I didn't find Adventism the "best" of Christian denominations, I would be something else. I also find Adventists to be among the most intelligent Christians.

[John317]

As it turns out - our very NAME [seventh-day Adventist, ed.] was given by God.

The above would be like calling the ministry of John the baptizer "a man made ministry" or that of Noah "a man-made ministry". Makes no sense.

I completely agree.

[John317]

[debbym]

http://www.andrews.edu/sem/response.html

courses given a name change,

now called "biblical spirituality"

The sda general conference voted in 2005 to add a new belief called "growing in Christ".

i believe we needed this.

it seems to me over and over every genuine thing has a counterfeit, and many times, many counterfeits to bring confusion and hinder.

deb

[Restin]

Just speaking as a church goer, not a scholar, I find the title, "Spiritual Formation" to be so generic that it's almost indecipherable. We are warned against "meditation" and "centering". Does that mean we aren't supposed to think at all about God, or listen for the "still small voice" of the "Holy Spirit"? I can see many Adventists becoming totally confused. In other words, don't empty your mind or think, just do your daily chores and do what the preacher says, Sister White says, etc." Is Spiritual Formation just a new phrase for hypnotism, or self-hypnotism? That, I can understand. I know how to stay away from that. As for "Centering" I always thought that meant to develop an organized mind instead of bouncing all over the place from one whim to another. I just wonder if Satan has managed to name this movement "Spiritual Formation" diliberately to get us Adventists dangerously distracted trying to figure out what to do.

[debbym]

Quote:

Poster: Restin

I just wonder if Satan has managed to name this movement "Spiritual Formation" deliberately to get us Adventists dangerously distracted trying to figure out what to do.

i got distressed when i was first learning about this, then faith caught up with me, and i trusted God was working through this, and i had done my part in sharing it with my friends so they could be awake. I was worried at first as if some terrible force was going to destroy my church.

There is a force working to destroy my church and everything from God, but God does have it all in hand. He saw it all coming and has made provision. The provision is in the Intercession of Jesus and applied through the present working of the Holy Spirit.

debjm

[olger]

Originally Posted By: Stan

How much of it has infiltrated Adventism? Good question. It reminds me of when I was becoming and Adventist and I heard so many stories that were spread by cassettes on how Speaking in Tongues had done the same.

...If this was the huge issue some proclaim it to be, where are all these people and what are their fruits?

HOWEVER it is a good way to raise funds.

Paranoia has been presented, and it has hijacked the Church in so many area when we should be proclaiming the soon coming return of our Lord.

I take it, then, (Am I right?)that your answer is that SF based on Mysticism hasn't entered into the Seventh-day Adventist Church at all-- or at least not to any extent that makes it worth talking about or that should make it a legitimate cause of concern within the church.

I personally have not seen any evidence of the kind of SF that president Wilson and others on the videos have talked about, but then I realize I can't possibly see everything that goes on in the church. I have to depend on other people to inform me of what's happening in the church on a world-wide scale. That's really the whole purpose of this discussion. I didn't start the thread with my mind already made up about the topic.

But I do find it difficult to believe that all of these people whom I respect and admire as leaders in our church are talking & writing about something that is either unimportant, non-existent, or merely the result of paranoia.

When it comes to proclaiming the soon return of Christ, I see no conflict with talking about the dangers of unbiblical SF and talking about Christ's coming for His church. In fact, most of the videos I posted make the case that Christ's soon coming makes it necessary for SDAs to be warned against accepting dangerous teachings such as those found in some kinds of spiritual formation.

Come to Ohio, you will see many things. Seriously

[debbym]

Quote:

Come to Ohio, you will see many things. Seriously

yes it is serious there, and in places in Washington and California, it is a real concern in the SDA church.

i don't even want to take the energy to be pointing it out in the specific areas. It is in God's hands completely.

debjm

[Johann]

I read a very "dangerous" statement recently, but now I cannot find it. So I'll just give it by memory.

It said that if you find out that someone in church if following some strange doctrine or evil deeds corrupting the church, you must go to the individual and have him explain to you what is really going on. You might discover that it is not what you thought it is when you let the person give you his own account. When you get it from someone else it might sound so terrible that you feel sure something must be done immediately to save the church. This might not be the case if you talk to the people involved, and this is what you have to do first of all.

Is this heresy? Perhaps we should check if this person had the right to be called a Seventh-day Adventist? Her maiden name was something like Harmon, and she lived about a hundred years ago. Ever heard of her? Can you help me find the quotation?

[JoeMo]

Quote:

It said that if you find out that someone in church if following some strange doctrine or evil deeds corrupting the church, you must go to the individual and have him explain to you what is really going on. You might discover that it is not what you thought it is when you let the person give you his own account.

AMEN, Johann! Very well stated.

Quote:

Perhaps we should check if this person had the right to be called a Seventh-day Adventist? Her maiden name was something like Harmon, and she lived about a hundred years ago. Ever heard of her?

I don't know if this is a serious question, but Harmon is the maiden name of the prophet of the Seventh-Day Adventist Church - Ellen White. I don't know where the quote is located.

[JoeMo]

Quote:

There is a force working to destroy my church and everything from God, but God does have it all in hand. He saw it all coming and has made provision. The provision is in the Intercession of Jesus and applied through the present working of the Holy Spirit.

Awesome sentiment, deb - simply awesome!

Blessings to you!