Obama's Opening "Fiscal Cliff" Bid Seeks Debt Limit Hike, Stimulus

[bonnie]

This worked so well that past four years it is only common sense to do it again and again

Obama's Opening "Fiscal Cliff" Bid Seeks Debt Limit Hike, Stimulus

WASHINGTON | Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:21pm EST

(Reuters) - The Obama administration's opening bid on Thursday in negotiations to avert a year-end fiscal crunch included a demand for new stimulus spending and authority to unilaterally raise the U.S. borrowing ceiling, a Republican congressional aide said.

The proposal, made by Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner to congressional Republican leaders on Capitol Hill, was seen as offering little the Republicans could agree to and was greeted with laughter, the aide said.

"We can't move any closer to them because they're not even on our planet," the aide said. "It was not a serious proposal."

Obama and congressional Republicans are returning to the bargaining table to prevent across-the board tax increases and deep spending cuts, the so-called fiscal cliff, from taking effect next year.

The president wants Bush-era tax breaks to be extended for all but the wealthiest earners, but Republicans have balked at tax hikes of any kind.

In the maiden bargaining session, Geithner, the president's lead negotiator, proposed raising tax revenues by $1.6 trillion, congressional aides confirmed. That figure is in line with what Obama has said is necessary to achieve long-term deficit reduction of $4 trillion over 10 years.

The administration also sought at least $50 billion in new economic stimulus spending.

Obama's negotiators also sought the ability to raise the nation's borrowing limit unilaterally. Currently, Congress must approve an increase in the debt ceiling, and it was an impasse over that issue that brought the country perilously close to default in 2011.

The administration's proposal would put off across-the-board spending cuts for a year.

In exchange the administration agreed to make $400 billion in spending cuts to entitlement programs, an aide confirmed.

The White House had no comment on the details of the offer.

"The only thing preventing us from reaching a deal that averts the fiscal cliff and avoids a tax hike on 98 percent of Americans is the refusal of congressional Republicans to ask the very wealthiest individuals to pay higher tax rates," a White House official said.

[Dr. Shane]

If we could get a bi-partisan stimulus that could really do something good. We may actually pull out of this after all.

[Neil D]

It is said that the 6 multimillionaire of the Walmart family own enough money that is the equivalent of 30% of the lowest paid workers of our nation. If we focus our stimulus on those 6 people to spend on a daily basis, how much increase of the economy do you think they will stimulate ? Whereas, if 30% of the population were the focus of the stimulus, how much of the economy would be stimulated on a daily basis?

I'm just wondering here....Don't get defensive...

[phkrause]

It is said that the 6 multimillionaire of the Walmart family own enough money that is the equivalent of 30% of the lowest paid workers of our nation. If we focus our stimulus on those 6 people to spend on a daily basis, how much increase of the economy do you think they will stimulate ? Whereas, if 30% of the population were the focus of the stimulus, how much of the economy would be stimulated on a daily basis?

I'm just wondering here....Don't get defensive...

interesting thought

[bonnie]

quote=Neil D]It is said that the 6 multimillionaire of the Walmart family own enough money that is the equivalent of 30% of the lowest paid workers of our nation. If we focus our stimulus on those 6 people to spend on a daily basis, how much increase of the economy do you think they will stimulate ? Whereas, if 30% of the population were the focus of the stimulus, how much of the economy would be stimulated on a daily basis?

I'm just wondering here....Don't get defensive...

[bonnie]

Obama has already acknowledged that his planned tax increase the wealthy will slow economic activity,SO the president wants $255 billion in new spending.

Why not start with the obvious,actually have a budget,a real one,cut all unnecessary spending.

Stop the insanity called Obamacare and then see how much stimulus and new taxes is really needed.

Most rational human beings understand that you can not control debt by taking out a higher credit card balance,maxing it out and then doing it all over again

[Neil D]

Obama has already acknowledged that his planned tax increase the wealthy will slow economic activity,SO the president wants $255 billion in new spending.

Why not start with the obvious,actually have a budget,a real one,cut all unnecessary spending.

Stop the insanity called Obamacare and then see how much stimulus and new taxes is really needed.

Most rational human beings understand that you can not control debt by taking out a higher credit card balance,maxing it out and then doing it all over again

Are you sure you understand the economy, Bonnie?

The Government Accountability Office, which audits federal spending, has concluded that the national debt would rise precipitously if President Obama's health care legislation doesn't go into effect.

A report titled "The Federal Government's Long-Term Fiscal Outlook" states that several parts of the health plan "were designed to control the growth of health care costs. The full implementation and effectiveness of these cost-control provisions... would slow the growth in federal health care spending over the long term."

Most people understand that certain lifestyles will cost more in your later years than other lifestyles. And some don't know. You and I know that a meat based diet will result, among other things, a CABG surgury and all the cost leading up to that. Doctors know prevention is cheaper than cure. If you can pay the doctor for prevention check ups then, health care costs will drop over time. That is what Obamacare will do...

[OzarkWoman]

[bonnie]

Are you sure you understand the economy, Bonnie?

[bonnie]

My neighbor learned Obama's meaning behind the word "savings"

when confronted with what that "savings" cost him.

He dropped his employer insurance and purchased a family policy. It was the first time he sat down with a calculator and determined what "his free Dr" visits actually cost him under full coverage.

When he figured out he could have a large deductible and pay out of pocket for immunizations,regular Dr visits and prescriptions and still save over 1500.00 a year,it didn't take him long to stop believing in the tooth fairy

He was all enthused about Obamacare before he read the fine print,finding out the hidden details quickly turned him from an Obama supporter

[Neil D]

What you said is not necessarily true at all. Not everyone who eats meat will be sick in the latter years. That does not corralate at all.

[bonnie]

In what way is Obama care "a disaster"? specifics please....And please, don't show annadoctal evidence, ie some republican businessman who didn't vote for obama who claims his taxes gone up ...We don't know what his taxes were last year, and it only shows his bias against a black man....I offered,as an example, the government's Office of Accountability results, which did it's objective study ...

Is there some reason besides desperation that you want to insert race into this?

[bonnie]

There are those that believe every decision a business man makes is based on racism or excessive greed.

Small Business on Obamacare: No Reason to Hire or Invest

http://www.cnbc.com/id/48000806/Small_Business_on_Obamacare_No_Reason_to_Hire_or_Invest

I suppose it is possible that all quoted here are racists and the lack of hiring is due to racism,but those grounded in some sort of reality are not buying and they are not hiring.

I have been dealing with insurance companies because of the deadline for medicare recipients.Mine has gone up 20%,haven't been notified of my husbands as yet. Someone is going to pay for that "free wellness check for 145.00" compared to a Dr visit for a medicare payment of 45.00.

Someone is going to pay the cost of the young people still under daddy's wing

The insurance agent I worked with,a democrat BTW,that was so enthused over Obamacare,told me the same story I was hearing from all companies. "There isn't any free lunch and the more free stuff,the higher the cost to everyone" Funny how her perspective has changed,her husband had a stroke and was not as fortunate as my husband so she is the sole breadwinner.

Perspective clients are few and far between.They prefer to pay the fine.Her coverage involving her husband has gone up dramatically.Because of racism or a republican lying about his taxes??

My brother closed up a very successful business after a few sessions with his CPA following the election of Obama.

He was not planning on retiring anytime soon but changed his mind abruptly after that.

Was it racism? There were black and hispanics and white.

Is it racism when Dr's are stopping the practice of

accepting medicaid and medicare patients?

More accurately it is because people are looking at the cost

compared to their return.

[Neil D]

Is there some reason besides desperation that you want to insert race into this?

Let's see, Bonnie....you have only unfounded assertions against anything that comes from the democratic party...and since all the proposals on the table originally came from the republican party...that can't be it....

the only thing left is the evidence that white men don't want black men with power lording over them....can we say "KKK" or "skinheads" and a host of others who come from racial bias?

[bonnie]

Let's see, Bonnie....you have only unfounded assertions against anything that comes from the democratic party...and since all the proposals on the table originally came from the republican party...that can't be it....

the only thing left is the evidence that white men don't want black men with power lording over them....can we say "KKK" or "skinheads" and a host of others who come from racial bias?

Absolutely ludicrous.You can say whatever you wish. That does not give you some divine insight into the motives of others,however I am sure you don't agree. Unfounded? unemployment,food stamps,welfare,rise in medical premiums and no end in sight

No one that has gone to the sacrifice/risk/12-16 hours a day

and now says,the president is black I will cut back on my business.

Except maybe those that have never had the desire or motivation to own their own business and spend a lifetime of jealousy over those that do.

I do wish I lived in this strange world you inhabit when it comes time to take advantage of Obama savings as I pay my increased medical premiums.

Maybe the insurance agencies are all members of the KKK to.

They all have told me the same thing.That tooth fairy that you believe in is made possible by increased costs on others.

I will check the next notice of cancelled services from our local hospital to see if there is a KKK insignia.

Obviously the several local and US businesses cutting back hours and employees have been taken over by the KKK as well.

Businesses do not pull back because of the skin color of a president.Pathetic that is the only defense of this economy in shambles.If it weren't for racism what an economy we could have.

[bonnie]

My brother had a steel erection company for many years.Started

on a wing and a prayer.He and his wife worked six days a week,always 12 hour days,more often fourteen hours a day.

Went without many times to put it back into his business.

He was highly successful. When he realized where Obama would take him financially he closed down his business.That is the story of millions of businessmen.They are or were not successful because their business plan was to see how much they

could put in the hands of any president

If you are actually so ignorant of what it takes to start and

create a successful business that you think the skin color of a president is important you live in La,La land.

But if that makes you feel better about the economy and just exactly how bad it is,perhaps no one should deprive you of your fantasy

[Neil D]

Originally Posted By: Neil D

Let's see, Bonnie....you have only unfounded assertions against anything that comes from the democratic party...and since all the proposals on the table originally came from the republican party...that can't be it....

the only thing left is the evidence that white men don't want black men with power lording over them....can we say "KKK" or "skinheads" and a host of others who come from racial bias?

Absolutely ludicrous.You can say whatever you wish. That does not give you some divine insight into the motives of others,however I am sure you don't agree. Unfounded? unemployment,food stamps,welfare,rise in medical premiums and no end in sight

[bonnie]

You mean to tell me, your brother didn't like Obama, and because he was wealthy enough, he shut down his factory/business just to spite Obama....hmmmph...tell him his hatred of the president killed the jobs of his workers...

You know,I think you are absolutely incapable of responding in a honest manner.

The only place you find your made up version is in your post.

What I actually said was When he realized where Obama would take him financially he closed down his business

Only someone that lives in a artificially manufactured utopian world believes a employer signs on to a lifetime commitment by hiring someone.Employees can and do walk off the job at any given time,without regard to the lurch they leave the employer in.

And Yes,because he was wealthy enough when he realized the enormous tax burden he would have he closed up shop.

His hatred as you define it is not what killed the jobs.The president did that.

We live in a small but very busy town,the next town is similar but with a few thousand more population.With the exception of Wal-Mart ,Target and Home Depot it is made up of small businesses.Many that cannot close their door voluntarily are reducing their costs as fast as they can

The biggest push is below 30 hours a week.Even those that now or did provide insurance are pulling back.It isn't just insurance premiums but the many other taxes wrapped up in Obamacare. Some that did carry insurance have said,OOPs,to bad,you are now on your own.They have no idea if the insurance they now carry will be what Obama decides it should be or what penalty they would have to pay on top of the premiums.

Businesses do not become successful if they do not watch the bottom line.

Deciding you don't want to work harder to be further behind is common sense to people that live in a real world. But obviously in the bigoted jealous view of some they must all be racists,skinheads or KKK

But the only defense of Obama is to attack someone else.

Actually I think it is just a little "Just desserts" for those that voted for Obama.To bad the others have to pay more because of the "give me crowd"

I rather enjoy the picture of those same footing the bill for their own insurance or paying the fine

[LifeHiscost]

Received this in an email, not sure of its' authenticity but it sounds like Warren Buffet.

Quote:

Warren Buffet is asking everyone to forward this email to a minimum of twenty people on their address list; in turn ask each of those to do likewise.

In three days, most people in the U.S. will have the message.

This is one idea that really should be passed around.

We're ALL in this mess together ... it's up to us to fix it ... for our kids!

Read and pass on to 20 of your friends.

Warren Buffett, in a recent interview with CNBC,offers one of the best quotes about the debt ceiling ...

"I could end the deficit in 5 minutes," he told CNBC.

"You just pass a law that says that any time there is a deficit of more than 3% of GDP, all sitting members of Congress are ineligible for re-election."

The 26th amendment (granting the right to vote for 18 year-olds) took only 3 months and 8 days to be ratified! Why?

Simple! The people demanded it.

That was in 1971 - before computers, e-mail, cell phones, etc.

Of the 27 amendments to the Constitution, seven (7) took one (1) year or less to become the law of the land - all because of public pressure.

Warren Buffet is asking each addressee to forward this email to a minimum of twenty people on their address list; in turn ask each of those to do likewise. In three days, most people in The United States of America will have the message.

This is one idea that really should be passed around.

Congressional Reform Act of 2012

1. No Tenure/No Pension

A Congressman/woman collects a salary while in office and receives no pay when they're out of office.

2. Congress (past, present & future) participates in Social Security.

All funds in the Congressional retirement fund move to the Social Security system immediately. All future funds flow into the Social Security system, and Congress participates with the American people. It may not be used for any other purpose.

3. Congress can purchase their own retirement plan, just as all Americans do.

4. Congress will no longer vote themselves a pay raise.

Congressional pay will rise by the lower of CPI or 3%.

5. Congress loses their current health care system and participates in the same health care system as the American people.

6. Congress must equally abide by all laws they impose on the American people.

7. All contracts with past and present Congressmen/women are void effective 12/1/12.

The American people did not make this contract with Congressmen/women.

Congress made all these contracts for themselves.

Serving in Congress is an honor, not a career.

Serving in Congress is an honor, not a career.

The Founding Fathers envisioned citizen legislators, so ours should serve their term(s), then go home and back to work.

If each person contacts a minimum of twenty people then it will only take three days

for most people (in the U.S.) to receive the message.

Don't you think it's time ?

THIS IS HOW YOU FIX CONGRESS!

God blesses!

[phkrause]

Exactly.... but don't bet the farm that that will ever happen, no they'd rather take, take and than take some more as long as we continue to believe that they have our best interests at heart.

[bonnie]

Warren Buffet is an amazing man,isn't he? A man that does not like to be coddled in the amount of taxes he pays.So much so that he fought the IRS for years over unpaid taxes.

I would think all Obama supporters would be content now.

The only problem is so many are realizing that battle cry of tax the rich really means them.

Large corp. have the resources to battle and drag their way thru the enormous regulatory nightmare that is being created.That "rich abusive" small business man that appears rich on paper or at least shows 250,000.00 rich will bear the brunt.

All tho the constant refrain is the "evil corporations" they will be fine.The government will do for them what they have not been able to do for themselves.Crush their small business competition.

Oh how we hate Wal-Mart. Our favorite punching bag.Obama will fix them tho. Take a little more from them and hit the really rich,"the small business man". These are the people that are being hurt,contracting their businesses or closing up.

Higher insurance premiums are such a small part of the punch small businesses are taking thru Obamacare.

But not to worry,while we are closing them down,we managed to annoy the rich a little with an increase in taxes.A increase that will fund the government for eight days.That will teach them and get the economy moving