The Marriage Bed

[Woody]

Did Ellen White know about our current times when she said -

Quote:

“Nothing but the violation of the marriage bed can either break or annul the marriage vow.” AH 341

Or - is our prophet just old fashioned and outdated?

[Gail]

And certainly she spoke in an age when beating one's wife or children was considered nobody's business but the family's.

[Woody]

So - are you saying that she spoke only for her time and now ours?

[Gail]

Personally, I wouldn't judge a person on it BUT I do wish that marriages would try to work harder on working than they do now.

Our whole society is becoming disassociated- families, couples, churches, recreation. I don't foresee that facilitating marriages or most any other relationships.

[Gail]

Last night I watched a neat movie on the subject of divorce. It was a Persian film (in Persian/Farsi but overdubbed in French, English subtitles avail.)

It was a story of how the mother/wife left the family and it all fell apart.

That could be the story of many families. It can be argued that the system had already fallen apart by the time the D word is mentioned. But it impacts many more than just the couple.

[Woody]

Quote:

Personally, I wouldn't judge a person on it BUT I do wish that marriages would try to work harder on working than they do now.

Oh - I agree that we as humans - we should not judge ANYone on ANY behavior. I leave that to God through our prophet.

But I think she is clear on the issue of divorce. How many of us though want to ignore the clear word? The ease of divorce has destroyed many aspects of our community.

There are other options to divorce that need to be considered. There are legal ways to protect yourself and your family from an abusive spouse other than divorce.

Marriage is meant to be a one time privilege. All these easy ways out just destroy the family structure as we know it.

[Gail]

Agreed.

[JoeMo]

Quote:

Or - is our prophet just old fashioned and outdated?

Quote:

And certainly she spoke in an age when beating one's wife or children was considered nobody's business but the family's.

Quote:

So - are you saying that she spoke only for her time and now ours?

I would agree that EGW could have been speaking from her frame of reference (the late 19th century) when physical abuse in the family was nobody's business but the families. I don't think it was any different with Paul when he spoke of a woman's place in the church. I certainly hope that if EGW were alive today to witness the violence in our society, she would recognize a woman's or child's safety as a justifiable reason to leave a marriage.

I am concerned about a trend among young people where relationships are made or broken via email or text messages. There are certain things that require face-to-face communication. How impersonal to be intimately involved with someone solely by electronic means!

[Woody]

Quote:

she would recognize a woman's or child's safety as a justifiable reason to leave a marriage.

I'm afraid I have to disagree with you for the reasons in my above post.

I also believe that if the prophets instructions were from the Lord then knowledge of today and it's problems ... would be well aware of.

[Gail]

Quote:

I would agree that EGW could have been speaking from her frame of reference (the late 19th century) when physical abuse in the family was nobody's business but the families. I don't think it was any different with Paul when he spoke of a woman's place in the church. I certainly hope that if EGW were alive today to witness the violence in our society, she would recognize a woman's or child's safety as a justifiable reason to leave a marriage.

Woody might know better than me, but I think there WAS a time when she bawled out some abusive husband. Refresh my memory...

[M. T. Cross]

Woody, as someone that has been with his wife for 22 years, married for 20 I would have to agree that people through away marriages far to easily these days. Even while I was a teen I was the only one in my group that lived with both his parents.

That said, I really don't think that if a person lives with an abusive spouse that they should have to stick that out. I also think that they should have the chance at happiness and love again in their life. Abusers are breaking their marriage vows as surely as a cheater.

[JoeMo]

I was writing my post #586583 while you posted your #586581. I very much agree with you that ending a marriage is far too easy in today's society. That being said, I still maintain that there are more reasons than marital infidelity for justifiably ending a marriage. And ... that being said, I don't think that marital infidelity should always be a justification for ending a marriage. Once people make the vow for better or worse, they should still make every effort to honor that vow, regardless of the original conflict causing a couple to even consider divorcing. God himself says He hates divorce. Having been through one divorce, I hate it, too.

I know that somewhere EGW rebuked a person who was pushing for a couple to break up a second marriage because the first marriage was ended for reasons other than infidelity. She said no one has a right to interfere with someone else's life if they didn't know the whole story and all the circumstances.

What I have read of EGW, she sometimes wrote of how things should be in a perfect world; and at other times wrote about how things really are in the real world.

Sorry, Gail - I'm not sufficiently versed in EGW to refresh your memory.

[Gail]

No, no... I thought there was something toward an abusive husband, or to not force the wife to remain or something like that.

It sounds like homework for the weekend...

[Woody]

This quote from our prophet - is one of the quotes that even the most ardent conservative does not wish to agree with. They will wiggle and squirm and try to find a way out.

[Woody]

Gail. As I have mentioned - there are ways to deal with an abusive wife (or husband as the case may be). Leaving or having legal protection may be an option. But leaving does not have to mean divorce.

[Gail]

No, it doesn't. I agree.

[Windsor]

Curious is to why we're discussing what Ellen White said and putting all the pressure on her for that comment. Was she not paraphrasing Christ?

[BobRyan]

Did Ellen White know about our current times when she said -

Quote:

“Nothing but the violation of the marriage bed can either break or annul the marriage vow.” AH 341

Or - is our prophet just old fashioned and outdated?

What determines when we listen to our prophet and when we don't?

However in this case I agree with those who say that the statement above is right out of the gospel of Matthew.

in Christ,

Bob

[bonnie]

Isn't EW outdated? Let's get rid of all that excess baggage.

The bible certainly needs rewriting.Pick out what we like,discard as antiquated what we don't and call this

Selected Messages for the 21st century

[M. T. Cross]

So let me get this straight........

Joan and John get married and have a couple kids. John for whatever reason decides it is his right to smack the snot out of Joan as he deems needed. Joan has had enough and leaves John and gets a restraining order against him.

Now so far we are ok......

Now at a church function one week Joan meets Tim. Tim is a single successful guy that is kind and gentle. They really feel a pull to each other and have a ton in common. Same faith, Tim loves her kids etc. But Joan is still married to John and can't divorce him because the only way she can is if he sleeps with another woman. Sadly for Joan, John is a wack job and is still obsessed with her so he has not done that.

So Joan is denied a possible healthy relationship with a good man, her kids will continue to grow up with no father figure in their lives.

Seriously this makes sense?

Punish Joan cause John is a psycho?

Truly of all the things I have not understood about the SDA belief system this one tops it all!

[Gerr]

Did Ellen White know about our current times when she said -

Quote:

“Nothing but the violation of the marriage bed can either break or annul the marriage vow.” AH 341

Or - is our prophet just old fashioned and outdated?

Is not endangering your wife's very life just as serious or even a more serious violation of the marriage bed and vow?

[Woody]

Quote:

Is not endangering your wife's very life just as serious or even a more serious violation of the marriage bed and vow?

You bring up a good question Gerry. I suppose we ought to ask God and Ellen White.

[Windsor]

Truly of all the things I have not understood about the SDA belief system this one tops it all!

This is not a unique SDA belief but rather is found in most Christian denominations.

[olger]

And certainly she spoke in an age when beating one's wife or children was considered nobody's business but the family's.

[Gibs]

Husbands Are to Be Thoughtful and Cheerful

Husbands, likewise, dwell with them with understanding, giving honor to the wife, as to the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life, that your prayers may not be hindered. 1 Peter 3:7, NKJV. {BLJ 207.1}

The husband should manifest great interest in his family. Especially should he be very tender of the feelings of a feeble wife. He can shut the door against much disease. Kind, cheerful, and encouraging words will prove more effective than the most healing medicines. These will bring courage to the heart of the desponding and discouraged, and the happiness and sunshine brought into the family by kind acts and encouraging words will repay the effort tenfold. {BLJ 207.2}

The husband should remember that much of the burden of training his children rests upon the mother, that she has much to do with molding their minds. This should call into exercise his tenderest feelings, and with care should he lighten her burdens. He should encourage her to lean upon his large affections and direct her mind to heaven, where there is strength and peace and a final rest for the weary. He should not come to his home with a clouded brow, but should with his presence bring sunlight into the family and should encourage his wife to look up and believe in God. Unitedly they can claim the promises of God and bring His rich blessing into the family.—Testimonies for the Church, vol. 1, pp. 306, 307. {BLJ 207.3}

Many a husband and father might learn a helpful lesson from the carefulness of the faithful shepherd. Jacob, when urged to undertake a rapid and difficult journey, made answer: “The children are tender, and the flocks and herds with young are with me: and if men should overdrive them one day, all the flock will die. . . . I will lead on softly, according as the cattle that goeth before me and the children be able to endure.” {BLJ 207.4}

In life’s toilsome way let the husband and father “lead on softly,” as the companion of his journey is able to endure. Amidst the world’s eager rush for wealth and power, let him learn to stay his steps, to comfort and support the one who is called to walk by his side.—The Ministry of Healing, p. 374. {BLJ 207.5}

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.