Proof for Impossibility of a non-Wednesday Crucifixion

[Samie]

In another thread, it was shown how Scriptures explicitly describe the Savior’s Crucifixion to have occurred on a Wednesday, and that 3 days and 3 nights later, on early Saturday morning, He resurrected.

This thread will focus on the reason why it is impossible for our Savior to have been crucified on a different day other than Wednesday.

Recall that our Savior Jesus Christ came to fulfil the law, including the law on when Passover is to be celebrated. Notice His words:

Quote:

ESV Matthew 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

So what was written in the Law relative to the celebration of Passover?

Quote:

Numbers 9:2-3 2 Let the children of Israel also keep the passover at his appointed season. 3 In the fourteenth day of this month, at even, ye shall keep it in his appointed season: according to all the rites of it, and according to all the ceremonies thereof, shall ye keep it.

One of the reasons given for the creation of the sun and the moon is to serve as basis for appointed seasons (from Hebrew “mo`ed”):

Quote:

Genesis 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years

What is the “appointed season” on which Passover need to be celebrated?

Quote:

NASB Psalm 81:3-5 3 Blow the trumpet at the new moon, At the full moon, on our feast day. 4 For it is a statute for Israel, An ordinance of the God of Jacob. 5 He established it for a testimony in Joseph, When he went throughout the land of Egypt.

The Creator had ordained that Passover be celebrated on a full moon. It could not be otherwise. The Hebrew calendar is lunisolar and follows the phases of the moon whose cycle was set by the Creator. The lunar cycle ( the period from new moon to full moon and back from full moon to new moon) is on the average 29 days 12 hours and 44 minutes and this sees to it that there is full moon 14 days and 18 hours from new moon. This explains why Passover celebration is on the night immediately following Nisan 14 on the lunisolar calendar, because by then the moon is shining full.

Christ, through Whom the Father created the worlds, surely could not lose track of when the full moon is to occur that Paschal week. In consonance with the appointed season He himself was privy to, notice that His Passover celebration was a day ahead of the national celebration of the Jews whose official crescent observer may have seen the young crescent a day late. But Christ knew exactly when full moon will occur. And along with His disciples, He celebrated Passover right in its appointed season, when the moon was full.

It was on the daytime following the nighttime on which He celebrated Passover with His disciples when our Lord was crucified. Because He celebrated Passover on occurrence of the full moon, the daytime following the full moon occurrence was when our Lord was crucified.

To be continued...

[Samie]

There are existing data provided by the NASA for which full moon occurrences could be traced back to the probable year when the Lord was crucified. All we need to do is look for the first full moon occurrence after the vernal or spring equinox. Here is the pertinent data from 30 AD to 34 AD (Universal Time; add 2 hours to find the corresponding Jerusalem Time):

(Source: http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/phase/phases0001.html):

To determine the weekday for the corresponding date, visit

http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/JulianDate.php

Full Moon occurrences:

Quote:

1. Thursday April 6, 30 AD 19:42

2. Tuesday March 27, 31 AD 10:55

3. Wednesday April 25, 31 AD 19:59

4. Monday April 14, 32 AD 9:00

5. Friday April 3, 33 AD 14:51

6. Tuesday March 23, 34 AD 15:25

7. Thursday April 22, 34 AD 7:29

From the lunar data above shown, we have FIVE (5) different weekdays of full moon occurrence: Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday & Friday. Obviuosly, Monday and Friday cannot qualify. We skip Tuesday first.

If Christ celebrated Passover on Wednesday evening, April 25, 31 AD, then He was crucified Thursday. It would follow that Thursday April 26 was prosabbaton, making Friday the ceremonial Sabbath in that paschal week. Since Mark records that it was when the ceremonial Sabbath was past that the women bought spices, this would make the women buy spices on the weekly Sabbath, which just can’t be possible, because nothing was sold in the marketplace during Sabbaths, ceremonial or weekly.

Did Christ celebrate Passover, Thursday night? We have two dates for full moon occurrence falling on a Thursday: April 6, 30 AD and April 22, 34 AD. Obviously, 34 AD is quite late. We are then left with April 6, 30 AD. But it looks like Scriptures cannot allow the possibility Christ could have celebrated Passover on the night of April 6, 30 AD. Why?

Luke records that Jesus was baptized on the 15th year of Tiberius’ reign as Emperor (see Luke 3:1, 21). History has it that Tiberius started his reign 14 AD. His 15th year therefore is 28 AD. There is then no escaping that in consonance with Scripture specification, Christ was baptized in 28 AD, the 15th year of Tiberius’ reign. John bears witness that after His baptism, Jesus spent 3 Passovers including the one just before His crucifixion (see John 2:13; 6:4; 11:55). The Passover in 28 AD cannot possibly be counted, because the Jews start their religious year in the month of Nisan or Abib, the Passover month, and the Passover that year, in all probability, had already passed when Jesus was baptized. This can be gleaned from the fact that after His baptism, His first miracle done at Cana came just days before a Passover feast (see John 2:11-13).

Because Passover is an annual feast, the 3 possible Passover feasts Christ celebrated after His baptism in 28 AD, were those in 29, 30 & 31 AD. This makes evident that Thursday, April 6, 30 AD cannot qualify as candidate for Christ’s last Passover celebration, because it would only account for 2 Passover feasts attended by Jesus before His crucifixion as against the 3 Passover feasts recorded by John. Thursday, April 6, 30 AD therefore fails to pass the test.

If Christ, as many believe, celebrated Passover on Thursday, April 26, 31 AD, then believers of this view cannot escape the fact that Jesus violated the Passover law by not celebrating Passover on a full moon. But Christ said He came to fulfill the law, which must necessarily include celebrating Passover in its proper season, on a full moon. Because April 26, 31 AD was not a full moon, Christ simply won’t celebrate Passover on that date because in doing so He would be breaking the law He said He came to fulfill.

We are then left with only the date for data No. 2. Full moon occurred Tuesday, March 27, 31 AD (Tuesday March 23, 34 AD was quite late). Christ celebrated Passover Tuesday night, on a full moon. The following daytime, Wednesday, March 28, 31 AD, He was crucified. 3 days and 3 nights later as Christ Himself specified, He rose from the tomb on early Saturday morning.

Therefore, only a Tuesday full moon fulfills Biblical specification relative to the Passover celebration of the Lord just before His crucifixion.

In Christ our Lord and Savior,

Samie

[Samie]

What a sight to see astronomical data corroborating Scriptural pronouncements. Truly, the heavens declare the glory of God and the firmament shows His handywork!

Both Scriptures and astronomical data working hand in hand to expose the Sunday resurrection lie!

[Samie]

I propose, contributors to clubadventist, we boycott this thread.

Have we not had ENOUGH of Samie's NONSENSE? !

Thanks for violating your own pronouncement: posting on this thread is your way of boycotting it.

And boycott is your only recourse because the truth you dislike stares down at your face from the heavens. And you just have nothing to refute the truth this thread brings.

Your belief in a Thursday crucifixion is belief in a lie. And this thread exposes that lie along with the Sunday resurrection lie.

Boycott this thread, as you wish. But the truth this thread brings will haunt you day and night.

[Samie]

The belief that Passover coincided with the weekly Sabbath in the crucifixion week is devoid of Scriptural nor astronomical proof. There is no concurring verse in the Bible that sheds light on the claim that "high day" means Passover coincided with the weekly Sabbath.

That Christ celebrated Passover on a full moon is beyond dispute. The Passover He celebrated was right on time and did not coincide with the weekly Sabbath. This is the best evidence the term "high day" does not mean Passover coincided with the weekly Sabbath.

[Samie]

This verse likewise exposes the Sunday resurrection lie:

Quote:

Mark 8:31 And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.

If Christ was crucified Friday then how can the Lord fulfill His own prophecy of rising AFTER 3 days, if the Sunday resurrection is not a lie?

Friday crucifixion is unbiblical, and Sunday resurrection is a lie.

As Scriptures had clearly described and corroborated by astronomical data, Christ was crucified Wednesday and after 3 days and 3 nights rose from the tomb on early Saturday morning.

Proof of fulfillment of Mark 8:31, from Wednesday Crucifixion:

Quote:

1 day after Wednesday is Thursday.

2 days after Wednesday is Friday.

Therefore: 3 days after Wednesday is Saturday.

Wednesday crucifixion and early Saturday morning resurrection fulfills Mark 8:31.

[Samie]

Belief that Christ rose on Saturday afternoon does not conform with the 3 days and 3 nights specification described by the Lord Himself in Mat 12:40.

If, as claimed, Christ rose on Saturday afternoon then the period from crucifixion to resurrection will be 4 days and 3 nights from Wednesday!

Only the Scriptural early Saturday morning resurrection from Wednesday crucifixion fits the 3 days and 3 nights specification.

Let's count:

Quote:

daytime Wednesday = day 1

nighttime Wednesday = night 1

daytime Thursday = day 2

nighttime Thursday = night 2

daytime Friday = day 3

nighttime Friday = night 3 (which extends until early Saturday morning before sunrise)

[Samie]

Neither does the Friday crucifixion-based Sunday resurrection lie fulfill Mark 8:31 and Matt 12:40 specifications. And through mistranslation of Mark 16:9, which explicitly tells of a Sabbath resurrection, but translated to favor the Sunday resurrection lie, the world was made to believe in this lie now exposed.

But many, even silently, will accept the truth.

[phkrause]

Gerhard, everyone is entitled to there opinion, and that's all this is an opinion, period.

[Samie]

Alright; then I suppose I shall have to once again, counter with the Scriptures those surmisings of a desperate mind seeking recognition by and applaud from men.

Samie's is not just an opinion. God knows!

Yes, GE. Mine is not just an opinion: God wants you to know it's the truth.

And I don't seek recognition from men. Please, far from it. Just counter from Scriptures, if you think you can, the truth that came from Scriptures.

Thursday crucifixion with its late Saturday afternoon resurrection or Friday crucifixion with its Sunday resurrection cannot be both proven from Scriptures nor could they be corroborated by astronomical data.

This thread provides both Scriptural and astronomical proof of a Wednesday crucifixion and early Saturday morning resurrection. You have all the time to refute it from Scriptures, if you can.

Unless you want to stick with your original plan of boycotting this thread.

[Samie]

This will be all I shall have to say on any EXTRA-Biblical information or misinformation in my FINAL refutation of Samie of clubadventist’s confused but persistent deceptive inconsistencies.

Your Thursday Crucifixion is based on new-moon sighting, which is at most, a very, very poor proof if not a non-proof of your position. How would you know when the official crescent observer at Jerusalem may have seen the new moon? SURMISE? ASSUME? PRESUME? And base on your SURMISING and ASSUMTPION and PRESUMPTION, make the conclusion the Lord was crucified Thursday?

Compare your article with how I showed Scriptural narrative being corroborated by astronomical data on the occurrence of the full moon. Full moon occurrences released by the NASA are indisputable, brother. Unlike your SURMISING on crescent visibility to mark the official start of Nisan and from that SURMISING arrive at a SURMISED Nisan 14 from which you based your SURMISED conclusion of a Thursday crucifixion.

You never said a word against the full moon celebration of Christ, why? Because it is solidly based on Scriptures. How about your crescent sighting? Purely based on SURMISING, ASSUMPTION & PRESUMPTION.

My presentation is to you but "persistent deceptive inconsistencies", but which you NEVER tried to refute? What you did instead is show your contrived proof based on the SURMISED, ASSUMED & PRESUMED sighting of the crescent at Jerusalem's horizon.

Try again, brother. You failed miserably in your first attempt at refuting the solid Biblical PROOF of a Wednesday crucifixion and early Saturday morning resurrection this layman presented, backed by indisputable astronomical data from NASA whose precise calculations placed the first man on the moon.

AD 30 crucifixion? I had presented Biblical proof on the impossibility of a 30 AD crucifixion. Again, Christ was baptized 28 AD. Refute that based on solid Biblical evidence you think you have.

My evidence for a 28 AD baptism of Christ is the 15th year of Tiberius reign as emperor recorded in Luke 3:1, 21. History records show that Tiberius reign started in 14 AD. His 15th year as emperor, therefore, is 28 AD. After his baptism, there were 3 Passover feasts he attended as recorded by John, the last one being the Passover right before His crucifixion. If you claim that this last Passover feast was the one in 30 AD, then the Lord, baptized in 28 AD, only attended 2 Passover feasts after His baptism, one at 29 AD and the last at 30 AD. This is against Scriptures because, John records 3 Passover feasts attended by the Savior.

Your Thursday, AD 30 theory, is unscriptural.

[12tribes]

Notice that these texts have 3 days , preparation, Sabbath and the first day.

Luke 23:54-56

(54) and that day was the preparation, and the Sabbath drew on.

(55) And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid.

(56) and they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the Sabbath day according to the commandment.

Luke 24:1

(1) now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.

[Samie]

Originally Posted By: Samie

My evidence for a 28 AD baptism of Christ is the 15th year of Tiberius reign as emperor recorded in Luke 3:1, 21. History records show that Tiberius reign started in 14 AD. His 15th year as emperor, therefore, is 28 AD.

I don’t know where you received schooling, but where I grew up (in ‘dark Africa’), we learned in grade 1 that 14 plus 15 = 29. And that we were taught right through school and even in the maths class and in graphics, that 14 on the ‘-’ side of 0, plus 15 on the ‘+’ side of 0 = 29.

Poor arithmetic; worse exegesis. That is, Samie.

Looks like you were not listening to your teacher. Or were you absent then? Here again how 28 AD is 15th year of Tiberius reign from 14 AD, the first year of Tiberius' reign as emperor.

14 AD - 1st year

15 AD - 2nd year

16 AD - 3rd year

17 AD - 4th year

18 AD - 5th year

19 AD - 6th year

20 AD - 7th year

21 AD - 8th year

22 AD - 9th year

23 AD - 10th year

24 AD - 11th year

25 AD - 12th year

26 AD - 13th year

27 AD - 14th year

28 AD - 15th year

If arithmetic is a reflection of exegesis, you know whose exegesis stinks.

Think, GE, think.

Granting that your wrong arithmetic is correct that the 15th year of Tiberius' reign is 29 AD, what propelled you into concluding that 30 AD was the last passover feast of Christ? How could that be possible when the 30 AD passover feast was but the first passover feast after Christ's baptism if indeed it were true He was baptized 29 AD as you seem to suggest?

How can you reconcile that with the 3 passover feasts attended by the Lord after His baptism as recorded by John?

Yes, arithmetic and exegesis appear to be really related in your case.

Your Thursday crucifixion theory coupled with late Saturday resurrection is unscriptural, being a product of _ _ _ _ _ exegesis evidenced by _ _ _ _ arithmetic.

[Samie]

Many who tried to calculate when Christ was crucified based their calculation on the possibility of when the young crescent was probably sighted by the official crescent observer at Jerusalem. But how could they know whether their guess is the actual date the crescent was sighted?

If the sighting came a day late, then Nisan 14 is likewise a day late. If the sighting is precise, but the guess is not, then the guessed Nisan 14 is out of synch with the real Nisan 14. Whichever way we look at it, the conclusion arrived at will be inconclusive.

Compare this with the actual full moon occurrence which can be precisely calculated forward or backward in time. The Lord did not have to rely on new moon crescent sighting reported by the crescent observer. He knows exactly when full moon will occur.

Baptized in 28 AD; attended 3 passover feasts after His baptism; the last passover feast must necessarily be the one in 31 AD. When was the first full moon in 31 AD after the spring equinox? NASA records show full moon was on Tuesday, March 27, 31 AD.

The Savior celebrated Passover right on schedule, on a full moon, Tuesday night; the following daytime, Wednesday, He was crucified. 3 days and 3 nights later, on early Saturday morning, He resurrected.

Take note that the above facts from astronomical data only corroborate what Scriptures say.

The Lord was crucified on a prosabbaton, or the day before sabbath. It was when the sabbath of the prosabbaton was past that the women bought spices said Mark, and that these spices were prepared Friday as per Luke. Therefore, Friday is the day that followed when the sabbath of the prosabbaton was past, telling us that that ceremonial sabbath occurred Thursday and that the prosabbaton was Wednesday, the day when our Savior was crucified.

[OzarkWoman]

I propose, contributors to clubadventist, we boycott this thread.

Have we not had ENOUGH of Samie's NONSENSE? !

So, you don't believe in freedom of speech?

[Lysimachus]

Unfortunately, for you Samie, your entire notion for the "impossibility of a non-Wednesday" crucifixion is flushed down the toilet when taking into consideration the rules of Postponement, for which you did not even so much as remotely address in any of your posts:

http://www.pickle-publishing.com/papers/harold-hoehner-70-weeks.htm

[Samie]

Originally Posted By: Samie

.....................

Compare this with the actual full moon occurrence which can be precisely calculated forward or backward in time.

...............

As Samie has told you, the first crescent is "Purely based on SURMISING, ASSUMPTION & PRESUMPTION". Of course, the full moon "can be precisely calculated forward or backward in time".

Newton's Moses, this Samie fellow!

GE, there is a world of difference between "sighting of the first crescent" and "the first crescent". It's the SIGHTING of the crescent, as guessed by your scholars, which was based on surmising; NOT the crescent itself. The crescent is the lighted part of the moon surface visible to the earth. It is part of the moon and hence not subject for surmising.

As with full moon occurrence, new moon conjunction (the instant when the azimuth of the moon equals the azimuth of the sun), can likewise be precisely calculated; but the SIGHTING of the crescent, which is already way past conjunction, cannot be based on mathematical computation, and depends entirely on the geographical location of the crescent observer. At conjunction, no LIGHTED part of the moon is visible from earth.

Lunisolar calendars start their months at the first SIGHTING of the young crescent moon, NOT on conjunction.

[Samie]

Unfortunately, for you Samie, your entire notion for the "impossibility of a non-Wednesday" crucifixion is flushed down the toilet when taking into consideration the rules of Postponement, for which you did not even so much as remotely address in any of your posts:

http://www.pickle-publishing.com/papers/harold-hoehner-70-weeks.htm

Lysimachus,

You are aware that the Rosh HaShanah Dehiyyot are applicable only to the Hebrew calendar, why ask me to address those rules of postponement in my presentation which utilized Julian dates?

My presentation is based on occurrence of the full moon, the date for which was calculated using Julian dates, not on the sighting of the crescent upon which you base your position.

It is the crescent-sighting based position that the solidly biblical full moon based position flushed down the drain.

Friday crucifixion is UNBIBLICAL and Sunday resurrection is a lie.

Scriptures clearly indicate a Wednesday crucifixion and an early Saturday morning resurrection, and astronomical data corroborate the truth from Scriptures.

The Savior celebrated Passover in its proper season, on a full moon. That specific full moon was on Tuesday March 27, 31 AD. He celebrated Passover with His disciples Tuesday night, a day ahead of the Jews, whose crescent observer may have seen the crescent a day late. He was crucified Wednesday March 28 and after 3 days and 3 nights in the heart of the earth, resurrected early Saturday morning, March 31, 31 AD.

No speculation, unlike crescent sighting; pure Biblical truth backed up by astronomical data. Yes, the heavens declare the glory of God, and the firmament shows His handiwork!

Any other objection, brother?

[Lysimachus]

Friday crucifixion is UNBIBLICAL and Sunday resurrection is a lie.

If are thinking we are about to budge Samie, you are dreaming. Your so called "evidence" is based on not only private interpretation, but also a fanciful imaginations of how you think the Greek should be interpreted, even though the world's greatest scholars are in direct opposition to you. They harder they climb, the harder they fall. As I've already stated, you are a stubborn man, unwilling to budge in face of all the evidence we place before you.

Your Jewish Calendar has no relation to the evidence presented, in light of the fact that the calculators, regardless of whether Julian or Gregarian, line with the Jewish Calendar showing that through the rules of Postponement, Friday is very possible to land on Friday, Nisan 14, in 31 A.D.

Your Wednesday Crucifixion is UNBIBLICAL and a Saturday resurrection is a lie. That is final.

Scriptures say NO SUCH THING. Your interpretation of the Greek is not accepted by the counsel of the brethren, for which there is safety.

[Lysimachus]

Ja, as I've stated before, you, Lysimachus, are a stubborn man, unwilling to budge in face of all the evidence placed before you … JUST LIKE SAMIE!

You are the only one in a boat all of your own, who is neither for us and neither for Samie. But in-between. My view goes along with the traditional interpretation held by this board, as well as the Adventist body.

And I'm the one that's "stubborn"? Don't make me laugh. DON'T MAKE ME LAUGH! lol

John317 has already taken the meticulous time to refute your arguments in previous posts and threads, so I do not feel the urge to repeat all that has been said, for we would simply be going back to round one.

Apparently, you're the "only one here who is not being stubborn", even though you're the only one in your own boat. It is hilarious.

[skyblue888]

I agree with your position Lysi but to state that it has to be the right one because it agrees with the traditional interpretation held by this board as well as by the Adventist body, is no proof. If that were the only evidence Jesus could not have been in the right since His teachings were often antagonistic to the traditional interpretations of the Sanhedrin board and the Jewish body. And the fact that one finds himself alone in holding a position is no evidence of being in the wrong. Jesus was alone and the Reformers, one by one, found themselves alone against the whole of "Christendom" but that did not make them wrong.

Luther said to them, "You have more reasons to fear because I am alone and you are many."

Anyhow, I find this topic to be one of many of the enemy's distractions from more important issues.

sky

[jasd]

>>I find this topic to be one of many of the enemy's distractions from more important issues.<<

Mk 16:9 Now when [Jesus] was risen early the first [day] of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.

As we know, the Greek mss did not utilize punctuations in the first century – such as the comma. Therefore, it remained for our translators to insert them where they were inclined – by way of their predispositions...

What if we were to rely upon Matthew 28:1 and insert the initial comma in Mark 16:9 where it properly belongs; that is,

Mk 16:9 Now when [Jesus] was risen, early the first [day] of the week he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.

…then, Writ harmonizes one with the other, Matthew and Mark. However, there remains the interpretation of proi prote sabbatou, which would then lend to the argument of it as establishing the first Sunday after crucifixion – as prote (unto, most, before {W&H}) is derived from protos, or as Strong’s would have it:

protos; #4413

1) first in time or place

a) in any succession of things or persons

2) first in rank

a) influence, honour

chief

c) principal

3) first, at the first

So, what would a literal meaning of proi prote sabbatou explicitly indicate?—given the correct comma placement… it becomes contentious, does it not?

Some would have it that there is an inferred or latent hemera/day before the genitive singular sabbatou rendering the phrase: ‘first day of Sabbath’ - which would remove its meaning from any correlation to the first of the Pentecostal Sabbaths, plural. Whether there is actually a latent ‘day’ inferred in the text – the important point is that sabbatou is a genitive and is singular - meaning that 'that Sunday' was 'the first (in succession) of Sabbath', which denotes 'the chief Sabbath'.

Linguistics may more formally demand a bit more, but one readily apprehends the gist of the matter.

Oh-oh…, every jot and tittle, yes?

[jasd]

>>Jasd, Strong’s gives you an option between 3 possibilities; he does not butter your sandwich on both sides. So it’s EITHER OR in the case of Mark 16:9; not biggest chancer takes all.<<

Per “option”: W&H, as well, gives 3 possibilities…, and other lexicons as well, yes? The biggest “chancer” of all is the substitutionary and unsupported ‘week’.

>>There is in fact, “an inferred or latent hemera/day before the genitive singular sabbatou rendering the phrase …” NOT, “first day of Sabbath”, but “First Day of the week”<<

I qualified with “Some would have it that there is an inferred or latent hemera/day before the genitive singular sabbatou…”; however, is there a rule limiting the latent only to hemera/day?

As to your proposition “First Day of the week” – I’ve made note of the fact that there exists no example of concurrence in Greek literature using sabbatou and ‘week’ interchangeably. So, one assumes that is rather more arbitrary – than not, yes?

>>---and this does not take into account or render the full story yet, because you have not made mention of Case. Case and Inflection in fact ‘linguistically’ and ‘formally’, ‘demand a bit more’ ---a significant ‘bit’, more steering your whole apple cart of “'the chief Sabbath”, over the cliff’s edge.<<

So then, how do you substantially translate proi prote sabbatou?—without the rather hopeless insertion of ‘week’ where there is no justification for it other than that later constructed by dogma and bias…, there are only the three words proi prote sabbatou. (per my use of “chief” – I could have just as easily used ‘first’, ‘principal’, etc – to convey the meaning or place of its succession)

>>Because taking every linguistic factor into account TOGETHER, you do not have to do with _ANY_ ‘interpretation’ mania, but with CLEAR AND EVIDENT AND UNAMBIGUOUS, SIMPLE, COMMON, _IDIOM_ which ‘renders’ the real and only meaning of the Greek in Mark 16:9, which is, “on, the First Day of the week”.<<

I gather from the above that you agree with John317 in insisting that though there must exist a 1st (or earlier) century ms substantiating the fact that though the Greek used hebdomas for the same periodicity of seven – those writing the Gospels (and NT) deliberately elected to forego hebdomas, instead wrote sabbatou. (“IDIOM” – was chanced upon only in later centuries – to shoehorn preferred dogma and bias – there being no evidence to speak otherwise)

That is whole cloth, Gerhard.

>>You people on this forum are masterful insulters. Besides with your many words and lofty wording, you insult and demean by pretending one – that is, I – hasn’t written a dead useless rotten intelligent word on this forum.<<

Sounds like a descriptive for the so-called juxtaposition of an idiomatic ‘week’ for sabbatou.

>>But let me tell you proud people here: God Almighty watches every thing you do and every thing you leave.<<

Indeed, all of us.

>>And while you people every day preach an investigative judgment going on in heaven in which Jesus Christ stands the True and Faithful Witness, I am telling you all, Every answer you give to this pauper’s papers OR ignoring of them you indulge in, is WEIGHED by HIM.<<

Don’t take things so personally. You’ve contributed much that I considered worthy of caching in My Documents. However, where wrong is evident – it should be parsed and corrected. One simply cannot make a silk purse from a sow’s ear.

There is nothing so egregious as attempting to pass off sabbatou as an idiomatic ‘week’. There is absolutely nothing to substantiate it other than later centuries dogma and bias. It simply will not pass the smell test.

[Samie]

Originally Posted By: Samie

Your Thursday Crucifixion is based on new-moon sighting, which is at most, a very, very poor proof if not a non-proof of your position. How would you know when the official crescent observer at Jerusalem may have seen the new moon? SURMISE? ASSUME? PRESUME? And base on your SURMISING and ASSUMTPION and PRESUMPTION, make the conclusion the Lord was crucified Thursday?

Compare your article with how I showed Scriptural narrative being corroborated by astronomical data on the occurrence of the full moon. Full moon occurrences released by the NASA are indisputable, brother.

Strange that God commanded Israel the _new_ moon should be a sabbath day and be “observed” and ‘feasted’, and NEVER, the full moon!

[Samie]

Originally Posted By: Samie

Friday crucifixion is UNBIBLICAL and Sunday resurrection is a lie.

If are thinking we are about to budge Samie, you are dreaming. Your so called "evidence" is based on not only private interpretation, but also a fanciful imaginations of how you think the Greek should be interpreted, even though the world's greatest scholars are in direct opposition to you. They harder they climb, the harder they fall. As I've already stated, you are a stubborn man, unwilling to budge in face of all the evidence we place before you.